LEP + LED flashlight: Lumintop Thor Pro [discussion + review]

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dave1010
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LEP + LED flashlight: Lumintop Thor Pro [discussion + review]

Good news everyone!

Lumintop are working on a combined LEP and LED flashlight.

 

Lumintop Thor Pro

 

Order from NealsGadgets

 

I should have a prototype in for review from Nealsgadgets soon and hope to answer all your questions. This is in collaboration with 1Lumen, so a big thanks to ChibiM for arranging this. (I'm not affiliated with Lumintop in any way, other than through doing reviews for 1Lumen.)

 

Here's a couple of teaser photos. Click the thumbnails for larger versions.

More photos from Neal

 

 

Lumintop obviously want to make a flashlight that people want and are keen to get user feedback. If you have any thoughts or questions then feel free to comment. 

Personally I'm quite excited about this. LEP flashlights are lots of fun but sometimes you need a bit of spill too. There's also a few dual channel LED flashlights recently released or being developed (like Emisar and Wurkkos) and people seem to be interested in the ability to switch between flood and throw. LED+LEP is the next logical progression.

Details about the light

Note: this is a prototype, so any final version may be different. Not many details yet but I'll add more soon.

  • LEDs: 8 * XP-G3, XP-L (or XHP50.2???)
  • Cells: 4 * 18650 (production should be 3 * 21700)
  • Power bank function
  • USB-C quick charge

Freeme is also organising a group buy.

 

Edited by: dave1010 on 01/14/2022 - 02:43
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Lumintop Thor Pro prototype review

Note: Come back soon for more info. I’m trying to share what I can before Christmas.

First impressions

This thing is really cool! It’s a LEP flashlight that has enough flood to see where you’re walking. It doesn’t run Anduril but Lumintop’s 2 channel UI works really well. You can run just the LEDs, just the LEP or both at the same time.

This prototype uses XP-G3 LEDs. It hits 7000 lm and 500kcd (1400km) with low current cells.

Quick overview video:

Box and packaging

This is obviously a prototype. Only the light was provided in the box. No manual, accessories or information.

User Interface

There was no manual provided, so this is what I’ve worked out so far:

  • Click for on/off. The light has mode memory on the main modes.
  • Changing brightness
    • Hold when on to cycle up low-med-high and back to low.
    • The second time you hold it will cycle down high-med-low and back to high
    • Each hold changes cycle direction
    • Always cycles up the first time when turned on
  • Double click from off = high (not memorized)
  • Double click from on = turbo (not memorized)
  • Hold from off = moon, then cycles up the modes
  • Click and hold from off = turbo

Channel switching

  • Mode memory includes LED/LEP
  • 3 clicks to cycle LED, LEP, LED+LEP
  • 3 clicks from off will cycle to the next mode with a quick flash 
  • Lighted e-switch: Green (the bunny’s feet) = LED, Blue (ears) = LEP, green and blue = both

The e-switch indicator light is dim when the light is off and bright when the light is on

  • 4 clicks from off = batt check, like Anduril/Narsil. This only uses the LEDs
  • 5 clicks from off = lockout. Blinks to confirm. Allows momentary low but only on LED. 5 clicks again to unlock
  • 7 clicks from off = toggle the e-swich light

User interface overview:

Light output: LEDs and the LEP

LEP

The LEP module is a shine-through version (rather than mirror). Most manufacturers seem to be using these now.

There is a 26mm gap in the reflector for the LEP lens.

For comparison, the Thor II has a 35mm inner diameter (41.5 head diameter). The Thor I has a 32 mm head diameter so I guess its lens is about 26mm too. I wouldn’t be surprised if Lumintop has used the same LEP module and lens as the Thor I. Read ChibiM’s review of the Thor I for more info.

The LEP hotspot looks slightly larger and less intense than my Thor II but not by much.

LEDs

This prototype has 8 lots of CREE XP-G3 LEDs. That’s 8 more than I’d normally like :-).

The XP-G3 is good for output but is not known for having the prettiest beam or highest CRI. The XP-G3s here seem OK, as long as you’re not white wall hunting.

