[Design with Terry]Wurkkos TS32 15000+ Lumens Flashlight Concept

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Wurkkos Terry
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kokosnh wrote:

I agree with ArtieT59 :
- 3 × 21700 >> then 4 × 18650  (and offer yours 21700 rechargeable battery 5000mAh 3C 15A in bundle to this light)
- sst20 in Hi Cri + sft40 is good (4000k tint for sst20 should be more universal, but well we have spare power, and 2 × 6 2700/4000K can still be bright by themselves)
- Anduril 2 
- a 1/4 × 20 threaded hole on both sides, so you can mount handle to it, and have switch face to you (right-handed / left-handed). I see something on one side, but don’t know if it’s it. 
- please include HANDLE in box, or atleast to buy separately. 
- deeper fins needed, ass always on this type of light (i want to mount it on handle, and use on HIGH for long)
 TYPE C charging and discharging (YES 3A, or PD, it’s 3 × 21700)
backlit button, and use your normal rubber switch, no plastic as in TS21. 

For the Beam distance ramp, if you go for it, make sure it’s not 100% fold – 0% throw, to 50% fold – 50% throw, to 0% fold – 100% throw, by one 1H. 
But just adjusting the brightness for fold and throw separately by 1H, 2C for changing between changing fold and throw brightness distribution. 

Here I was thinking that there are no good and fun tin can flashlights, and you just make me want to buy one.

Ps. I want to see somebody mounting MATEMINCO fan handle to it  <img src= " />

Hi kokosnh, not sure if there is any conflict with Anduril II ui, but /adjusting the brightness for fold and throw separately by 1H, 2C for changing between changing fold and throw brightness distribution/ sounds great.

We have improved the fins already, the previous design with shallower fins, we will still look chance to improve it. Hopefully we can see it in the final product.

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Tangra
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I would suggest something similar to Acebeam X45. 4 x XHP70.2, but with deeper reflector for better throw.
With USB charging port and removable handle.

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Streamtronics wrote:

Wurkkos Terry wrote:
I know there is a tint ramp in the Anduril II, thinking it should be okay to change that part into Beam distance ramp. How do you guys think about it? Is there someone I can contact to do so? Your help will be very appreciated.

Anduril tint ramping should work, but it should be modified so that in the middle it actually powers both channels at 100%, which should be possible by configuring TINT_RAMPING_CORRECTION properly. Or at least it should reach nearly 100% on both channels. In my opinion it also should stop at the “middle” (where both channels are fully on) and do a short “blip”, then continue ramping the other channel down. I see a potential issue with the tint ramping feature as it ramps linearly between the two channels, which is what you want for tint, but maybe not for flood/throw. Can’t think of an easy way to make it more logarithmic either for now. Also with tint ramping it doesn’t allow for multiple power channels per “tint” channel, so it’s not all that easy. Tint ramping also only works with 8 bit resolution I believe, which makes the single channel issue even worse (though I did modify the code before to run tint ramping with 16 bit for my custom LT1 firmware wich fakes higher resolution). Question is, should the driver design follow the firmware that’s availabe, or should firmware be written/modified to follow a chosen driver design… 

Streamtronics, thanks for your comment, I will let you know, let our engineer do his work first.

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Forsyth P. Jones wrote:
I think for a light as different as this, it’s reasonable to expect to customize Anduril for it. I do believe the newer AVR processors (AVR-1) have higher resolution PWM than the old ones did, so that might help with the tint ramping. There was also an interesting mod that tterev3 did, using leds of differing color temperatures independently controlled, to be able to adjust the overall mix coming out of a light. Tterev3 did amazing miniaturization to make that happen, but in a light this size it would be a lot easier.

It seems to me, barring complete insanity, people aren’t really going to care what this light costs. So there’s no reason to leave out anything that makes the light better, just to save a few cents or dollars here or there. Build it and they will come. I’d even consider a heat pipe cooling system like on graphics cards, since people are so interested in long runtime on turbo. For this big a light, a carrying handle does seem like a good idea, and it could have a radiator and fan connected to the heat pipe.

That said, I myself have never wanted super bright bursts for more than a few seconds at a time. But I’m not really the market for monster lights like this.

