Yinding "5050 30W" round die domeless led tested

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djozz
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Yinding "5050 30W" round die domeless led tested

I can’t find it back on BLF but someone (JaredM?) recently pointed to this Yinding 5050 led on aliexpress as a potential high performance throw led. It has a die size that is slightly larger than an Osram PM1 die and claims to run at 8A which is definity high performance throw area. And the die is round! Love , which promises beautiful hotspots, from both reflectors and aspheric projection lenses.

Chinese leds are improving fast, so let’s see how this one compares to the established brands (Osram, Cree, Luminus). I bought the 5000K version here, they also sell a 5900-6300K version.

First the uniformity of the die, this is the die at 0.5 mA.

It very nice evenly illuminated with a sharp cutoff at the edge.

The hotspot (on the ceiling) from a smooth X6 reflector, underexposed to see it well on a picture.

It is the roundest, sharpest defined hotspot that I have ever seen from a reflector, a sharp edge with no petals! A round die does make sense in a flashlight. Btw, this is at 50mA, at a normal working current the tint is less green.

The tint, here measured at 2A, in the hotspot of the X6 reflector. Ouch!

Very low CRI and way above the BBL, as others have noticed already this led does look fairly green! But for a thrower led for flashlight use I’m not that bothered, it does provide a sufficiently white illumination that will do the job seeing stuff well in a distance.

The voltage/output test was done like all my more recent emitter tests, for links to my other led tests, see my sig-line below this post. I described the method in detail in my XP-L test, with two minor upgrades since that should not matter significantly for the results: I used my Integrating sphere no. II instead of no. I, and for the current I used a clamp meter, which appears to measure 0.1A lower than the power supply current-reading that I used for my earliest led tests.

Some further remarks about my led tests: 1) just one led was tested which I hope is representative for the whole batch, reflowed on a DTP copper board (XM-KDlight 20mm),  2) I used my large version II integrating sphere with high quality luxmeter, 3) the output numbers and voltages were measured with the led close to ‘steady state’ for each current, so warmed up and settled, you should be able to get these numbers in a well heatsinked flashlight. Mind that these are output numbers of the bare led, in a flashlight there will be losses from light obstructions, lens and optic, 4) output is in ‘djozz-lumen’ defined as 1/550 of the output of my Sunwayman D40A on high setting, which I hope is close to the real lumen, but at least is consistent over all my emitter tests done in integrating spheres. Last year I checked the djozz-lumen with lights measured by maukka and the djozz-lumen seems 7% to 11% high (depending on spectrum) compared to maukka’s calibration.

I added the graphs from three earlier led tests that I thought relevant in the chart, for comparison.

Test data:

In summary, yes this led performs in the same league as the established big manufacturers.

*the voltage graph starts to curve up starting at 12A which is unusual, and indeed after the test-torture (I stopped at 15A, before the led was really dead) when dialing down to 6A, the output is a bit less than on the way up and the voltage has gone up by 0.5V. Sounds like damage occurring when going over 12A (which is well over max, so small deal).

*both voltage and output of the Yingding follows the XP-L Hi U5 quite closely, but the XPL-Hi has 1.8 times the die size so the illuminance of the Yinding is way better (even if this is not the latest output bin of the XP-L hi). What I like about the Yinding voltage curve is that, unlike the modern low voltage leds, it looks very suitable for direct driving it on a single li-ion cell. I can use my favourite BLF-A6 driver again Smile

*for real comparison as a thrower led we need to add the die sizes to the equation. Recently I did an unscientific measurement of several domeless leds so we can use that:

jos wrote:

Getian GT-FC40____________19.1 mm2
Cree XP-L Hi______ _________3.72 mm2
OSRAM KW CSLNM1-TG___0.94 mm2
CREE XHP35 Hi____________5.52 mm2
OSRAM KW CSLPM1-TG___1.83 mm2
Luminus SFT40____________3.90 mm2
Luminus SFT70____________6.34 mm2
Yinding 5050 30W_________2.06 mm2


Now we can calculate the output/die surface area at the maximum output. For the Yinding5050 this is 895 lumen/mm2 while its closest competitor Osram KW CSLPM1-TG makes 835 lumen/mm2. So it is slightly better. The smaller die Osram NM1 still throws a bit better at 950 lumen/mm2, but with less output and smaller hotspot. Other leds in this list: the SFT40 emits 675 lumen/mm2 and the XP-L Hi U5 emits 490 lumen/mm2.