My Opple Lightmaster Pro gives a CCT of 6520K and CRI of 70.

Cells, charging, power bank

Size / shape / handling

Here’s what the prototype measures:

  • Head diameter 67.0mm
  • Body diameter 51.1mm
  • Length 157mm

Rough numbers for the optic diameters:

  • LED 15mm
  • LEP 26mm

Weights

  • Without cells 644g
  • With cells 830g

Build / quality / internals

Lumen and throw measurements

Initial measurements. Take these with a grain of salt. My integrating sphere is normally within 10% of other people’s here.

4 cells charged to 4.20V. Cells are Sony VTC5A button tops, rated to 25A.

Throw was measured at 11m at 0 seconds.

djozz has measured a high CRI XP-G3 at 1300 lm, so 8 of them could hit 10,000 lm. 8 * XP-L should hit 10,000 lumens easily enough too.

Channels

Mode

Lumens @ 0s

Intensity (cd)

Throw (m)

LED

Moon

0.8

  

LED

Low

223

  

LED

Med

997

  

LED

High

2921

  

LED

Turbo

8134

53,027

461

LEP

Moon

82

  

LEP

Low

97

  

LEP

Med

179

  

LEP

High

282

  

LEP

Turbo

368

488,720

1398

LED+LEP

Moon

81

  

LED+LEP

Low

315

  

LED+LEP

Med

998

  

LED+LEP

High

3099

  

LED+LEP

Turbo

8375

504,066

1420

Here's the Thor Pro prototype's output visualised against the Lumintop GT70, which has similar lumen and candela numbers but is a few times the size and weight:

 

 

Beam shots

Feedback for Lumintop / Possible improvements

Lotus_Darkrose
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As long as they let that laser diode run at or near it’s full potential, this looks really fun to own.

dave1010
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It does look fun!

From people’s reviews, the Lumnintop Thor Mini (Ant Man) didn’t seem to push the laser very hard. Lumintop’s Thor I, Thor II and Thor III have all been well received though, so I’m confident the LEP in this will perform well.

I’m not sure yet whether the LEP lens diameter is closer to that of the Thor I or Thor II. I think it’s closer to the Thor II.

I can imagine a big LEP+LED flashlight being both brighter and throwing further than the Lumintop GT94.

Correllux
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Interesting…and mildly interested, but unlikely to buy anything else from Lumintop until they recommit to both quality assurance and product support (not just warranty, but parts, and availability of such for a reasonable amount of time after the warranty has expired and/or the light has been discontinued). They seem to have tanked on both accounts in a bad way over the last year or two and we shouldn’t support that, imho.

ch1ir
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Correllux wrote:
Interesting…and mildly interested, but unlikely to buy anything else from Lumintop until they recommit to both quality assurance and product support (not just warranty, but parts, and availability of such for a reasonable amount of time after the warranty has expired and/or the light has been discontinued). They seem to have tanked on both accounts in a bad way over the last year or two and we shouldn’t support that, imho.

Came hear to say this, way less eloquently

Emisar D⁴, Astrolux C8, BLF A6, Sofirn sp36aV2, Reylight Mini Pineapple, BLF 348 KillZone, Lumintop IYP07, Emisar D18, Boruit D10, Manker e01, Ultrafire z1, Massdrop titanium AAA, Astrolux HL01, Armytek Wizard Pro Nichia, Tacklife LFL3A, Astrolux FT03, Zanflair T1

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Whilst I agree about quality assurance and having a good warranty, I’m not sure about supporting products after a warranty ends. Lumintop have a 5 year warranty on most products but I haven’t had personal experience dealing with it. I’m just 1 data point but none of their lights have failed on me or been wildly off their specs.

Generally I like the idea of “buy it for life” products and am against the mentally of “throw it away and buy a new one” that’s using up the world’s resources.

However there’s a balance, especially when it comes to technology and innovation. The need to support old models indefinitely means the cost to introduce new ones is too high. I love my Zebralight but they haven’t innovated in years, so I’m glad there’s manufacturers like Lumintop and Mateminco. Perhaps Lumintop have gone too far though.