Agree with you. Better make something great instead of piece of metal because of budget.

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dthrckt
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gt-fc40 is high cri domeless xhp70. roughly half the output/watt. https://budgetlightforum.com/node/68899

Please include a holster (even if it’s optional at additional cost) that completely covers the light and fits well.

story
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Can you guys design a mini cross bow that can mount to the side camera hole?

kokosnh
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Wurkkos Terry wrote:
ArtieT59 wrote:

gchart wrote:
ch1ir wrote:
Agreed on high cri warmer tints, I would prefer Xhp35 in the center. It is still superior to the sft in my opinion. Thank you Lee Terry please keep us informed
Ehh, I don't have any problems with the XHP35 but that's a 12-volt only LED which would mean a boost driver. Not that Wurkkos couldn't do that, but it would complicate things for sure. For me, I don't see any problems in using the SFT40 (or an Osram).

 

agreed, for as much as I like the xhp35 HI 4000k (one of my favorite emitters), the sft40 is equally as impressive. And I would rather have the added numerous options of 3 volt emitters for that center led. Xhp35 and gt fc40 are the only 12v emitters I can think of that are worth using.  

What is GT FC40? Very curious.


it's LED emitter , GT-FC40, 12V, 5000K - 5500K 90CRI
https://budgetlightforum.com/node/68689 

the problem is it's 12V. 

Ps. I like that the tube looks like it have lots of small fins, does making them deper have any considerable impact on cooling, or on the heat transfer to the hand?

I like the idea of purchased separately optional difuzer in a form of lantern, to screw in place of strike bezel. Or do some threads on outside, so you can screw difuzer directly to the flashlight. So that it can be used outdoor and indoor. And then, with difuze, the tint changing and 6 x 2700K SST-20 and 6 x 4000K SST-20 would make more sense for me. I was waiting for sofirn BLF LT1 lantern version on multi 21700 cells, but that could be end, if this have option to buy separately an additional difuzer.

 

 

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Im very pleased to see sft40 in this light. What is the depth of reflector used in middle?

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story wrote:
Can you guys design a mini cross bow that can mount to the side camera hole?

Can you send a photo to help me understand?

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I believe your 12 SST-20’s with almost no reflector are going to create a wall of light and glare. This would actually inhibit some of the throw from the center LED as to what the user could actually see. Those 12 LEDs are in a very short range of usefulness. I believe you would be better served with 4 evenly spaced LEDs such as XHP70’s or SFT40’s. The dimensions look good. As others have pointed out larger fins and maybe a little more mass.

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I really like the look of this. If sales go well then you could offer different LED options. For example as well as 12 SST20 + 1 SFT40 you could offer:

  • 12 Nichia E21A (or 219B) and 1 SST20. Not so much output but warm white and high CRI
  • 12 Samsung LH351D and 1 Osram Boost HX. Should give some more output and throw.
  • 12 XHP50.2 and 1 SBT90.2. This would require a different MCPCB and maybe different reflector but it would be very fun! LOL Similar to the Acebeam X80, which fits loads of XHP50.2 LEDs in a small space
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i think by backlit button that there are small auxiliary lights behind the switch that light up the rubber button, as seen in a D4v2 or an sp36.

correct if i am wrong

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Wurkkos Terry wrote:
ArtieT59 wrote:

I just read this on Reddit, and this is my post for thoughts. 



This is exciting! I love the design! Here are my thoughts:


- great layout using sst20 & sft40. Please offer sst20 in Hi Cri, 2700k option too!



  • my vote is 3 × 21700


- Consider – two mcpcbs. (1) mcpcb for the single center emitter and a Second mcpcb for the 12 outside emitters (gives buyers options for modding the inside emitter to different footprint 3V LEDS – osram, sbt90, etc.)


- Anduril 2 or Narsil UI only (narsil is a great UI for high power lights that do not “require” all of the extras that edc lights have like auxiliary LED controls, and narsil still have battery check which is VITAL)


- Needs a 1/4 × 20 threaded hole


- please include HANDLE in box


- please consider RETAINING RING for driver not glued in.


