Thrower LEDs? GT-FC40, SFT40, SBT70, SBT90, CSLPM1.TG, CSLNM1.F1, CULNM1.TG, CULPM1.TG, XHP90 (70, 50, 35), LEP...

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xevious
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Thrower LEDs? GT-FC40, SFT40, SBT70, SBT90, CSLPM1.TG, CSLNM1.F1, CULNM1.TG, CULPM1.TG, XHP90 (70, 50, 35), LEP...

So the “Game of Throwers” is really gearing up these days. So many choices in long range thrower flashlights, featuring many different emitters. It’s really mind boggling for those not intimately in the emitter game. I’ve searched around and haven’t found a summary description of these emitters and their inherent qualities—what differentiates them from each other. Can anyone here point to a source or take a stab at it here?

GT-FC40, SFT40, SBT70, SBT90, CSLPM1.TG, CSLNM1.F1, CULNM1.TG, CULPM1.TG, XHP90 (70, 50, 35), XP-P, LEP

I imagine there are some characteristic differences in available temperatures, throw vs. spill, voltage, etc. And of course, price. AFAIK, LEP being the most expensive (and more specialized—pencil throw, zero spill). And then of course, what brands are using them in what sized hosts.

Edited by: xevious on 09/02/2021 - 17:09
richbuff
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 I have taken a really big stab at SBT 90.2 as my favorite thrower emitter.  I have more than a few different lights with that emitter. Very small size lights, small, medium, large, and very large size lights with that emitter. With just a single emitter, in all different size lights, and also with multiple emitters in very small,  medium, large and very large size lights. All of the other emitters are either to floody or too under powered   to be my favorite throw emitter. SBT90.2 is the current King!

Rev 22:15

xevious
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richbuff wrote:
 I have taken a really big stab at SBT 90.2 as my favorite thrower emitter.  I have more than a few different lights with that emitter. Very small size lights, small, medium, large, and very large size lights with that emitter. With just a single emitter, in all different size lights, and also with multiple emitters in very small,  medium, large and very large size lights. All of the other emitters are either to floody or too under powered   to be my favorite throw emitter. SBT90.2 is the current King!
Thanks Rich, good to know.

One light I keep coming back to is the Convoy L21B. Looks like all around, it's an excellent performer for the price, for some edging out the L21A. It has the SFT40 emitter (as I understand it, dedomed SST-40), but does come in a bristly cool 6500K. Ideally, I'd like something more in the range of 5500~6000K. And I don't know if some of these emitters are immediately disqualified for being available only in 6500k. Certainly that's the case for LEP, which I won't even touch at this point (IMHO, the best would be LEP + LED in a combo form factor).

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Olight’s LEP has a very warm tint.

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GT-FC40, forget the rest. Only high CRI one.

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MoreLumens wrote:
GT-FC40, forget the rest. Only high CRI one.

But is that MoreLumens or less lumens? Big Smile

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MoreLumens wrote:
GT-FC40, forget the rest. Only high CRI one.

XHP-series may often be pretty ugly as far as tint shift goes, but they do have 90+ CRI bins which still have a serious leg up on the FC40 for efficiency AFAIK.

I’d love to start seeing the Cree XP-P in some lights. If the tint and temp are anything like 5000K XP-L HI I bet it’ll be a hit.

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MoreLumens wrote:
GT-FC40, forget the rest. Only high CRI one.

is it really better than mtg2? I was looking at some tests, seems mtg2 is more efficient? Maybe not after they’re sliced, which is the only way I’ve used one.

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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
MoreLumens wrote:
GT-FC40, forget the rest. Only high CRI one.

XHP-series may often be pretty ugly as far as tint shift goes, but they do have 90+ CRI bins which still have a serious leg up on the FC40 for efficiency AFAIK.

I’d love to start seeing the Cree XP-P in some lights. If the tint and temp are anything like 5000K XP-L HI I bet it’ll be a hit.

XHP35 NW doesn’t, and is probably my favorite tint. I don’t even know what the CRI is on mine (FD65, Catapult V6) but they’re really great imo.