Mind that all calculations here are based on my own led tests of single leds, while leds can vary individually and not everything may be dead-accurate. And my djozz-lumen is known to be a bit high (7-11% compared to maukka’s calibration) so to compare these numbers with other lists you have to compensate for that.

Conclusion
Yes, this chinese led does perform among the best thrower leds currently available, with great output to go with it and a round die for beautiful beams. If you can overcome the quite disastrous tint and CRI that is, but since this is a dedicated thrower led, I find that forgivable.


(At 50mA low current the tint is really really green, duv=+0.0335!)

Edited by: djozz on 11/15/2021 - 02:26
Scallywag
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Lmao 60 CRI and the duv is basically twelve. Good thing the interest is for throwers.

Thanks for testing, djozz

Lotus_Darkrose
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I’ve been curious about this one as well. Thanks for testing. I wish round emitters would become more of a thing.

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So I didn’t imagine it seems green. Big Smile

Mark M
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Would be very interesting to see a higher CRI version.

kennybobby
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Thank you for the excellent review dj

i’m a big fan of the round dies, it just makes sense for a flashlight and no beam artifacts from square corners.

Now i used to think that i was cool,
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until i saw what i was doin',
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I like the round die, but I can’t see myself putting that in anything. There comes a point where i don’t think it should even count as white anymore. How does it compare to the green osram? With a green filter it might be useful for hunting…

djozz
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Pip wrote:
I like the round die, but I can’t see myself putting that in anything. There comes a point where i don’t think it should even count as white anymore. How does it compare to the green osram? With a green filter it might be useful for hunting…

No, it is nothing like the green osram, if you look at the spectrum there is enough of most wavelengths to make reds look red, greens green and blues blue. Not all great accurate enjoyable saturated colours over the entire spectrum but it definitely is a “white” led. Same with the current LEP lights: extremely cool and low CRI but they still do the job of showing the colours.
Pip
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djozz wrote:
Pip wrote:
I like the round die, but I can’t see myself putting that in anything. There comes a point where i don’t think it should even count as white anymore. How does it compare to the green osram? With a green filter it might be useful for hunting…
No, it is nothing like the green osram, if you look at the spectrum there is enough of most wavelengths to make reds look red, greens green and blues blue. Not all great accurate enjoyable saturated colours over the entire spectrum but it definitely is a “white” led. Same with the current LEP lights: extremely cool and low CRI but they still do the job of showing the colours.

My main complaint on the green osram is that it isn’t really that green. I forget what the cri is but I think it’s half way between green and a low cri white. My maxtoch l2k actually has pretty good color for a LEP once you get out there a bit. Up close it looks bad, but nobody uses a light like that up close.

I had high hopes for the yinding, but it doesn’t really seem any better than the pm1 all things considered.

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Thanks djozz! It’s interesting that the peak lumens is almost exactly at 8A. Most other emitters peak to the right of their rating.

I think the LED is good enough where I’m going to pull the trigger and pair with a 8A driver and the empty C8 host that I have. I’m going to buy the 5000k version and hope it isn’t as green and the CRI is slightly better.

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Pip wrote:
djozz wrote:
Pip wrote:
I like the round die, but I can’t see myself putting that in anything. There comes a point where i don’t think it should even count as white anymore. How does it compare to the green osram? With a green filter it might be useful for hunting…
No, it is nothing like the green osram, if you look at the spectrum there is enough of most wavelengths to make reds look red, greens green and blues blue. Not all great accurate enjoyable saturated colours over the entire spectrum but it definitely is a “white” led. Same with the current LEP lights: extremely cool and low CRI but they still do the job of showing the colours.

My main complaint on the green osram is that it isn’t really that green. I forget what the cri is but I think it’s half way between green and a low cri white. My maxtoch l2k actually has pretty good color for a LEP once you get out there a bit. Up close it looks bad, but nobody uses a light like that up close.

I had high hopes for the yinding, but it doesn’t really seem any better than the pm1 all things considered.

Yep the F1 Osrams have a wide spectrum and are more yellow-green than deep green. There is a lot of light above 600nm.