Quality and support is certainly important and should be discussed.

Features, components, specs and UIs are important too and I’d be interested to hear thoughts on these too.

ch1ir
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dave1010 wrote:
Whilst I agree about quality assurance and having a good warranty, I’m not sure about supporting products after a warranty ends. Lumintop have a 5 year warranty on most products but I haven’t had personal experience dealing with it. I’m just 1 data point but none of their lights have failed on me or been wildly off their specs.

Generally I like the idea of “buy it for life” products and am against the mentally of “throw it away and buy a new one” that’s using up the world’s resources.

However there’s a balance, especially when it comes to technology and innovation. The need to support old models indefinitely means the cost to introduce new ones is too high. I love my Zebralight but they haven’t innovated in years, so I’m glad there’s manufacturers like Lumintop and Mateminco. Perhaps Lumintop have gone too far though.

Quality and support is certainly important and should be discussed.

Features, components, specs and UIs are important too and I’d be interested to hear thoughts on these too.


I’m still wrestling with an Fw3a from Lumintop the end result was them ghosting me. I’ve been dealing with it for over a year

Emisar D⁴, Astrolux C8, BLF A6, Sofirn sp36aV2, Reylight Mini Pineapple, BLF 348 KillZone, Lumintop IYP07, Emisar D18, Boruit D10, Manker e01, Ultrafire z1, Massdrop titanium AAA, Astrolux HL01, Armytek Wizard Pro Nichia, Tacklife LFL3A, Astrolux FT03, Zanflair T1

Correllux
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So what about when they discontinue a product before that 5 year warranty is up, and don’t have parts? Count me in for two of those experiences (to say nothing of trying to contact them or have success in explaining what is needed or why the warranty must still be honored…and then why their retailers aren’t able to do the same (as is generally expected in the Chinese manufacturing markets) even if they’re willing). I thought most of their lights reverted to two-year warranties. I’ve seen a lot of them fail (drivers, primarily…many Tools, both AA and AAA models).

Cost is certainly important and an inventory of spares is more of a hassle than many realize, but really once you have a product on the market the costs of keeping spares is fairly minimal even after the product is discontinued (within reason). The US automotive market may not be a good example, considering, but manufacturers are required to have parts available for a minimum of 10 years after last date of production. Many other types of businesses do something similar just as a matter of good business and retaining loyal customers. For a flashlight manufacturer with many models and constant changes in their offerings, it still wouldn’t take too much space or cost to keep replacements around for awhile…even in the “budget” market. If Lumintop wants to fill the “big boy britches” that they seem to and seem to be capable of, then they need to embrace the whole thing. Venturing a guess but I believe they have thought they would be the next Nitecore or Acebeam, etc, etc, and they started off in that direction and then just dropped the ball pretty severely. It’s their choice, not an obligation. For me, they’re pretty much at the point of not being an option for new purchases anymore, although I have gifted cheapies like the Tool AA, but only via Amazon where I know there will be support for direct replacement or a refund (Lumintop does so-so there and Amazon will actually back it up if Lumintop fails to honor their commitment…I’ve seen both happen). But I don’t think I’ll spend more than $20 on Lumintop anymore, nor purchase their products from BG or Ali or Neal, etc.

Anyway…..sorry, not to completely derail your thread. I just don’t know if Lumintop is worth the enthusiast community’s support anymore. Moved the wrong direction in too many ways and that doesn’t appear to be changing (i.e. they really don’t care).

kokosnh
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I remember that comment, on wurkkos TS32 prototype, to put LEP inside.

https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1811348#comment-1811348

The closest now is Olight Marauder 2, but it's still led inside. 

As for me, I just bought the diffuser for my LEP

dave1010
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kokosnh wrote:
The closest now is Olight Marauder 2, but it’s still led inside.

Yeah, it looks similar to the Olight Marauder 2 with the emitters round the outside and the larger light in the middle. The Marauder 2 does 14,000 lm but only 800m throw.