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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
I’d love to start seeing the Cree XP-P in some lights. If the tint and temp are anything like 5000K XP-L HI I bet it’ll be a hit.
I just read about XP-P over on Reddit r/flashlight and thought it was a typo for XP-L. Looks really interesting. This is precisely why I’ve been hesitant to jump in and just buy whatever light seems to tick all the right checkboxes. The progress seems to be in a massive upswing. I’m thinking of something like an L21B to tie me over now with very little investment, then spring for something more “serious” as the thrower LED progression battle enters the next round. An XP-P at 5700k perhaps?
CollectEverything wrote:
MoreLumens wrote:
GT-FC40, forget the rest. Only high CRI one.
But is that MoreLumens or less lumens? Big Smile
I can’t recall the reference exactly, but going from 1000 lumens to 2000 lumens isn’t double the brightness as perceived by the human eye. On top of that, mounted optics and tint can also alter perception. For real long-range throwers, I don’t see hi CRI as a priority… because that can definitely alter perceived effectiveness of throw with respect to the ambient light of the environment (daylight, to dusk, to pitch black). A warmer tint is not very useful in ambient daylight conditions (searching in a building with windows, examining components of a car engine, etc.). So a cooler tint, around 6000k tends to be “all purpose”.
Jon_Slider explained it nicely, HERE.
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Cree 90+ CRI is everywhere in their datasheet. But in reality, do they exist or it’s a myth?

BurningPlayd0h wrote:
MoreLumens wrote:
GT-FC40, forget the rest. Only high CRI one.

XHP-series may often be pretty ugly as far as tint shift goes, but they do have 90+ CRI bins which still have a serious leg up on the FC40 for efficiency AFAIK.

I’d love to start seeing the Cree XP-P in some lights. If the tint and temp are anything like 5000K XP-L HI I bet it’ll be a hit.

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I don’t have the taste for a high cri thrower yet. Does seem like the holy grail, but probably always will be with LED tech.

I think mid range is the market for high cri. You need a telescope for 1500m. But at 600m, 60m wide, if that could look like daylight it would be awesome.

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CollectEverything wrote:
MoreLumens wrote:
GT-FC40, forget the rest. Only high CRI one.
But is that MoreLumens or less lumens? Big Smile

Let’s just say MoreHighCRILumens. Thumbs Up

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Hi CRI?

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dthrckt wrote:
BurningPlayd0h wrote:
MoreLumens wrote:
GT-FC40, forget the rest. Only high CRI one.

XHP-series may often be pretty ugly as far as tint shift goes, but they do have 90+ CRI bins which still have a serious leg up on the FC40 for efficiency AFAIK.

I’d love to start seeing the Cree XP-P in some lights. If the tint and temp are anything like 5000K XP-L HI I bet it’ll be a hit.

XHP35 NW doesn’t, and is probably my favorite tint. I don’t even know what the CRI is on mine (FD65, Catapult V6) but they’re really great imo.

Couldn’t agree more! It’s just the flip-chip versions that don’t look great. XHP 35 HI is probably my fav overall LED, just so well balanced. Wish it wasn’t only 12V!

LTC wrote:
Cree 90+ CRI is everywhere in their datasheet. But in reality, do they exist or it’s a myth?
BurningPlayd0h wrote:
MoreLumens wrote:
GT-FC40, forget the rest. Only high CRI one.

XHP-series may often be pretty ugly as far as tint shift goes, but they do have 90+ CRI bins which still have a serious leg up on the FC40 for efficiency AFAIK.

I’d love to start seeing the Cree XP-P in some lights. If the tint and temp are anything like 5000K XP-L HI I bet it’ll be a hit.

Yes, there are stock lights sold with them too, notably Zebralight.

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dthrckt wrote:
I don’t have the taste for a high cri thrower yet. Does seem like the holy grail, but probably always will be with LED tech.

I think mid range is the market for high cri. You need a telescope for 1500m. But at 600m, 60m wide, if that could look like daylight it would be awesome.

I could not agree more… The MTG02 for all of it’s goodness in a mid range flooder has been outdone by the FC40. Not that I am going to clean house of my MTG02 lights. I do not see the FC40 as a long range led at all, but in the S11 and M21B it sure is nice.

