noob questions about cree emitters

14 posts / 0 new
Last post
vincenthooi
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/05/2010 - 09:45
Posts: 15
Location: Malaysia
noob questions about cree emitters

so im new here and my head is jumbled with all sorts of questions regarding high powered emitters

 

what is xpe, xpg, xre MCE,p4,p7......
which is the best?

brightest?

efficient?

what is the latest model?

what upcoming leds should i look out for?

 

sorry for dumping all the questions at once.

forgive me if this question has been posted before. i cant find it thru the search 

 

thank you

how2
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 06/01/2010 - 10:26
Posts: 2489
Location: london

Hi welcome

 

Take a look at this:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=270419

It should answer all you questions

Don
Don's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 1 month ago
Joined: 01/12/2010 - 16:32
Posts: 6617
Location: Scotland

Essentially the Cree family goes as follows:

XR-C/XP-C. the C stands for Cheap. Avoid

XR-E Formerly the mainstream Cree product - at least for use in torches. Notorious for its "Cree Rings" probably caused by the metal ring around the emitting die. Still the best for devices wanting a lot of throw. Have been driven at silly current with a great deal of success.

XP-G Current mainstream device. More efficient than the XR-E but a larger emitting area so needs a bigger reflector to get the same throw as an XR-E.

XP-E Essentially similar to the XP-G but designed for a lower current (Its maximum is 1A, the XP-G can handle 1.5A)

MC-E Basically 4 XR-E dies in a single package. Useful for flood type lights and where you need silly amounts of light. Needs 2.8A for best output. Tend to show a dark cross in the centre of the beam.

 

P4 is an SSC (Seoul Semiconductor - they are made in Korea) LED though these are not common now. The SSC P4 LED was handy as a drop-in replacement for the Lumileds Luxeon 3 LEDs. In one such swap I got three times the light output for twice as long. They are still great for upgrading older Luxeon 3 lights as they have the same beam pattern as the Luxeons. Cree reflectors are quite different.

P7 is a quad die LED like the MC-E - in fact the light emitting bit of it is made for SSC by Cree. The phosphors are SSCs own and many prefer the beam from P7 LEDs to that from MC-E LEDs.

 

Currently the most fashionable one would be the Cree XP-G R5 as it can produce seriously large amounts of light when driven properly. I got nearly 300 lumens out of an AA light with an XP-G R5 bin LED in it. The S2 bin (About 7% brighter) is just becoming available.

 

The numbers from my light tests are always to be found here.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ApkFM37n_QnRdDU5MDNzOURjYllmZHI...

how2
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 06/01/2010 - 10:26
Posts: 2489
Location: london

Don wrote:

 

XR-C/XP-C. the C stands for Cheap. Avoid

 

 

If someone sold a cheap light, then I would buy one.

Don
Don's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 1 month ago
Joined: 01/12/2010 - 16:32
Posts: 6617
Location: Scotland

how2 wrote:

Don wrote:

 

XR-C/XP-C. the C stands for Cheap. Avoid

 

 

If someone sold a cheap light, then I would buy one.

 

OK - I'll rephrase that. The C stands for "Not Very Good"

 

The numbers from my light tests are always to be found here.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ApkFM37n_QnRdDU5MDNzOURjYllmZHI...

vincenthooi
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/05/2010 - 09:45
Posts: 15
Location: Malaysia

thanks for the link how2

 

thanks for the detailed explanation, don that really helped me understanding the multiple emitters out there.

 

i have some further noob questions tho. what is bin?

 

if i wanted a silly bright out of box 18650 torch without modification under $25 what should i get?

im looking for both throwy and floody light.(i mean 2 lights. one thowy and one floody)

and also out of box silly bright AA battery torch  under $15

Don
Don's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 1 month ago
Joined: 01/12/2010 - 16:32
Posts: 6617
Location: Scotland

vincenthooi wrote:

i have some further noob questions tho. what is bin?

 

if i wanted a silly bright out of box 18650 torch without modification under $25 what should i get?

im looking for both throwy and floody light.(i mean 2 lights. one thowy and one floody)

and also out of box silly bright AA battery torch  under $15

The LEDs are sorted after they are made. Probably quite literally into bins. The process used means that LEDs do differ so they are sorted by colour and output. We usually talk about the brightness bins - for example R5 where any single-die Cree LED (i.e., not the MC-E and some others) rated R5 will output between 139 and 148 lumens when fed a current of 350mA. A P4 bin will produce between 80.4 and 87.6 lumens at 350mA. There can be considerable variation in the voltage at which an LED will light up (The forward voltage or Vf). LEDs are not normally binned by Vf though this can be important for some applications.

 

Are you prepared to use lithium ion cells? Most of the really bright AA lights need the 4.2V to give their maximum output. From those that do well with NiMH (No bright AA light will do very well on alkaline batteries, they just can't provide the required current for long, if at all.) I'd personally recommend the Hugsby P31/P32 ($13.57 and a great deal) which cannot be used with lithium ion cells. The $19.60 EastwardYJ J09 works well with NiMH cells. I think it is as bright as any currently available light will get with NiMH cells - as in 50% brighter than anything else I have. It cannot be used with lithium ion cells either.

