[Discussion] VEZERLEZER Tail Clicky Flashlight User Interface Discussion

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Lezer
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[Discussion] VEZERLEZER Tail Clicky Flashlight User Interface Discussion

Hi BLF friends,

We are planning to develop a tail clicky flashlight, the look above is not fixed, neither the User Interface, which comes below. Please check and comment to express how your opinion and suggestions. Thanks.

ON/OFF:
Click on tail switch to turn ON/OFF the light, tap to turn momentary on, double tap to turn on Turbo(Mode 1)/Strobe(Mode 2)

Output Selection:
From ON, click on side switch to select from Moonlight-Eco-Low-Med-High.

Instant Turbo(Mode 1): From ON, double click on the side switch, to activate Turbo, click to return to the previous status.

Instant Strobe(Mode 2): From ON, double click on the side switch, to activate Strobe, click to return to the previous status.

Instant SOS: From ON, Triple click on the side switch to activate SOS.

Moonlight startup: Press and hold the side switch+click the tail switch.

Mode switching: When the light is on, press and hold the side switch for 5s to activate mode switching, there are 2 modes, Mode 1(Turbo-Turbo-Turbo) and Mode2 (Strobe-Turbo-Storbe-Turbo) release during which mode to switch into that mode.

Edited by: Lezer on 03/01/2022 - 01:52
Johm
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I don’t think people here are very invested to strobe and sos modes.
It’s ok to have them but not so easily accessible that they get in the way.

So from these my vote is option 1 on all.

I really like the looks/drawing of this flashlight.

Any other information available at this point?

Best of luck with your endeavors.

Quadrupel
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Mechanical switch is obsolete. It just additional resistance in circuit

stephenk
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Johm wrote:
I don’t think people here are very invested to strobe and sos modes.
It’s ok to have them but not so easily accessible that they get in the way.

So from these my vote is option 1 on all.

I really like the looks/drawing of this flashlight.

Any other information available at this point?

Best of luck with your endeavors.


Some of us like strobes. The push for hidden strobes has resulted in light painting photographers having slim pickings. Having a UI that can both hide strobes and memorise strobes is a good solution, then everyone is happy.
Lixivium
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I just read a review of another one of your lights. Good luck with your future endeavors.

https://old.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/t3qfjg/vezerlezer_ed10_revi...

Lezer
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Johm wrote:
I don’t think people here are very invested to strobe and sos modes.
It’s ok to have them but not so easily accessible that they get in the way.

So from these my vote is option 1 on all.

I really like the looks/drawing of this flashlight.

Any other information available at this point?

Best of luck with your endeavors.

Hi Johm, thanks for the information, we are thinking a multi-mode flashlight, so for members here, you can choose mode 1, and mode 2 for people like police or security men who needs strobe.

So far no more information to unveil, if you have more questions, you can ask here.

At last, thanks for your wish.

Lezer
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stephenk wrote:
Johm wrote:
I don’t think people here are very invested to strobe and sos modes.
It’s ok to have them but not so easily accessible that they get in the way.

So from these my vote is option 1 on all.

I really like the looks/drawing of this flashlight.

Any other information available at this point?

Best of luck with your endeavors.


Some of us like strobes. The push for hidden strobes has resulted in light painting photographers having slim pickings. Having a UI that can both hide strobes and memorise strobes is a good solution, then everyone is happy.

Hi Stephenk, in this case we will think about adding Mode 3 to have memorise Strobe.

Lezer
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Quadrupel wrote:
Mechanical switch is obsolete. It just additional resistance in circuit

Not sure if other members will agree with you.

Do you agree with Quadrupel about the switch, please comment below to let us know. Thanks.

tactical_grizzly
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How will this be different than all the other dual-switch lights available right now? Wowtac, Wurkkos, Sofirn, Thrunite, and many other brands have already saturated the market with $30-50 lights just like this, with a mechanical forward clicky switch on the tail for on/off, an electronic switch on the side for changing modes, and USB recharging. What features do you plan to add that will make this light competitive with what’s already available?

