soda can light with sustainable high output?

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goshdogit
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soda can light with sustainable high output?

The longer nights have me thinking I need a new chunky light. Party

I’m interested in sustainable output, perhaps a few thousand lumens for several minutes or longer.

I have Meteors, Q8s, and an SP36 Pro in my soda can collection.

What’s the ‘next level’ progression from these?

Edited by: goshdogit on 11/06/2021 - 21:51
stephenk
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To significantly step up from the BLF Q8’s sustained brightness of approx. 1500lm you’ll need to spend a lot more money. Think Olight Marauda 2 or Acebeam X80-GT which can sustain over 3000lm.

fogofwar
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A soda can with 4x XHP 50.2 is your best bet. My Jin Heng JKK80 can sustain 3k lumens for 5 minutes no problem.

stephenk
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fogofwar wrote:
A soda can with 4x XHP 50.2 is your best bet. My Jin Heng JKK80 can sustain 3k lumens for 5 minutes no problem.

Sustained lumens needs to be for longer than 5 minutes, thats just a long turbo!
L4M4
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The higher the max. output, the higher the sustainable brightness, because LEDs are more efficient at lower current.
So probably a Trustfire TR-J20 modded with XHP50.2’s would be a good choice Crazy

I am kinda disappointed that noone has made a flashlight with high-efficient LEDs like the Samsung LM301B/H yet – sure, you need a lot of them, but 220Lm/W in you hands would be nice.

djozz
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Needless summarising the above posts Glasses

For sustainable brightness there is only two parameters involved: led efficiency and flashlight outer surface area. All other parameters are not in play.

By asking for a soda can light you have already more or less fixed the surface area (are there soda cans with extreme finning?, that could stretch it a bit).

The option leftover is led efficiency. Q8’s with XPL’s are running the led at their max, so with very much reduced efficiency (but good for throw). High 90+ CRI leds have down to half the efficiency as cool white 70 CRI. So those big cool XHP50’s (lousy throw and ugly beam) are the way to go.

fogofwar
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stephenk wrote:
fogofwar wrote:
A soda can with 4x XHP 50.2 is your best bet. My Jin Heng JKK80 can sustain 3k lumens for 5 minutes no problem.
Sustained lumens needs to be for longer than 5 minutes, thats just a long turbo!

I’ve just never needed to use 3k lumens for more than 5 minutes. Turbo is over 10,000 lumens and I’m pretty sure it can sustain 3k indefinitely. For a 3V XHP 50.2 emitter, 2A will get you close to 1000 lumens. Therefore, under 8A for all 4 emitters should be quite sustainable for a soda can size light.

fogofwar
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One (small) gap in the market is a super sustainable small form factor light.

I’d be interested in a 4x XHP70.2 with an efficient boost/buck driver and with the emitters under driven. The emitters should be driven only within the 200 lumen/watt efficiency range. A sustainable 2000 lumens at 10W for a single 21700 cell light sounds nice.

It would even nicer if someone could design an optic to create a nice beam from 4x XHP70.2. Although, it would require a pretty unconventional shape.

dave1010
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This is why run time graphs are so helpful.

Looking at a few reviews on 1lumen, after 1 hour, this is the best some flashlights can do:

  • Acebeam X50 – 5500 lm
  • Fenix LR50R – 4000 lm
  • Acebeam X80-GT – 3700 lm
  • Acebeam K30-GT – 2300 lm
  • Convoy 3×21A – 2300 lm
  • Imalent MS06 – 2200 lm (medium may do better)
  • Imalent MS03 – 1300 lm (single cell)
  • Olight Seeker 3 Pro – 1100 lm (single cell)
  • BLF Q8 – 1000 lm
  • ThruNite TC20 V2 – 1000 lm (single cell)
  • Sofirn SP36 Pro – 800 lm
  • Fireflies E12R – 800 lm (single cell)
  • Fireflies ROT66 II – 500 lm

You can see how some of the lights with better drivers (and thermal limits) are significantly better than anything more budget, often with a FET.

Some of the lights at the top of the list also come with a handle too, meaning the high temperature is less of a concern.

dave1010
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fogofwar wrote:

I’d be interested in a 4x XHP70.2 with an efficient boost/buck driver and with the emitters under driven. The emitters should be driven only within the 200 lumen/watt efficiency range. A sustainable 2000 lumens at 10W for a single 21700 cell light sounds nice.

The Imalent MS03 is pretty close to this on the low and medium modes.

But probably the main thing it’s used for is 10 seconds of turbo.

CNCman
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I would guess your next step in progression would be a soda can size thrower. Have you considered a Convoy 4×18A Cree XHP70.2 ? HERE
.
Or at Neals Gadgets HERE
.
I have the 90.2 version, but the run time is short, the 70.2 version is better. If you get the 4K version the CRI should be higher and the price is cheaper. Wink
.

zoulas
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I have the Convoy 3×21A and its a marvelous light, Tremendous power and sustained output. Takes standard 21700 batteries, not that proprietary nonsense. At $65, its a no brainer.

CNCman
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zoulas wrote:
I have the Convoy 3×21A and its a marvelous light, Tremendous power and sustained output. Takes standard 21700 batteries, not that proprietary nonsense. At $65, its a no brainer.