EDC rotation:
KR4, SST-20 FA3 4000k (favorite!)
FW3A, Nichia 4000k sw40 r9080 (second favorite)
FW1A, LH351D 3500k (third favorite)
FW1A, XP-L Hi 3A
FW3A, LH351D 3500k
FW3A, SST20 FD2 4000k
FW3A, Cree XP-L Hi 5A3
Emisar D4V2, SST20 4000k
Emisar D4V2, brass E21A 3500k (night light of choice)

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Yeah, I don’t really care too much about high cri throwers to be honest. Would like to have one of course, but that’s the usual flashlight spiel. But what color can you really see at 200+m downrage anyway? Big Smile

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The XHP50.3 HI looks like it could be interesting, but it doesn’t appear to be available anywhere yet (except preorder)

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I would love to see a chart that shows all the “high thrower” LED’s in a grid that indicates their die size, required voltage, minimum usable power cells, range of temperatures (tint), driver compatibility (buck-boost, FET, etc.) and typical beam characteristics presuming a standard reflector or a certain depth. Of course, how an LED is housed can make a world of difference. Optics & reflectors can notably alter characteristics. It would be so useful for the “enthusiast” like myself, who isn’t adept at all the latest LED nomenclature, BBL and duv statistics, etc., to have this information for guidance on what to look for in a flashlight purchase.

For example, I had no idea that XHP35 must be driven by 12v. So that immediately eliminates it from being run by a single lithium cell, thus not even a midsize EDC form factor (presuming maximum of 2 cells), unless some sort of buck-boost driver can compensate?

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xevious wrote:
I would love to see a chart that shows all the “high thrower” LED’s in a grid that indicates their die size, required voltage, minimum usable power cells, range of temperatures (tint), driver compatibility (buck-boost, FET, etc.) and typical beam characteristics presuming a standard reflector or a certain depth. Of course, how an LED is housed can make a world of difference. Optics & reflectors can notably alter characteristics. It would be so useful for the “enthusiast” like myself, who isn’t adept at all the latest LED nomenclature, BBL and duv statistics, etc., to have this information for guidance on what to look for in a flashlight purchase.

For example, I had no idea that XHP35 must be driven by 12v. So that immediately eliminates it from being run by a single lithium cell, thus not even a midsize EDC form factor (presuming maximum of 2 cells), unless some sort of buck-boost driver can compensate?

Except their are plenty of single cell xhp35 single cell flashlights on the market already, like Nitecore EC23 CREE XHP35 HD E2 LED Flashlight -1800 Lumens, Using one IMR 18650

I don’t think a chart like what your asking can exist because it would need to be three dimensional.
My best advice for comparing LED’s is to see how the different size emitters all fair in one host size. Something with a good size reflector like a Convoy. From their you’ll be able to see amperage draw, output and beam pattern out of a single host. Each emitter size could benefit from a different reflector, but that’s the part where usually the manufacturer makes the decision for us unless your modding it yourself

I’m glad I’m not the only flashlight collector out there, I was beginning to think I was strange.
My name is Kendall and I’m a Flashaholic from western Canada

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xevious wrote:
Hi CRI?

!{width:90%}[img]https://i.imgur.com/AW5QD8V.jpg[/img]!

When angels deserve to DIE!!

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I’ve loved the MTG2, it’s one of my favorites but it was never a thrower. The GTFC40 would be very different in this aspect correct?

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Large format LEDs such as GT-FC40 and XHP70.2 are not really thrower LEDs, but stick any LED (within reason) in a large enough and deep reflector will create a throwy beam profile.

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Most of my large throwers Acebeam K70, Astrolux MF02, and Mateminco MT35 Plus use XHP35 HI. What I want to know is the difference between the medium to smaller lights, like Convoy L21A & Convoy L21B and Convoy C8. Here are a lot of emitters I see but there is never information on them KW CSLNM1.TG white light (6A current), KW CSLPM1.TG white light (6A current) KW CULPM1.TG white light (8A current), and SFT40. Also see a new one XHP70.3 HI. So anyone know which have the best THROW?

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Agreed with posts above:

GT-FC40 has the highest CRI (Ra and R9) and the most beautiful beam color among throwers https://budgetlightforum.com/node/81179, but it’s a medium throw LED (300 m or so with Convoy M21E and F).

