Your suggestions for developing a new 26800 charger?

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xtarflashlight
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Your suggestions for developing a new 26800 charger?

Recently, the new-fangled 26800 batteries were discussed by many people. And some xtar fans also asked if we had plans to develop a new charger to handle the newly-popular 26800 cells. We gave this idea to our engineers team, and it would be possible to build a new charger. Smile Here, we’d like to get your kind suggestions about developing this new charger. Please comment freely below. Thanks!

For example, some features you may want as below.

  • Slots: single slot, 2 slots, or 4 slots?
  • Apply to battery types: specially designed for big size Li-ion batteries.
  • Apply to battery sizes: 21700, 26800…up to 90mm cells supported (including protected 26800)?
  • Input power: USB-C with PD or QC3.0 input?
  • Charging current: at least 3A*1, is the selectable charging current necessary? Or other ideas?
  • Basic charger or charger with more advanced functions? Do you prefer the charger with basic function, simple but budget, highly cost performance; or you need it with LCD screen to show the charging data, also with some advanced functions, such as grading, storage mode…

Welcome to share your views. Maybe your suggestions will be adopted.

Edited by: xtarflashlight on 11/05/2021 - 05:48
thefreeman
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Firstly you could make a simple inexpensive one for people already equipped with a good charger and only need to charge one or two 26800 cells.
Then update the VP4 + with longer slots and 3A charging current for people who want a universal charger, you could also add magnetic probes to charge whatever cells (see Olight UC), those magnetic probes could include a kelvin connection for accurate DCIR measurements, which would be much better than the 2 contacts measurement used in the current VP4+.

For the QB26800 6800mAh, 3A would be 0.44C, which is an appropriate charging rate for this cell (rated for 0.5C charging current), and for ~6000mAh cells in general.

tempo
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RamBull
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Maybe two version: inexpensive one and cream of the crop (flagship type).

Another option would be to make it portable battery pack version available in 1 or two cells that is charged via USB-C.

maxchaos92
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I too second the idea of two chargers,one budget and one flagship,or maybe a new flagship for all round use,with all the feature of vp4 dragon and vc4sl,but with the added support of the 26800 (and maybe bigger too with 4 slots).

The budget for me will need at least,voltage display and 2A charge,2 slots for 2 batteries together and usb input whichever you like,type C is better,much like the MC6C but with 2 slots

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tactical_grizzly
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Would it be possible to make a simple adapter (as shown below) that would allow us to charger our 26800’s in our existing chargers? I would love for this product to exist and be about $5. Then I could buy a couple of them and just use them on either end of my existing bay charger.

And for a dedicated 26800 charger, here are my thoughts:

Definitely use USB-PD (the official industry standard) instead of QC 3.0 (3rd party standard that doesn’t comply with USB specifications). It should work with standard 5V power sources too, just at a lower charging speed.

Up to 90mm cell length would be excellent. That should fit any future 26800 releases, even USB rechargeable protected ones. I don’t think an LCD screen or measurement functions will be necessary, just a simple 2-4 LED indicators to show charging status. For current selection, A small switch like on Xtar FC2 would be ideal.

I’m more interested in an affordable, basic charger than one that has advanced functions. As the Freeman said, many of us already have nice chargers, they just can’t fit 26800’s so we need this new charger to supplement.

spamyak
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A PB1 or PB2L with USB-PD would be excellent, especially if it was capable of 45W. If my layman math is correct you could charge a laptop at 45W for a around an hour with two QB 26800s.

EDIT: tactical_grizzly’s adapter suggestion also seems great but I would suggest that it be made with long enough cables to accommodate 26980s since flashlights in this form factor seem to be becoming available now too

TermsakC
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An affordable XTAR charger with two slots to charge 26800 at a 2A-3A speed would be most welcome.

I have a Yonil 26800 charger (single slot) bought from Banggood; but it is rather slow.

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Rusty Joe
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4-slots with PLENTY of room for other manufacturer batteries with longer charging ports and protection chips.

texas shooter
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I’d like to see the ANT-MC1 Plus just stretched to 90mm’s. No other modification needed on that one. As far as other chargers. I’d take a few of your best selling ones and just stretch them. The extra length in general would be very welcomed. The short chargers can be tight, ripping the cells wrapper getting them out.