This is from djozz’s test:

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Thank you so much for the test Djozz. It is greatly appreciated. The performance is surprisingly good. The tint is unfortunate, especially since the Cslpm and Culpm LEDs I have seen have had surprisingly decent tints. I wonder what the odds are that we will see better tints?

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Thanks djozz for the test! I’ve been dying to see the results as my three ‘5000k’ emitters are stuck in transit, likely to never be seen again.

The tint is pretty intensely green. I wonder how much of a hit it’d take in flux to drop the duv tenfold if it hypothetically came in another bin?

If mine ever show up, ( In Chicago now! ETA is Saturday.. Party ) I will try them in a bunch of lights. The round die is super cool. Also, the Vf is perfect for true direct drive.. My favorite way to run a dedicated thrower.

@Djozz Did you purchase the cool white or neutral white?

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I’ll grab some for the Convoy Z1, customers aren’t so fond with a square

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djozz
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I forgot to mention that I bought and tested the 5000K version (which is also most consistent with the spectrum results). I updated the OP with that.

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Interesting that Chinese LEDs got so good already.
Thanks for the test djozz!

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Interesting that they rate the 5k as having a slightly higher luminous flux compared to the 6k, we usually see the opposite. I wonder if the 6k would lean more towards blue than green (and if that’s an improvement)?

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Thanks. I was assuming that was the case. I’ll order some cold white ones in a replacement order among with a ‘green’.

There’s also the other variation of this emitter with the Osram Q8WP-esque glass flat lens/encapsulation I’ll try out

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Tatteredmidnight wrote:
Interesting that they rate the 5k as having a slightly higher luminous flux compared to the 6k, we usually see the opposite. I wonder if the 6k would lean more towards blue than green (and if that’s an improvement)?

I’m thinking this is the case. Because of the lumen/w advantage of thee green wavelengths, the green heavy phosphor likely increases the lumen output over the cooler version (more blue, less green). Since they go so light on the red phosphor, the radiant power losses of the phosphor conversion are more than made up for by the lm/w difference.

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I still prefer the CULNM1, large footprint 1mm2 Smile With my circle die mod of course…

This is a cool runner up though

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djozz - thanks again for the test!! Just discovered this thread.

Just got 3 in of the 5000K's - they look nothing like the ones pictured in the OP. Mine look like the 5000's shown here where I bought them: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003246180028.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.41ab4c4dS6O6wb, in the 4th picture, LED on the right.

I have one on a 20 mm MCPCB, 2 bare. Looks like the Vf is slightly better than a XPL-HI so may be hard to get to 8 amps on one cell, FET driver.

Trying to decide what light - thinking of a FT03 but also considering a WT1M. The lumens output is disappointing but that's not the point with this LED. Still, how could they rate it at 3024 lumens, not 3020 or 3000 but 3024, where at best it does about 1800?

I was hoping it would beat the SFT-40 in lumens and throw, but we'll see how it does in throw.

 

Enderman - What is a circle die mod? Is that JB Weld? I know it must work because you wouldn't do it if it didn't smilecool

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3000 lumens would be ridiculous at 8A. It would rival the efficiency of a XHP70.2 but domeless and only 2mm^2. It would also have 50% higher intensity compared to an Osram W1. I contacted the seller on Taobao and he/she also quoted 1800 lumens which is very close to Djozz’s test.

If it had a better spectrum and could be pushed to 2000 lumens at higher current, it would be the best emitter on the market.

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Ummm. Guys (and gals).. Holy crap.

Djozz got ripped off. I received mine today – two days early – and as Tom stated, mine are not like djozz’s samples. They have clear silicone and a glass lens. Let me tell you..

*
*
*
*
*

They are friggin awesome! Tint is perfect on turbo. Slight green shows up on lower modes with the Convoy 8A buck driver, but seriously. PURE white at 8A. A quick and dirty output test showed the same peak current. 8A and 3.99V. Take the lumen value with a grain of salt, as I didn’t do a “calibration” run (will get back to that with another sample later), but I’m getting 1900 lumens ! EDIT: After running a calibration, I’m seeing 1780lm de-lensed. No more left with a lens to compare.