There’s also the Acebeam X10 with 9 LH351D LEDs around an XHP35 HI for 7000 lm and 469m throw. And of course bthe massive Acebeam X70, with 12 XHP70.2 around an XHP35 HI, producing 60,000 lm and 1115m throw.

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hope it will be NO plastic lense, like Olight did. it seems to collect scrathes just after you look at it. super tender plastic in this lense .

 

idea is good, really interested in what it will look like

 

 

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I would like to have 4* 21700 batteries like Thrunite T42 V2 and on the circumference 8 led XHP50.2 or even better XHP50.3.

dave1010
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Lumeniac wrote:

hope it will be NO plastic lense, like Olight did. it seems to collect scrathes just after you look at it. super tender plastic in this lense .

That sounds like a bad design band not something I’d expect from Olight.

The Lumintop Thor 2 and 3 definitely have a glass lens. AFAIK the Thor 1 does too.

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Fedtro wrote:

I would like to have 4* 21700 batteries like Thrunite T42 V2 …

How’s the TN42 V2 to handle?

I have some 4 * 18650 and some 3 * 21700 lights but no 4 * 21700. I’d imagine the diameter of 4 * 21700 would be a bit much to hold for long periods. The extra run time is good but I doubt the cell would make much difference in turbo output: the Acebeam X50 and Imalent MS08 both power 8 XHP70.2 LEDs with 3 cells.

I actually really like 3 * 18650 but that doesn’t seem like enough for this light.

Fedtro wrote:

…and on the circumference 8 led XHP50.2 or even better XHP50.3.

I think XHP50.2 will be an option. I. Guessing these will be 3V, so no option for warmer CCTs.

XHP50.3 would be a nice surprise. Acebeam and Imalent have announced lights with HI versions of these, with a load more throw than non-HI versions.

What would make most sense to compliment the LEP here? Something super-floody that’s the opposite of a LEP? Or something still quite throwy so the LEP looks more like a distance boost instead of a completely different light?

I think XHP50.2 would be the best option but 8 * W2 or SFT40 would be really cool too.

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Would be most useful to me if the LEDs were really floody, but still had good throw. Unlikely to want to switch from long range spotlight to flood, more like spot, then search.

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dave1010 wrote:
Fedtro wrote:

I would like to have 4* 21700 batteries like Thrunite T42 V2 ...

How's the TN42 V2 to handle? I have some 4 * 18650 and some 3 * 21700 lights but no 4 * 21700. I'd imagine the diameter of 4 * 21700 would be a bit much to hold for long periods. The extra run time is good but I doubt the cell would make much difference in turbo output: the Acebeam X50 and Imalent MS08 both power 8 XHP70.2 LEDs with 3 cells. I actually really like 3 * 18650 but that doesn't seem like enough for this light.
Fedtro wrote:

...and on the circumference 8 led XHP50.2 or even better XHP50.3.

I think XHP50.2 will be an option. I. Guessing these will be 3V, so no option for warmer CCTs. XHP50.3 would be a nice surprise. Acebeam and Imalent have announced lights with HI versions of these, with a load more throw than non-HI versions. What would make most sense to compliment the LEP here? Something super-floody that's the opposite of a LEP? Or something still quite throwy so the LEP looks more like a distance boost instead of a completely different light? I think XHP50.2 would be the best option but 8 * W2 or SFT40 would be really cool too.

 

Dave I'm fine with TN42 V2 I give you two sizes to understand: TN42 handle diameter 570mm with 4 * 21700, EC06 diameter with 3 * 21700 540mm, Wildtrail WT90 diameter with 3 * 21700 550mm, Imalent MS08 diameter with shell and 3 * 21700 600mm. They are minimal differences even the MS08 is 30mm wider than TN42 but it grips very well ... so I prefer 4 * 21700 batteries if I have to choose.

Fedtro
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 ...Sorry for the extra zero Dave I told you I was doing a job and I added one too many zero.

