Convoy S21D w/ legendary Nichia 219b :) - Review & comparison w/ Nichia 519a, E21a & other LEDs & lights (D4V2, Convoy S21F).

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cannga
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You are very welcome. S21D’s optics will not fit Emisar.

Are you trying to make your Emisar more floody with the frosted 10623? The negative side is it will reduce throw and make hotspot very dim. Subjectively in my Emisar D4V2 with E21a for example, it makes the hotspot subjectively too dim for my taste. Hank uses 10623 in D4V2 with E21a LED (not 219b) because E21a has a yellow tint shift that needs to be “hidden”/diffused with the frosted optic. (219b doesn’t need this because it doesn’t have that tint shift.)

For Emisar with 219b, for me, the 10622 is the “perfect” optic: beautiful beam, great balance between throw and flood. For more throw, 10621 only increases throw a little bit when I tested it. So basically if you want more throw, then S21D with 10° Clear is the choice. I posted throw and optic info for both S21D and Emisar D4V2 earlier:

********

S21D with 219b 4500K
1. Sofirn ~10° Clear 170 m
2. Convoy 10° Clear 170 m
3. Convoy 10° Bead 157 m
4. Convoy 30° Bead 144 m
5. Convoy 60° Bead 113 m

S21D with 519a 4500K
Convoy 10° Clear 157 m (using same optic, 519a less throwy than 219b)

Emisar D4V2 219b 4500K
Carlo 10621 Clear 140 m
Carlo 10622 Clear 137 m

Emisar D4V2 E21a 4500K
Carlo 10621 Clear 174 m (using same optic, E21a is more throwy than 219b)
Carlo 10622 Clear 170 m
Carlo 10623 Frosted 111 m (frosted optic makes hotspot of D4V2 w/ E21a very dim)

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b, Getian GT-FC40, Luminus SBT90.2, Chinese LEDs in $100 20000+lm Lights SFH/SFN

Helpful & extremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

snfx
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When the new S21D releases, what LED & CCT you going for?

Do you think the H2 headlamp is better than the H1? I see the H1 comes with a 75degree optic instead of clear for H2

twisted raven
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10621 is more of a spot beam as opposed to a throwier beam than the 10622. 10622 gives a smaller, more concentrated hotspot, with a gradual taper to spill. 10622 gives a larger spot lit hotspot and minimal spill, however because the hotspot is wider, it’s not as focused. So it doesn’t surprise me the 10621 barely outthrows the 10622.

I wish carclo had something like a 30 degree beaded optic that hank could provide.

cannga
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snfx wrote:
When the new S21D releases, what LED & CCT you going for?

Do you think the H2 headlamp is better than the H1? I see the H1 comes with a 75degree optic instead of clear for H2

H2 is better for me because of my strong preference for USB-C charging. No experience with H1, but I LOVE everything about H2 as a walk light. Primarily because of its throwy beam (with good spill) and its sustained brightness (higher percentage of max than ANY other flashlights I’ve tested – check here). I have multiple headlamps, some expensive ones such as Fenix and Coast, and Convoy H2 with 219b 4500k is by far my most favorite. It’s heavy so you will need to have a headband with overhead strap. I could comment on some overhead straps (Olight, Skilhunt, Convoy) if you need to know.

For new S21D, most definitely 219b 4500k. With sideswitch and USB-C charging, I will use it a lot more than current S21D. I am not sure I would get 519a 4500k.

Beamshots of Emisar with various lenses. Test of optics (and Duv of Convoy green AR lenses) was the most fun :-), time consuming, and productive test on flashlight I’ve done. (My wife was very annoyed when I was doing this though.)

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b, Getian GT-FC40, Luminus SBT90.2, Chinese LEDs in $100 20000+lm Lights SFH/SFN

Helpful & extremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

snfx
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Any idea on the pricing of the new S21D? What do you think about the D4K as an alternative?

cannga
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Sorry no idea on S21D’s cost. Simon’s modus operandi still seems to be great lights at cheapest price possible Smile so I would guess $30.

D4K has different drivers (stock plus boost option) so output and runtime will be different from my D4V2, so no comment there. Use Anduril so stepdowns probably will take brightness to a lower level than Convoy’s 37% of max (my Anduril lights typically go to low 20%‘s from Turbo start https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1882887#comment-1882887 ), but the advantage is it will keep temp lower.

Seems to still be using Carlo Optic 1062x series (pls correct as needed) so same choice of TIR optics and beam should look similar to D4V2. For 219b 4500k I would still think 10622 is the most beautiful. It’s a great alternative to S21D.