.
I like that one too. Big Smile
Tatteredmidnight
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Thrunite tn36 limited will sustain a very high outputs (near to its 8000lm high I believe), but has a correspondingly high thermal limit).

djozz
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I did not include driver efficiency as parameter because even the FET drivers without 7135-bank are in most modes sufficiently efficient, the difference with nice current regulated buck-drivers is often not more than 10%, but agreed that is a factor too. In the worst case design the FET in fully open mode drives the leds right at their max (I do not consider this a well-designed flashlight) and is then PWMed to 30% to reach max sustainable lumens.

Scallywag
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My M6 with 3xXHP50.2 and 16xAMC7135 will sustain full regulation until the battery voltage drops below regulation Smile
Maybe Q8 Pro can do well?

weklund
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Yep … Convoy 3×21A … great light for your needs.

... Happy Landings ...

jd13181
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+1 on the Thrunite TN36

how crazy is this
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This is very interesting to me in that efficiency by definition should be a critical factor to this. However, the least efficient LED light that I have can sustain about 1k lumen for hours on end and not even get very warm to the touch. Roughly 76 lumen per Watt. However, that is not a flashlight — it is an under counter light. No idea how many LEDs it has but certainly at least dozens. These LEDs are laid out over about 62 × 600 mm. Don’t think there is a way to do anything like this with a flashlight. Must be just too expensive to use more efficient LEDs in the under counter lights. Should be closer to 6 watt rather than 13 but apparently, getting the efficiency out of counter lights would be just too expensive to justify.

goshdogit
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Thank you for all the replies, everyone! I realize this form factor will limit heatsinking.

dave1010 wrote:
Looking at a few reviews on 1lumen, after 1 hour, this is the best some flashlights can do…

Great list, Dave! I’d been poking around on 1lumen for the excellent runtime tests, and your list is very helpful. Thumbs Up

I had already been ogling the Acebeam X50, which looks to be the top performer in terms of sustainable output in this class.

Simon’s 3×21A looks like an amazing bargain! This one had somehow flown under my radar.

A_M_K
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Take a look at Lumintop GT3.

When I received my unit, I conducted a ~35min test run. Judging by eye, I set the brightness to a level which corresponded to ~70%(again judging by eye) of the brightness of my BLF SP36 LH351D 5000k when on TURBO. Head temperature stabilized and didn’t exceed 59,3°C(measured with pyrometer), body temperature stabilized at 54,5°C and didn’t exceed that. No step-down during this test.When I received the light, I calibrated the temperature sensor and set the thermal limit to 70°C.
I know it’s not very scientific, but for me it somewhat confirmed the impressive performance showed/stated in zeroair’s review.

Cheers

stephenk
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zoulas wrote:
I have the Convoy 3×21A and its a marvelous light, Tremendous power and sustained output. Takes standard 21700 batteries, not that proprietary nonsense. At $65, its a no brainer.

If only it had a tripod mount like the Q8!
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If I need several thousand lumens to be sustained, my go-to lights are either my Trustfire TR-J20 or my favorite, the Trustfire TR-S700
Both are heavy lights as seen from some of the specs for the TR-S700 below, but a great deal of heat sinking is necessary to shed all the heat.
The lumens listed for the TR-S700 are actual too.

Model : TR-S700;
Dimensions : length 195 mm * 90 mm diameter ;
Weight: 1278 g;
The light source (LED ): 7xCree XM-L;
The maximum luminous flux of 3800 lumens

Richie

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Out of curiosity, which LED are you guys recommending in the 3×21A, the SST40 version or the 90.2 version?

PhantomPhoton on CPF; reddit.com/r/flashlights; LPF
My rules for flashlights:
1) Always have an option for Neutral, Warm, HiCRI
2) Just say "NO!" to proprietary cells and battery packs
3) Have a KISS interface: no scrolling through blinky modes

Red Rock SAR

zoulas
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PhantomPhoton wrote:
Out of curiosity, which LED are you guys recommending in the 3×21A, the SST40 version or the 90.2 version?

SFT40 is the one everyone is getting.

AFAIK, the SBT90.2 only comes in the 4×18 which is very similar except it takes 4 × 1865s.

FlashKat
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I am looking at the Imalent MS08

RamBull
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Great response Dave!

I love my X80GTvn. Turned off by X50’s proprietary batteries and hoping the new Manker MK38 is better.

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zoulas wrote:
PhantomPhoton wrote:
Out of curiosity, which LED are you guys recommending in the 3x21A, the SST40 version or the 90.2 version?
SFT40 is the one everyone is getting. AFAIK, the SBT90.2 only comes in the 4x18 which is very similar except it takes 4 x 1865s.

 

There is a 3x21A SBT90.2 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003189683649.html

 

But if we are going for sustained output, the SFT40/SST40 would win.

goshdogit
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I ordered a Convoy 3×21A with 5000K SST40 emitters. I like Simon’s products and the excellent price (including cells) was too good to pass up. Party

I’ve enjoyed everyone’s input and am still considering other lights, so let’s keep this thread going!

I’m still tempted by the X50, but the built-in battery is a turn-off.