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dave1010 wrote:
Lumeniac wrote:

hope it will be NO plastic lense, like Olight did. it seems to collect scrathes just after you look at it. super tender plastic in this lense .

That sounds like a bad design band not something I’d expect from Olight.

The Lumintop Thor 2 and 3 definitely have a glass lens. AFAIK the Thor 1 does too.

The problem with big glass lenses in these larger lights is one drop and the lens probably shatters.

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Fedtro wrote:

 …Sorry for the extra zero Dave I told you I was doing a job and I added one too many zero.

LOL! 570mm is a bit large for a flashlight… Unless you’re talking about one like this.

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dave1010 wrote:
Fedtro wrote:

 ...Sorry for the extra zero Dave I told you I was doing a job and I added one too many zero.

LOL! 570mm is a bit large for a flashlight... Unless you're talking about one like this. !{width:50%}https://i.imgur.com/sF6R2i5.png!:https://i.imgur.com/sF6R2i5.png[/quote]

But does it take a license for something like this?

 

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This one sure is a performer. Nothing less than XHP50.x. Better yet make it XHP70.x and break some records. Is this going to have Anduril?

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flightless22 wrote:
This one sure is a performer. Nothing less than XHP50.x. Better yet make it XHP70.x and break some records.

XHP70.2 would be awesome and put it along side the Acebeam X50, Imalent MS08 and Manker MK38 in terms of lumens. I don’t think that’s the case though but we’ll have to wait and see. My guess is that it will be more like the Astrolux EC06.

I’d be quite keen on 6 * SFT40 LEDs to give a good amount of throw.

flightless22 wrote:
Is this going to have Anduril?

Anduril would be great IMO but I know some people are against its complexity.

Lumintop have lots of Anduril lights but also many with Narsil or their own UI.

Lumintop have a dual channel FW4X, which uses their own UI with a separate coding mode for selecting the tint. I don’t think they’ll use that UI here, as quickly switching between LED and LEP whilst on is important.

I believe LEPs need constant current drivers (at least most LEPs don’t seem to use PWM). There aren’t many Anduril lights that use constant current drivers.

Aside from Anduril, I think an ideal UI would be:

  • Click to turn on or off
  • Hold while off for moon
  • Hold while on to change brightness
  • Double click for turbo
  • Triple click to change channels

IIRC this is what the Wurkkos HD20 does.

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Interesting concept. Would prefer a more affordable 18650 LEP though.

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I’m sure LEPs will keep coming down in price but they’re still a long way from being an easy decision over an aspheric like the $45 Convoy Z1.

The Lumintop Thor I is around $130 when on offer and you can get the extension tube for $8.

There’s a Richfire LEP that I reviewed and can be had for $90 with the right discount but is only about 200kcd: https://1lumen.com/review/richfire-lep-flashlight-sfc-039/ – I bet we’ll see cheaper and better ones next year.

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Can LED and LEP be used at the same time?
yes, it can be used at same time.

Cells: 3 or 4
4×18650 in prototype, production should be 21700

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Thanks Neal! Good to see you here.

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Neal wrote:
Can LED and LEP be used at the same time?
yes, it can be used at same time.

Cells: 3 or 4
4×18650 in prototype, production should be 21700

Neal, while you’re here do you think you could reply to me about the missing item from my last order? The titanium bezel that was not included in the package with all of the lenses (used the “additional $5 shipping fee” per your instructions). It’s been many weeks and I sent a few emails to the same address we had been using, no reply. I hate to start a Paypal claim and have been very patient. Thanks.

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Some more photos from Neal:

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It seems to be an evolved version of FENIX LR40R
It is wonderful that the center chip is LEP
I think the battery size should be 18650 because the body gets thicker.
I’m looking forward to the release, waiting for the official model announcement

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I forgot about the LR40R. There’s a few other lights with a ring of LEDs around a more throwy one:

Fenix LR40R

Olight Marauder 2

Acebeam X10

Acebeam X70

LM Toolworks x PhotonX Grand Tala

I’m looking forward to the LEP+LED combo but I wonder if they’ll make a LED+LED version too.

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