- back lit button


- consider COLORS- even if just DARK GRAY or SAND / TAN


very excited to see this light come to fruition, if it’s a beast, I’ll defintely buy more than one! Modding capabilities would be AWESOME.

This light will use two mcpcbs for sure.
There is a tripot socket in the neck next to the switch, not sure if that is the mentioned 1/4 ×20 treaded hole.
What is the back lit button you mean?
Handle is addable, looking to design one to sell seperately as accessory, so members here can choose to have or not to have according to their demand.

Thanks for your suggestions at the end.

i think by backlit button that there are small auxiliary lights behind the switch that light up the rubber button, as seen in a D4v2 or an sp36.

correct if i am wrong

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texas shooter wrote:
I believe your 12 SST-20’s with almost no reflector are going to create a wall of light and glare. This would actually inhibit some of the throw from the center LED as to what the user could actually see. Those 12 LEDs are in a very short range of usefulness. I believe you would be better served with 4 evenly spaced LEDs such as XHP70’s or SFT40’s. The dimensions look good. As others have pointed out larger fins and maybe a little more mass.

I think you have a good point, but to me this merely proves that the ability to use both channels at the same time is not important. The two sets of LEDs are designed for different things, flood vs throw, and there is no application when one would need to run both. There are some two channel lights where I might want to run both at the same time, as for tint ramping, but this is not one of them.

IMO this is a solution in search of a problem. Keep stock Anduril II with two separate channels exactly as is.

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mbp wrote:
texas shooter wrote:
I believe your 12 SST-20’s with almost no reflector are going to create a wall of light and glare. This would actually inhibit some of the throw from the center LED as to what the user could actually see. Those 12 LEDs are in a very short range of usefulness. I believe you would be better served with 4 evenly spaced LEDs such as XHP70’s or SFT40’s. The dimensions look good. As others have pointed out larger fins and maybe a little more mass.

I think you have a good point, but to me this merely proves that the ability to use both channels at the same time is not important. The two sets of LEDs are designed for different things, flood vs throw, and there is no application when one would need to run both. There are some two channel lights where I might want to run both at the same time, as for tint ramping, but this is not one of them.

IMO this is a solution in search of a problem. Keep stock Anduril II with two separate channels exactly as is.


What about using individual tir’s like the outer 3 leds on the k9.3 has?

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Wurkkos Terry wrote:
Terry needs Toykeeper’s help

In the future, if you want to contact a specific person on BLF, the private message system is much more effective. The only reason I saw this thread was because someone else notified me about it.

So… I responded in a PM.

One detail which would really benefit from public feedback though… Do people actually want to ramp smoothly between flood and throw, or would it be better to switch instantly? The tint ramp takes several seconds from end to end, and that might get annoying. I’m not sure about anyone else, but I usually want flood or throw, not something in-between. And I usually want to switch quickly from one to the other.

But that’s just me. What are everyone’s thoughts on this?

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Oh, also… I’m guessing this light uses a contact ring like a Q8, but that requires button-top cells… and I don’t think I’ve ever seen an unprotected button-top 21700. Do people already have button-top 21700 cells laying around, or would they need new cells for a light like this?

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Personally I don’t think a smooth ramp between flood and throw makes much sense, but a 3 steps ramp : flood, flood+throw, throw, yes maybe.

Another option is a flood+throw turbo, for the absolute max output, maybe accessible with 2H or something else, regardless of the flood/throw position.

And I was thinking of something similar for tint ramping, if I understand correctly, the middle tint power can be configured between 100 and 200 % (TINT_RAMPING_CORRECTION). But rather than having an uneven output tint ramp, you could have a turbo with 100% on both channel, so, middle tint, regardless of the position on the tint ramp, again by a different press than 2C, or maybe replacing 2C because I’m not sure if the tint of the turbo is really important anyway. Then as it thermally throttles down it goes back to the position on the tint ramp (that might be complicated to implement? )
On a flashlight that has 2 relatively powerfull channels that might not sound necessary, but with low power channels, say 2×(2xE21As) driven at 2.5A for each channels, if you’re on the cool side for example and go to turbo, that’ll only be 2.5A which leaves a bit to be desired for a turbo, 5A that’s more like it.
(Sorry this is slightly off topic, plus there isn’t any Anduril tint ramping flashlights yet)