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b, Getian GT-FC40, Luminus SBT90.2, Chinese LEDs in $100 20000+lm Lights SFH/SFN

Helpful & extremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

cannga
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For any Emisar fan like me lurking here, beamshots of Carlo optics 1062x series for D4V2.

BTW note the yellow tint shift of E21a; that’s why Hank uses frosted 10623 to diffuse/“hide” it. My test with TA lumen tube seems to indicate a 10% loss of light with it. For 219b 4500k personally I much prefer 10622 for a brighter central beam.

Such tint shift is also the reason when I use Opple Light Meter, I always make sure beam is perpendicular and Opple’s sensor lines up in 3D space with the center of the flashlight lens. Otherwise for example you may be measuring the tint shift instead of the central beam. These pictures took SO much time to do; can’t believe I did it. Facepalm Smile Hope it helps someone.

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b, Getian GT-FC40, Luminus SBT90.2, Chinese LEDs in $100 20000+lm Lights SFH/SFN

Helpful & extremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

snfx
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cannga wrote:
For any Emisar fan like me lurking here, beamshots of Carlo optics 1062x series for D4V2.

BTW note the yellow tint shift of E21a; that’s why Hank uses frosted 10623 to diffuse/“hide” it. My test with TA lumen tube seems to indicate a 10% loss of light with it. For 219b 4500k personally I much prefer 10622 for a brighter central beam.

Such tint shift is also the reason when I use Opple Light Meter, I always make sure beam is perpendicular and Opple’s sensor lines up in 3D space with the center of the flashlight lens. Otherwise for example you may be measuring the tint shift instead of the central beam. These pictures took SO much time to do; can’t believe I did it. Facepalm Smile Hope it helps someone.

!https://i.imgur.com/9FnaZ2W.jpg!

Thx for the beamshots! The 219b in the 10622 looks really good!

Evgeniy
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cannga wrote:
Even though the 8A Buck is not as bright at start, it has a much more gradual and gentle stepdown. In addition, it sustains brightness much better, settling in at ~750 lm.

8A Buck driver use constant current regulation on all modes or some modes use PWM ?

Flashlights : custom (Jaxman E2L with led4power LD-4 drivers and 3xOsram CQAR.CC), custom Skillhunt H03 with Osram 3К/4К, Zebralight {H600fc IV, Sc600fc IV}, Jaxman E2(N219b), Convoy S21D N519a 3.5K .

cannga
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Evgeniy wrote:
cannga wrote:
Even though the 8A Buck is not as bright at start, it has a much more gradual and gentle stepdown. In addition, it sustains brightness much better, settling in at ~750 lm.

8A Buck driver use constant current regulation on all modes or some modes use PWM ?

Hi there, no PWM on any mode per my Opple meter.
Stay safe.

snfx wrote:
Thx for the beamshots! The 219b in the 10622 looks really good!

You’re very welcome. And actually in the adjacent beamshot with Carlo 10621, I could see some tint shift creeping in around the “corona” area. So yeah for D4V2 I think no reason to replace 10622.

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b, Getian GT-FC40, Luminus SBT90.2, Chinese LEDs in $100 20000+lm Lights SFH/SFN

Helpful & extremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

snfx
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cannga wrote:
Evgeniy wrote:
cannga wrote:
Even though the 8A Buck is not as bright at start, it has a much more gradual and gentle stepdown. In addition, it sustains brightness much better, settling in at ~750 lm.

8A Buck driver use constant current regulation on all modes or some modes use PWM ?

Hi there, no PWM on any mode per my Opple meter.
Stay safe.

snfx wrote:
Thx for the beamshots! The 219b in the 10622 looks really good!

You’re very welcome. And actually in the adjacent beamshot with Carlo 10621, I could see some tint shift creeping in around the “corona” area. So yeah for D4V2 I think no reason to replace 10622.

what are your thoughts on the H2 as a Christmas gift? I don’t know if the new S21D will release in time

darosk
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What is this new S21D? I havent heard about it.

snfx
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darosk wrote:
What is this new S21D? I havent heard about it.

S21D with side switch + USB-C Charging

quahog
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snfx wrote:
darosk wrote:
What is this new S21D? I havent heard about it.

S21D with side switch + USB-C Charging

Last update was a month ago: https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1885344#comment-1885344

First mentioned here: https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1874432#comment-1874432

Been holding off on getting the S21D and waiting for this new one (maybe called S21F?)

darosk
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I hope it’s not using the e-switch ramping driver – because that would be a big downgrade for me.

cannga
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snfx wrote:
what are your thoughts on the H2 as a Christmas gift? I don’t know if the new S21D will release in time

As much as I love the H2, primarily because of its weight IMHO it’s not necessarily a good gift for muggles. For us it’s ok because we know its 219b beam color is unmatched and so is the sustained brightness, but a muggle wouldn’t necessarily appreciate the light the same way.