I think offering multiple, popular LED options would be a great start. Perhaps you could offer SFT40 for users who want maximum brightness and throw, and also offer Nichia 519A (de-domed) for users who want nice color temperature, tint (DUV), and CRI.

Offering this light at a low price point with a switching driver would be compelling too. The offerings from those other companies I mentioned mostly use low-efficiency direct drive.

The inclusion of a shortcut to moonlight (hold side switch while pressing tail switch) is a great idea. I had an Olight M1X years ago that had that feature. It’s very useful and none of the competitive options on the market currently have that feature.

Serlite
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The UI looks in line with other lights on the market, but I think the shortcut to Turbo from the tailswitch is a great idea!
I’m interested to see how you approach this, since lights that do this tend to have an e-switch/driver in the tail – but that’d require a signal tube if you had another e-switch in the head.
If you can make this work with a mechanical tailswitch, I think that’d give us the best of both worlds (0 parasitic drain and some shortcuts still available).

I don’t have much of an opinion on Strobe, but I know security employees sometimes like that.
If it can be hidden by switching between modes and it makes the light more marketable, then I’m all for it.

Lezer
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tactical_grizzly wrote:
How will this be different than all the other dual-switch lights available right now? Wowtac, Wurkkos, Sofirn, Thrunite, and many other brands have already saturated the market with $30-50 lights just like this, with a mechanical forward clicky switch on the tail for on/off, an electronic switch on the side for changing modes, and USB recharging. What features do you plan to add that will make this light competitive with what’s already available?

I think offering multiple, popular LED options would be a great start. Perhaps you could offer SFT40 for users who want maximum brightness and throw, and also offer Nichia 519A (de-domed) for users who want nice color temperature, tint (DUV), and CRI.

Offering this light at a low price point with a switching driver would be compelling too. The offerings from those other companies I mentioned mostly use low-efficiency direct drive.

The inclusion of a shortcut to moonlight (hold side switch while pressing tail switch) is a great idea. I had an Olight M1X years ago that had that feature. It’s very useful and none of the competitive options on the market currently have that feature.

Now it is quite difficult to make innovation in flashlight, so user experience is the point we pay most attention to, and that is why we here to ask suggestion. Common flashlight users they don’t use flashlight as members here do, if you are quite satisfied with the user interface then, it should be okay for the common users.

Regards the emitter, SFT40 and Nichia 519A are both nice, this suggestion will inspire us when developing this flashlight.

Quadrupel
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Fact is a fact, mechanical switch increasing resistance in circuit. Try to make quality and sell it cheap. Copy Zebralight host and electronics, load Anduril and sell it for half price! Wink

Lezer
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Quadrupel wrote:
Fact is a fact, mechanical switch increasing resistance in circuit. Try do make quality and sell it cheap. Copy Zebralight host and electronics, load Anduril and sell it for half price! Wink

What do you like about Zebralight host and elctronics?

Unheard
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Lezer wrote:
Quadrupel wrote:
Mechanical switch is obsolete. It just additional resistance in circuit

Not sure if other members will agree with you.

Do you agree with Quadrupel about the switch, please comment below to let us know. Thanks.


Yes and no. A forward clicky allows for momentary light, which is a typical ‘tactical’ feature. A reverse clicky would be nonsense along with a side switch.

An EDC light should not have a mechanical button imo.

A good FC+sideswitch UI includes switching the light off with the side switch. So:

FC on:

Click – on (memory) and off
Long press from off – Moon
Double click – switch between max and last mode
Hold – cycle through modes

However, lights with similar features are ubiquitious. Why should I buy your light? Smile

Invest in developing an efficient driver and take some more money for the expensive parts instead of competing with Sofirn/Wurkkos. That said, your temperature regulation algorithm is not bad. Response is a little slow, but better than the regulation (if there’s any) of many other lights. Congrats for this.

Think about energy management. You lights should not just go out. Calculate 10 to 20 minutes on low at the end of battery life.

Carefully design a clip. The light should point downwards, the clip should be fixed with screws.

Let it have a massive shelf to take some heat, a couple of mm length more is not important.

Forget pressing the last lumen out of it by using cw emitters. Choose SST40 in 5700 or, even better, 5000K.