Beam out of an L21B is near perfect. I say nearly because there is an odd “eyeball” artifact that I haven’t figured out were it’s coming from yet. But I literally just got the light together a few minutes ago. 370kcd with initial focusing and a 30T@4.03V

I’m so excited. Honestly this is the most giddy I’ve been in a loonngg time with this hobby.

More to come.

EDIT 1 – Just popped off the lens (by accident actually, which means it came of clean as could be) Artifact is gone! Focus height is different now because I changed gaskets so I don’t know what is responsible for what, but now I’m up to 384kcd with 30T@4.01V

EDIT 2 – Charged the cell. 4.23V (not relaxed, hot off the charger) Raised the reflector a bit with one layer of tape, need another I think b/c the corona is still a bit bigger than I’d like. 408kcd

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How is it better than a PM1 though? Sure it’s a bit wider, but i get 1,345m in the L21B. Can’t remember what that is in candela now. I also get 1,200m with the SFT40 which is higher than yours for some reason

Would be interested to hear your thoughts…

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Funtastic wrote:
How is it better than a PM1 though? Sure it’s a bit wider, but i get 1,345m in the L21B. Can’t remember what that is in candela now. I also get 1,200m with the SFT40 which is higher than yours for some reason

Would be interested to hear your thoughts…

My lux values seem to come in a bit lower than everyone elses by a few percent it seems. I remember no matter what I did, I couldn’t hit your SFT40 numbers.

384kcd is 1,239m >> 1,345m would be 452kcd

Lumens wise, the boost HX from Simon maxed out at 1,560 in my light box.

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That’s the problem when very few are using a calibrated lux meter, who knows who’s is correct. Mine reads 5% higher than Marco’s over at 1Lumen, but that still puts it higher than your measurement.

Also in my calibrated pvc tube I can’t get higher than 1350 or so at 30 sec, same as Tom E. At start it’s a little over 1450, guess no two LEDs are going to be the same though. My L21A/B stock tests 1200-1350

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

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Ok, I'm there with Jared. Popped it in a FT03 - yes, the beam and tint looks pretty darn good. Did some tests at different amps/cells on the stock driver, but I got spring bypasses installed. at 8.6 amps, throw dropped to 460 kcd, but at ~8 amps on a Molicel P42A I got 493 kcd, 1485 lumens at start.

Funny, was look' at the plastic piece over the LED and looked like there were holes on the side so could easily pop it off - interesting. Will post pics.

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Tom E wrote:

Ok, I’m there with Jared. Popped it in a FT03 – yes, the beam and tint looks pretty darn good. Did some tests at different amps/cells on the stock driver, but I got spring bypasses installed. at 8.6 amps, throw dropped to 460 kcd, but at ~8 amps on a Molicel P42A I got 493 kcd, 1485 lumens at start.


Funny, was look’ at the plastic piece over the LED and looked like there were holes on the side so could easily pop it off – interesting. Will post pics.

I discovered these holes when I was cleaning after the reflow with IPA. I had to blow out the alcohol that got under the lens.

There is absolutely nothing to be gained above 8.0A, this I’m confident about. Low 7s is probably a good spot to be.

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Yes, I got slightly higher at 7.1 amps on a LK cell at 4.15V.

Mounted on a FT03 SST-40 MCPCB:

Installed:

There's life!

Closer looks:

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Thanks for the awesome macro shots Tom! Beer

Pop that lens off already!! Evil

One more live update. 415kcd 30T@4.20V and bezel loosened until my eyeball said ‘perfect’. I think this is maxed out here.

I’ve got two emitters left. Where to put them? TN31 that is currently doing 526kcd with an SFT40 running 9ish amps and did 565kcd with a PM1 running 7.0A. These numbers sound too high to be true, but 700kcd is my estimate in the Thrunite at 7A.

Then there’s the C8+ or M2 with ramping driver.. B158B.. Jacob A60..

Just bought 10 more before these unicorns disappear !!!

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Definitely 7.1 amps does better than 8 amps, but ever so slightly. yea, gotta get the lens off.

 

lumens is maukka cal factor and throw is taken indoors at 5 meters on a Extech LT45:

  7.1 amps: 497 kcd, 1515 lumens at start

  8 amps: 493 kcd, 1485 lumens at start

These #'s are decent enough, in the realm of the Boost HX but a lot cheaper. Really wanna see it in a aspheric though - should see a nice circular spot -- wayyyy overdue.

 

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