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Seems like nitecores hu60 flood/throw interface could definitely be as useful in a flashlight. It could be nice, in the woods, where terrain and vegetation changes to be able to adjust the amount of both. But, I think it would go unused unless there are at least 2 buttons and a very easy interface

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Ramping between flood and throw is a terrible idea, IMO. Most will want instant access to flood or throw. I would hate to have to ramp through flood to get to throw and vice versa. While Anduril can be modified for use with two separate channels, Wurkkos already has the physical driver from the HD20 that has everything needed aside from a few Anduril bells and whistles. My suggestion is to work with Toykeeper and develope an Anduril type software for the HD20 driver. You could use it in the new dual led headlight as well as this one. No need to reinvent the hardware wheel. Just design new treads for the tire. A simple solution not requiring new driver hardware to be designed.

As for the LEDs, great choice in SST20 and SFT40. Just make the flood available in 2700k and 4000k and the SFT40 in 5000k and 6400k. Like a warm edition 2700k/5000k and a neutral edition with 400k/6400k. LH351D would be a great option as well for the flood with a little more output and, I think, less heat compared to SST20.

You’ve taken care of the finning and everything else. 3*21700 cells. By backlit buttons they mean the switches with led backlighting that you already use. If you keeper helps design the UI, you could use RGB in the switch if the hardware allows. Even without RGB in the switch, you could use the green & red LEDs you have already to blink out the exact battery voltage instead of the main LEDs. Whole voltage in green and tenths in red. Two step lockout like in anduril2 should be a must. Click for moon and click hold for low. I love that feature.

Just keep things simple. Don’t overcomplicate and work with what you already have. New code for existing hardware is always the best choice when it already does what you need.

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JohnnyMac wrote:
Ramping between flood and throw is a terrible idea, IMO. Most will want instant access to flood or throw. I would hate to have to ramp through flood to get to throw and vice versa. While Anduril can be modified for use with two separate channels, Wurkkos already has the physical driver from the HD20 that has everything needed aside from a few Anduril bells and whistles. My suggestion is to work with You keeper and develope an Anduril type software for the HD20 driver. You could use it in the new dual led headlight as well as this one. No need to reinvent the hardware wheel. Just design new treads for the tire. A simple solution not requiring new driver hardware to be designed.

As for the LEDs, great choice in SST20 and SFT40. Just make the flood available in 2700k and 4000k and the SFT40 in 5000k and 6400k. Like a warm edition 2700k/5000k and a neutral edition with 400k/6400k. LH351D would be a great option as well for the flood with a little more output and, I think, less heat compared to SST20.

You’ve taken care of the finning and everything else. 3*21700 cells. By backlit buttons they mean the switches with led backlighting that you already use. If you keeper helps design the UI, you could use RGB in the switch if the hardware allows. Even without RGB in the switch, you could use the green & red LEDs you have already to blink out the exact battery voltage instead of the main LEDs. Whole voltage in green and tenths in red. Two step lockout like in anduril2 should be a must. Click for moon and click hold for low. I love that feature.

Just keep things simple. Don’t overcomplicate and work with what you already have. New code for existing hardware is always the best choice when it already does what you need.

This is the answer we need, thank you Johnny Mac, you are an amazing human

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The HD20 interface would be nice if free from the known bugs. It is essential that mode memory works reliable on both channels. Triple click for switching is a good choice.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

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I seem to be the odd one out here but I would probably make use of different flood/throw combinations. Sometimes you want lots of throw but need a little more light at your feet.

One option would be to allow this to be user configurable, like brightness ramp speed. This makes Anduril more complicated, so doesn’t come without down sides.

The you could set it like this:

  • 0 – immediate switch between flood and throw
  • 1 – still only flood and throw available but a quick smooth transition between the 2 for effect
  • 2+ – slow down ramp speed so you can pick any combination
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the whole discussion about the beam ramp is because

Wurkkos Terry wrote:
I know there is a tint ramp in the Anduril II, thinking it should be okay to change that part into Beam distance ramp. How do you guys think about it? Is there someone I can contact to do so? Your help will be very appreciated.