For the absolute king of throw, meaning throw (950 m) + brightness (~4000 lm) + large useful beam, SBT90.2 stands alone IMHO. And the least expensive is this great Wurkkos, on sale for $66 https://wurkkos.com/products/ts30s-usb-c-rechargeable-flashlight-powerfu.... This flashlight would light up streets and football fields like an automobile head light.

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W1 is pretty amazing in my Noctigon K1 and Acebeam L19. The most versatile IMO is probably the XHP70.2 (XHP70.3 throws farther but less lumen and flood), love it in my MK38 and will love it once they ship the X75. I have the SFT40 in MK38 and throws far, but prefer the XHP70.2 5000k. The most wow for me is probably the SBT90.2 in my K1, Lumintop GT94vn and Mateminco MT90vn plus Spec C.

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flashoholic wrote:
Most of my large throwers Acebeam K70, Astrolux MF02, and Mateminco MT35 Plus use XHP35 HI. What I want to know is the difference between the medium to smaller lights, like Convoy L21A & Convoy L21B and Convoy C8. Here are a lot of emitters I see but there is never information on them KW CSLNM1.TG white light (6A current), KW CSLPM1.TG white light (6A current) KW CULPM1.TG white light (8A current), and SFT40. Also see a new one XHP70.3 HI. So anyone know which have the best THROW?

 

Typically in the same host

Throw: KW CSLPM1.TG (w1) > KW CULPM1.TG (w2) > SFT40

Lumen: KW CSLPM1.TG (w1) < KW CULPM1.TG (w2) < SFT40

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cannga wrote:
Agreed with posts above:

GT-FC40 has the highest CRI (Ra and R9) and the most beautiful beam color among throwers https://budgetlightforum.com/node/81179, but it’s a medium throw LED (300 m or so with Convoy M21E and F).

For the absolute king of throw, meaning throw (950 m) + brightness (~4000 lm) + large useful beam, SBT90.2 stands alone IMHO. And the least expensive is this great Wurkkos, on sale for $66. This flashlight would light up streets and football fields like an automobile head light.

Yeah, that SBT90.2 is truly amazing for throw, independent of tint appeal. Wurkkos rates it as 952 m distance. Of course, the real question is, what’s the hotspot diameter once reaching out to over 600 m. It’s one thing to throw, but another to illuminate.
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xevious wrote:
cannga wrote:
Agreed with posts above:

GT-FC40 has the highest CRI (Ra and R9) and the most beautiful beam color among throwers https://budgetlightforum.com/node/81179, but it’s a medium throw LED (300 m or so with Convoy M21E and F).

For the absolute king of throw, meaning throw (950 m) + brightness (~4000 lm) + large useful beam, SBT90.2 stands alone IMHO. And the least expensive is this great Wurkkos, on sale for $66. This flashlight would light up streets and football fields like an automobile head light.

Yeah, that SBT90.2 is truly amazing for throw, independent of tint appeal. Wurkkos rates it as 952 m distance. Of course, the real question is, what’s the hotspot diameter once reaching out to over 600 m. It’s one thing to throw, but another to illuminate.

Big hot spot, big spill, big lumen. Thumbs Up Smile Everything about SBT90.2 is big. It is the ultimate limit for single LED small thrower IMHO. Check another owner’s comparison above against his other good LED’s https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1875053#comment-1875053.

I don’t like thrower with narrow beam (like Sofirn IF22a) and stopped looking once I have SBT90.2. It’s the one FUN light in my (small) collection where I sometimes turn it on just to see the magic.

Some comparison against a couple of other lights I have. Shot at same exposure to show different in brightness. In order to expo the other lights adequately look how totally over-exposed SBT90.2 is. Scares the hell out of the bug for sure lol (that’s the white streak in the beam).



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Just ordered the new FF5-GT which is supposed to a lot more powerful than the already bad a$$ FF5. 4300K baby

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cannga wrote:
Some comparison against a couple of other lights I have. Shot at same exposure to show different in brightness. In order to expo the other lights adequately look how totally over-exposed SBT90.2 is. Scares the hell out of the bug for sure lol (that’s the white streak in the beam).
Thanks a lot for the comparison photos. Very helpful. Thumbs Up

The TS30S seems to be priced (when discounted) at about double the IF22A and it certainly delivers more than double the lumens and throw. I really like the IF22A design, almost like an elongated Catapult Mini. But that TS30S reflector leaps beyond it.