Get yourself a TrustFire T11R and be better than this light. It is hard to beat, but if you manage to do it, you can sell it.

BTW, the collar-less switch is good. FC should always be freely accessible.

You’re welcome.

Spitzbube.

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Lezer wrote:
What do you like about Zebralight host and elctronics?

What’s not to like?

Spitzbube.

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Unheard wrote:
the clip should be fixed with screws

I disagree. Screws hold the clip firmly, but they also lock the clip down to a single position. Some users like to be able to adjust the clip’s position to align with the side switch, to be opposite the side switch, or anywhere in-between.

The best solution for a clip that can be adjusted but also stays firmly in place is a collar-style clip, paired with un-anodized tail threads. The tailcap can be loosened for clip adjustments, then tightened down to hold the clip just as firmly as screws.

It’s also difficult to have precise enough machining tolerances that a screw-in clip would always line up the same way on different samples. The only reason Zebralight can get away with it is that the clip attaches to the unibody head/tube.

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In a crowded marketplace a small but distinct difference might ignite interest and spell success. I was thinking that an instant on feature is very different, none of the dozens I own has anything like it. From vertical to horizontal it switches on, like the light on my Casio watch. Give a little shake and it turns on. Gimmick? Gimmick is a nasty word for interesting.

texas shooter
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For the last few years I carry what I think is the best duty light. Physical tail switch for strictly on/off and momentary use with pressure. Side switch for mode selection only with double tap for turbo and double tap again for strobe. Modes are moonlight, low, medium, high. I just retired after 27 years in law enforcement, physical tail switches on a duty belt light is very important. No accidental switching on, no parasitic drain, instant one handed finding and use. Really needs to stay in one mode only while working the tail switch. Scrolling through the modes while working traffic, building searches is not a good thing. I’ve never used S.O.S. but have used strobe to guide ambulances over, get peoples attention or signal where I’m at or where to look. In light rich areas like parking lots, streets and shopping centers strobe set you apart from other lights.

So I’m going to respectfully disagree with a few here and state that Physical tail switches are still important in tool lights.

Lezer
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SpeedB wrote:
In a crowded marketplace a small but distinct difference might ignite interest and spell success. I was thinking that an instant on feature is very different, none of the dozens I own has anything like it. From vertical to horizontal it switches on, like the light on my Casio watch. Give a little shake and it turns on. Gimmick? Gimmick is a nasty word for interesting.

Very interesting, imagine you raise a flashlight and then it turns on automatically.

Lezer
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texas shooter wrote:
For the last few years I carry what I think is the best duty light. Physical tail switch for strictly on/off and momentary use with pressure. Side switch for mode selection only with double tap for turbo and double tap again for strobe. Modes are moonlight, low, medium, high. I just retired after 27 years in law enforcement, physical tail switches on a duty belt light is very important. No accidental switching on, no parasitic drain, instant one handed finding and use. Really needs to stay in one mode only while working the tail switch. Scrolling through the modes while working traffic, building searches is not a good thing. I’ve never used S.O.S. but have used strobe to guide ambulances over, get peoples attention or signal where I’m at or where to look. In light rich areas like parking lots, streets and shopping centers strobe set you apart from other lights.

So I’m going to respectfully disagree with a few here and state that Physical tail switches are still important in tool lights.

You are right, physical tail switches features no accidental switching on, and no parasitic drain, instant one handed finding and use.

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Accidental turn on depends on host construction not the button and with E-switch you can lock with soft. “Parasitic”(IC standby) drain is so low that will take years to deplete battery, same as self batt discharge.

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Serlite wrote:
The UI looks in line with other lights on the market, but I think the shortcut to Turbo from the tailswitch is a great idea!
I’m interested to see how you approach this, since lights that do this tend to have an e-switch/driver in the tail – but that’d require a signal tube if you had another e-switch in the head.
If you can make this work with a mechanical tailswitch, I think that’d give us the best of both worlds (0 parasitic drain and some shortcuts still available).

I don’t have much of an opinion on Strobe, but I know security employees sometimes like that.
If it can be hidden by switching between modes and it makes the light more marketable, then I’m all for it.