I don't have any 2 channel flashlight, if I want to see something far, I just go for TURBO. So from my perspective it was ment just as digital zoom feature, and we just set it once to our liking (not something for active use).

We must first discuss if we want 
  1. no beam ramp, all led go 100%
  2. some implementation of beem ramp, it could be even instant on 3 levels, 100% flood - 0% throw, to 50% flood - 50% throw, to 0% flood - 100% throw, to preserve flood and throw working at the same time.
  3. beam ramp, by ramping.
  4. two channel flashlight, and instant switch between throw and flood. 

    I'm good with all, it will just change, if I use this feature actively, or just one in a while, depending on where I want to use it.  
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ToyKeeper wrote:
Wurkkos Terry wrote:
Terry needs Toykeeper’s help

In the future, if you want to contact a specific person on BLF, the private message system is much more effective. The only reason I saw this thread was because someone else notified me about it.

So… I responded in a PM.

One detail which would really benefit from public feedback though… Do people actually want to ramp smoothly between flood and throw, or would it be better to switch instantly? The tint ramp takes several seconds from end to end, and that might get annoying. I’m not sure about anyone else, but I usually want flood or throw, not something in-between. And I usually want to switch quickly from one to the other.

But that’s just me. What are everyone’s thoughts on this?

My vote is instant switching. I see the appeal of being able to ramp between them but I think the slow ramp would be annoying and instant switching would be better.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
Oh, also… I’m guessing this light uses a contact ring like a Q8, but that requires button-top cells… and I don’t think I’ve ever seen an unprotected button-top 21700. Do people already have button-top 21700 cells laying around, or would they need new cells for a light like this?

I think the best solution is to include a flat top cell adapter like Convoy does with the 4×18A and 3×21A.

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dave1010 wrote:
I really like the look of this. If sales go well then you could offer different LED options. For example as well as 12 SST20 + 1 SFT40 you could offer:
  • 12 Nichia E21A (or 219B) and 1 SST20. Not so much output but warm white and high CRI
  • 12 Samsung LH351D and 1 Osram Boost HX. Should give some more output and throw.
  • 12 XHP50.2 and 1 SBT90.2. This would require a different MCPCB and maybe different reflector but it would be very fun! LOL Similar to the Acebeam X80, which fits loads of XHP50.2 LEDs in a small space

Thanks Dave for the great suggestions, hopefully it will go well with support from you guys.

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I’m impressed Terry. The first pass design is pretty well executed IMO. I really think the SST20 and SFT40 combo is the right one. Arguments could be made for LH351D, most notably the availability of 5700K 90CRI to better match the SFT, but the 3535 footprint allows this to be an option later.

Only idea I’m going to throw out there is a dual switch UI. One for throw, one for flood. Both with the same FC11 or Anduril UI. Already have two output channels, why not have two input channels? Curious what others think here. I can see it both ways.

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tactical_grizzly wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
Oh, also… I’m guessing this light uses a contact ring like a Q8, but that requires button-top cells… and I don’t think I’ve ever seen an unprotected button-top 21700. Do people already have button-top 21700 cells laying around, or would they need new cells for a light like this?

I think the best solution is to include a flat top cell adapter like Convoy does with the 4×18A and 3×21A.

!https://grizzlysreviews.files.wordpress.com/2021/08/batteries.jpg?w=2048!

That is really helpful, and we can also supply button top 21700, then we don’t have any issue with the battery.
Thanks Toykeeper for pointing out this potential issue, and tactical_grizzly for solution to solve.

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Joined: 04/08/2021 - 04:25
Posts: 104

Hi all, thanks for your constructive post/suggestion, now I am chating with Toykeeper about the throw/flood ramping, maybe not smooth from throw to flood, but ThrowOnly—-FloodOnly—-Throw&Flood(3 emit styles) similar to tint ramp of LT1 Lantern, once emit style is selected, you can ramp from 1% output to 100%(this part is still unknown, should be workable, but still need confirm from ToyKeeper), feel free to comment how you think about this.

Please join us, comment, speak out your idea, and let’s make another great light to this community.

Hereby, I would like to thank Toykeeper a lot, words can not express well.

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