This is my X2 Xtar charger slight modification. Slider works unmodified but it’s at it’s limit and a bit tight. The spring is showing signs of being fatigued and losing some tension. Slightly longer unstretched springs would be needed.
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texas shooter wrote:
I’d like to see the ANT-MC1 Plus just stretched to 90mm’s. No other modification needed on that one.

I wouldn’t mind that, especially if it could come to market really fast. It should completely replace MC1 Plus and the old version should be discontinued to keep the product line from getting any more cluttered.

jeff51
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+1 on the extra length.
These are high capacity batteries and likely to get better as time goes on.
Both slots need to be able to charge at higher outputs.
I think 5 amps each would be a good place to start.
If it uses a USB power supply, it’s doomed. Nobody want’s to wait forever to charge a big battery.

Make the slots far enough apart so the batteries have room to breathe and room for our finger to pluck them out.

Temperature sensing to detect overheating cells would be nice and perhaps required for high charge rates.

Don’t bother with NiMh charging. Keep it dedicated to the Lith chemistry. Chargers for MiMh are cheap and plentiful.
Most users have several already.
All the Best,
Jeff

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Just dreaming.
Having a select-able cut off voltage would be wonderful.
I’ve always wanted a charger that I could set 4.1v (or ??) as the max charge voltage.
And 3.6??v for a storage charge.

tactical_grizzly
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jeff51 wrote:
I think 5 amps each would be a good place to start. If it uses a USB power supply, it’s doomed. Nobody want’s to wait forever to charge a big battery.

USB-PD can handle up to 100 watts so it’s not a limitation. 5 amps would be great, but my suspicion is that would be costly. I’m starting to like the idea of 2 chargers:

One cheap one, 1-2 bays, current is fixed at 3A (unless you’re using a lower-powered USB source), just some indicator LED’s.

And then a really nice charger (probably an update to/replacement for VP4 Plus) that can do super high current like 5+ amps and has all the testing features and a nice display.

jeff51 wrote:
Just dreaming. Having a select-able cut off voltage would be wonderful. I’ve always wanted a charger that I could set 4.1v (or ??) as the max charge voltage. And 3.6??v for a storage charge.

I would LOVE that on a premium charger. When I do regulation testing I have to keep manually removing the battery to check the voltage and test brightness every 0.2V. Being able to just set the termination voltage instead of me having to baby it and keep pulling the battery out and testing would be INCREDIBLE.

stephenk
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Given that there are plenty of countries where 26800s are not available, or not shipping to (like Australia), you would need to be careful around which countries these chargers would be sold in.
Maybe just develop a magnetic charger with polarity detection like the one from Olight, but more advanced?

texas shooter
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stephenk wrote:
Given that there are plenty of countries where 26800s are not available, or not shipping to (like Australia), you would need to be careful around which countries these chargers would be sold in.
Maybe just develop a magnetic charger with polarity detection like the one from Olight, but more advanced?

I would respectfully disagree. I wanted at least 85mm slots just to have room to get 21700 cells in and out with plenty of room for my fingers. I would have bought the lengthened chargers without access to 26800 cells. I’ve torn a few cell wrappers from it just being too tight a fit on short slots. 15-20mm’s extra length won’t put any of these chargers over the top in size. 99% of my charging in done at home on a desk with plenty of room for that extra length. ANT-MC1 Plus is my portable charger. Add some 19mm’s to bring it to 90mm charging length and it’ll still be a small charger.
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Universal charger ..
Design the contacts to handle anything from 18650 and up to 26800 …
Maybe call it your large battery charger …

Charge rates – 500mAh – 1000mAh – 2000mAh ( Not sure you need more than that )
2 Bay Charger ?

Most of the time , I’m only charging one or two batteries .. ( But thats me )

Maybe one day ? A small battery charger …

With charge current starting at 100mAh / 250mAh / 500mAh ( Nice slow charging for small batteries ) …

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tempo
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the BLF charger does 26900 no problem

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Have a 3.8V storage charge and 4.0V working charge. And of course 4.2V like every other charger.

The 4.0V is to allow charging to 80% for those who want to extend battery life but still have good battery capacity for everyday use. I have never seen a 4.0V feature on a charger so this would be an innovative feature.