People who actually need to use strobe like single click access to strobe, not fumbling through a user interface to find the hidden strobe as per most flashlight UIs at the moment.
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stephenk wrote:
People who actually need to use strobe like single click access to strobe, not fumbling through a user interface to find the hidden strobe as per most flashlight UIs at the moment.

Vezerlezer appears to be suggesting the use of different mode groups in the UI. Perhaps one group could be basic EDC style with a few different brightness levels and no blinkies. Then another group could be just Turbo and Strobe where they are memorized, then light painters could use that second mode group with strobe memorized.

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Unheard wrote:
Lezer wrote:
What do you like about Zebralight host and elctronics?
What’s not to like?

- Tolerances are sometimes off. Glass may rattle. Switch cover may be overly squishy.
- Sometimes there’s high parasitic drain.
- User interface takes a bit of getting used to and is buggy. Both my HI and LE randomly get “stuck” on and the button becomes unresponsive.
- A few customers allegedly received low CRI emitters in their SC64c LE when they should’ve been high CRI.

That said, I love how small the LE is and moonlight mode. The efficiency is nice.

stephenk
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tactical_grizzly wrote:
stephenk wrote:
People who actually need to use strobe like single click access to strobe, not fumbling through a user interface to find the hidden strobe as per most flashlight UIs at the moment.

Vezerlezer appears to be suggesting the use of different mode groups in the UI. Perhaps one group could be basic EDC style with a few different brightness levels and no blinkies. Then another group could be just Turbo and Strobe where they are memorized, then light painters could use that second mode group with strobe memorized.

This seems to be what they plan, a user interface that keeps everyone happy.
Lezer
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stephenk wrote:
tactical_grizzly wrote:
stephenk wrote:
People who actually need to use strobe like single click access to strobe, not fumbling through a user interface to find the hidden strobe as per most flashlight UIs at the moment.

Vezerlezer appears to be suggesting the use of different mode groups in the UI. Perhaps one group could be basic EDC style with a few different brightness levels and no blinkies. Then another group could be just Turbo and Strobe where they are memorized, then light painters could use that second mode group with strobe memorized.

This seems to be what they plan, a user interface that keeps everyone happy.

We hope so.

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It’s hard if not impossible to design a UI that can please everyone. Ask 10 people for opinions on a UI and you’ll get 23 answers.

If you want to design a “tactical” or “duty” light, design the light with a UI geared towards that.

If you want an “EDC” light, design a UI geared towards that.

Nb: “UI” means both the software (“how many clicks”) and the hardware (side- and tailswitches).

A good compromise is the Sofirn C8F, which has both side-/tailswitch. The tailswitch is simple for hard on/off (plus momentary), and the sideswitch is only for mode-changes.

If you include a “standby” mode, you can have the tailswitch on but the light off, and be able to press’n‘hold for moonlight, 2click for turbo, etc.

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

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Lezer, I’ve been searching for a tactical light for a good while. I’ll tell you the closest thing I found to suit my needs and what’s its missing:

Fenix PD36 TAC, nice tactile switch, well spaced modes for its purpose, very wide close range beam and easily accessible switch and rotary selector. What I don’t like is the strobe which nobody ever uses for anything meaningful and the very low sustained output, it drops to less than 800 lumens rendering the 3,000 and 2,000 turbo modes meaningless in a real life use.

DON’T BE AFRAID TO LET THE FLASHLIGHT GET HOT. this is a tactical flashlight supposed to be used in a life threatening scenario, I’d much rather get my hands uncomfortably warm than losing light in a critical situation.

Whatever your UI is going to be, either integrate PID temp regulation or set a higher treshold for the output drop.

Lightbringer wrote:
It’s hard if not impossible to design a UI that can please everyone. Ask 10 people for opinions on a UI and you’ll get 23 answers.

+1

People will ask for 0.05lm ultra moon and candle mode in a tactical flashlight…

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Lightbringer will34, thank you for the input, agree “it is hard if not impossible to design a UI that can please everyone’‘, but hope to consult from you experienced BLF members to get more inspiration, so that light will not turn out to be bad.