If you do have 14500 cells (AA sized lithium ion cells which charge up to 4.2V) then it just has to be the $18.11 Trustfire R5-A3 which is crazy bright on 14500, but dimmer than the two above with NiMH.

I like the MrLite J4 but haven't played with tested it much yet. It is pretty big for an AA light, even bigger than the Trustfire F22.

http://www.lightake.com/detail.do/sku.33098

 

If you can find a 93mm long Ultrafire C3 Stainless Steel with a Q5 or better emitter, it is one of the best AA lights out there. I think mine cost a little over $14.

 

The $20 Ultrafire WF-501B gives loads of light with an 18650. 

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39359

It is more of a floody than a throw light. I keep mine at the back door for spotting my assistant at night.

The best thrower I have is the RQ from KD - it is over $25 but not by a lot. It will project a dot of light a very long way.

http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=5558

 

The new Ultrafire C3

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.44254

is very bright but the design isn't the best. I own more Ultrafire C3s than any other light. It is also within your budget. Mine is a permanent fixture in my work bag.

 

I have several orders outstanding just now all of which contain AA/14500 lights. Once they arrive I may have different opinions but that is what I'd recommend from what I have.

 

The numbers from my light tests are always to be found here.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ApkFM37n_QnRdDU5MDNzOURjYllmZHI...

how2
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 06/01/2010 - 10:26
Posts: 2489
Location: london

vincenthooi wrote:

thanks for the link how2

 

thanks for the detailed explanation, don that really helped me understanding the multiple emitters out there.

 

i have some further noob questions tho. what is bin?

 

if i wanted a silly bright out of box 18650 torch without modification under $25 what should i get?

im looking for both throwy and floody light.(i mean 2 lights. one thowy and one floody)

and also out of box silly bright AA battery torch  under $15


 So you want to spend $65 in total on 3 lights.  With the AA light do you want to us 14500 li-ion batteries?

how2
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 06/01/2010 - 10:26
Posts: 2489
Location: london

Lights that throw:

MRV $20.84

http://www.focalprice.com/LF522B/MRV_Super_Bright_LED_FlashlightTorch_Bl...

 

UniqueFire M8 Cree R2-WC 250-Lumen LED Flashlight - Grey (1*18650/2*16340)

http://www.everbuying.com/UniqueFire-M8-Cree-R2-WC-250-Lumen-LED-Flashli...

These are both great lights. The MRV is slightly better but costs more.

 

Don
Don's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 1 month ago
Joined: 01/12/2010 - 16:32
Posts: 6617
Location: Scotland

The MRV is a more useful general purpose light than the RQ as well.

 

The numbers from my light tests are always to be found here.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ApkFM37n_QnRdDU5MDNzOURjYllmZHI...

vincenthooi
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 11/05/2010 - 09:45
Posts: 15
Location: Malaysia

wow thx for the quick replies. you guys are the best .

thumbs up

 

@how2 the AA version will use alkalines. i cant afford NiMh Silly
wierd but true: alkaline here is dirt cheap. i can buy a pack of 4 decent alkaline for less than 80 cents

plz dont ask my why i have budget for the 18650 batteries+flashlights but not for a pack of NiMh. cuz i dont really have the answer haha


i think im gonna try the C3s and the sku.39359

 

thx

Vectrex
Vectrex's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
Joined: 05/01/2010 - 15:39
Posts: 2778
Location: Gemany (according to my Black Cat)

vincenthooi wrote:

i think im gonna try the C3s and the sku.39359

 

I hope you have better luck with the aluminum C3s than I had.

agenthex
agenthex's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 1 month ago
Joined: 07/14/2010 - 04:49
Posts: 3070
Location: Merica

If you want the brightest AA, buy the c78 from LT. They're shipping the real original versions instead of DX "2nd/3rd/4th batch" fakes.

 

It's $10, draws 2A, and brighter than any other light I have at same draw even though the zoom optic is not necessarily as efficient as a reflector.

 

I'm guess it's a real Q4/Q5. Most "Q5"'s that you see on these sites are MUCH lower bins. I mostly ignore the bin claims, along with just about everything in the specs.

Reading this makes you smarter: http://lesswrong.com/

brted
brted's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 01/12/2010 - 19:44
Posts: 2371
Location: Atlanta

Also don't forget there is a lot of good information on the CPF Wiki: http://www.cpfwiki.com/Wiki/index.php/Main_Page

A good starting point there is the Terminology page: http://www.cpfwiki.com/Wiki/index.php/Terminology

There is a page about Cree LED's: http://www.cpfwiki.com/Wiki/index.php/Cree

About bins: http://www.cpfwiki.com/Wiki/index.php/Brightness_Bins