Also the ability to show voltage or percent on the display, so the user change choose which one they prefer, i want voltage being an enthusiast but someone else might prefer percent.

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tempo wrote:
the BLF charger does 26900 no problem

the BlueSwordM one? I did ask him for the up to 26800 if not 26950, but his reply was
BlueSwordM wrote:
Adapters are still the way to go. Not going the route of making something to support cells larger than protected 21700s or 26650s. As for small cell compatibility, I've had an idea floating in my head about putting magnets inside of the tips to magnetize the steel canisters most cylindrical cells come in, so I guess it could work. That, or we use stiff springs. Believe it or not, I'm still working on the project funnily enough.


crycrycry  

The 26900 would be welcome even by the 21700 guys, so that you can easy put it in, and out. 

Ps. for the charger, the 2 slot 26900 at the same time capable charger is enough. 
The feature that BLF want, is to have te option to select and memorize, the max voltage to charge up to, most people would be happy to charge li-ion up to 4.1V or 4.15V max 
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The problem (of course) is that to stretch the slots to fit 800s and 980s, that means the slider-spring needs to be made of some miracle material to also grab onto 340s and 350s (ie, 16340s and 18350s).

Even in my Ope that only stretches to baaaaaaarely fit 21700s, it also barely rests against the case of 18350s/16340s, and to make good contact I typically also have to wedge something in the open area to push the slider more firmly against the cell.

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I’m glad to see this development. Smile

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Can it be easier to make an adapter for the 26800?

(This is not my adapter.)

Sorry for my poor english.

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Di_Joker wrote:

Can it be easier to make an adapter for the 26800?

I'm thinking it would be easier, but if I wanted to get into 26800 cells, I would want a proper charger that doesn't require an adapter.  ;)

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raccoon city wrote:

Di_Joker wrote:

Can it be easier to make an adapter for the 26800?


I’m thinking it would be easier, but if I wanted to get into 26800 cells, I would want a proper charger that doesn’t require an adapter.  ;)


I would take the adapter, its very spiffy and can be customized to many sizes!

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Bort wrote:

I would take the adapter, its very spiffy and can be customized to many sizes!

Well, one adapter for one 26800 would probably be cheaper than an entirely new charger.  :BEER:

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raccoon city wrote:

Bort wrote:

I would take the adapter, its very spiffy and can be customized to many sizes!


Well, one adapter for one 26800 would probably be cheaper than an entirely new charger.  alt=:" />


Indeed, plus its future proofing, whatever new size comes out just buy an adapter.

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

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I like that ….

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The resulting sound may , or may not be worth listening too ….

 

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Di_Joker wrote:
Can it be easier to make an adapter for the 26800?

(This is not my adapter.)

I would also like to have an adapter to use with my existing chargers.

An inexpensive 2× 26800 charger (starting at 2Amps or higher), which means if it is USB-powered, this may have to use USB-PD (maybe only use QC3.0 if the price difference is going to be really big for USB-PD vs QC2/3).

As for a full-featured charger (capacity testing), I think a higher discharge current (maybe 0.75A or 1A) would be desired to grade large capacity batteries (a 6800mAh battery at 300mA discharge current is going to take around 23 hours to discharge, and that does not include the charging phase yet). Although 1A may need proper cooling (cooling fan may add cost)

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Lightbringer wrote:
The problem (of course) is that to stretch the slots to fit 800s and 980s, that means the slider-spring needs to be made of some miracle material to also grab onto 340s and 350s (ie, 16340s and 18350s).

Even in my Ope that only stretches to baaaaaaarely fit 21700s, it also barely rests against the case of 18350s/16340s, and to make good contact I typically also have to wedge something in the open area to push the slider more firmly against the cell.


Too True.
I’d say make 18650 the smallest battery it will take. Trying to make a charger that fits everything – means it’s a poor choice at the ends of the size range.
Consider this a charger for larger higher capacity batteries. The world is full of chargers for smaller batteries and NiMh.
Don’t cripple the design by trying to be a one size fits all device.

As far as power supplies – A 12v-14.4v power supply included with the charger would be ideal.
Then the charger could be connected to a cars 12~14v power for charging in an Auto or other 12v portable source.
All the Best,
Jeff

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