If it’s not a self gift Wink and for muggles, I am thinking Sofirn D25L (I have this, a little green but very floody and the perfect headlight for work around the house) or Sofirn D25S.

BTW I’ve found headlamps above 4 oz to be heavy enough that a headband with headstrap is required. This list includes my Coast, Fenix, and the 2 Convoys H2. The 2 Sofirn’s are below 4 oz and very comfortable to wear. Only negative is it’s micro USB or whatever the name is, and not USB C.

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b, Getian GT-FC40, Luminus SBT90.2, Chinese LEDs in $100 20000+lm Lights SFH/SFN

Helpful & extremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

snfx
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cannga wrote:
You are very welcome. S21D’s optics will not fit Emisar.

Are you trying to make your Emisar more floody with the frosted 10623? The negative side is it will reduce throw and make hotspot very dim. Subjectively in my Emisar D4V2 with E21a for example, it makes the hotspot subjectively too dim for my taste. Hank uses 10623 in D4V2 with E21a LED (not 219b) because E21a has a yellow tint shift that needs to be “hidden”/diffused with the frosted optic. (219b doesn’t need this because it doesn’t have that tint shift.)

For Emisar with 219b, for me, the 10622 is the “perfect” optic: beautiful beam, great balance between throw and flood. For more throw, 10621 only increases throw a little bit when I tested it. So basically if you want more throw, then S21D with 10° Clear is the choice. I posted throw and optic info for both S21D and Emisar D4V2 earlier:

********

S21D with 219b 4500K
1. Sofirn ~10° Clear 170 m
2. Convoy 10° Clear 170 m
3. Convoy 10° Bead 157 m
4. Convoy 30° Bead 144 m
5. Convoy 60° Bead 113 m

S21D with 519a 4500K
Convoy 10° Clear 157 m (using same optic, 519a less throwy than 219b)

Emisar D4V2 219b 4500K
Carlo 10621 Clear 140 m
Carlo 10622 Clear 137 m

Emisar D4V2 E21a 4500K
Carlo 10621 Clear 174 m (using same optic, E21a is more throwy than 219b)
Carlo 10622 Clear 170 m
Carlo 10623 Frosted 111 m (frosted optic makes hotspot of D4V2 w/ E21a very dim)

I ordered the optic pack for the S21D to try the 10 degree clear since I originally got the 60 degree option for mine. I also couldn’t resist adding the sm453 MAO S2+ to my cart lol

cannga
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snfx wrote:
I ordered the optic pack for the S21D to try the 10 degree clear since I originally got the 60 degree option for mine. I also couldn’t resist adding the sm453 MAO S2+ to my cart lol

Yes the 10 degree clear TIR is my favorite lens for S21D.
More throw yet still floody enough.

Can’t go wrong with another Convoy, especially one with MAO finish Smile .
I really like the MAO finish of my M21F with Nichia BAM.

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b, Getian GT-FC40, Luminus SBT90.2, Chinese LEDs in $100 20000+lm Lights SFH/SFN

Helpful & extremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

snfx
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cannga wrote:
snfx wrote:
I ordered the optic pack for the S21D to try the 10 degree clear since I originally got the 60 degree option for mine. I also couldn’t resist adding the sm453 MAO S2+ to my cart lol

Yes the 10 degree clear TIR is my favorite lens for S21D.
More throw yet still floody enough.

Can’t go wrong with another Convoy, especially one with MAO finish Smile .
I really like the MAO finish of my M21F with Nichia BAM.

!https://i.imgur.com/9hXsjE2.jpg!

The hanklight in the picture is beautiful!

If the MAO S2+ had a BAM version, I would’ve definitely got it.

Fingers crossed for a MAO version on the new S21D lol

cannga
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snfx wrote:

The hanklight in the picture is beautiful!

If the MAO S2+ had a BAM version, I would’ve definitely got it.

Fingers crossed for a MAO version on the new S21D lol

Thanks – that copper D4V2 sure is a pretty face Smile .
Yeah I don’t really need another light, but felt like the BAM led is “collectible” class.
Unfortunately per Simon new S21D is only black for now.

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b, Getian GT-FC40, Luminus SBT90.2, Chinese LEDs in $100 20000+lm Lights SFH/SFN

Helpful & extremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

snfx
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what y’all think about tint ramping 519a 2700k de-domed with a 5700k domed?

QReciprocity42
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snfx wrote:
what y'all think about tint ramping 519a 2700k de-domed with a 5700k domed?

One issue I can see is that since 1) angular tint shift makes the hotspot of a light warmer, and 2) this combination has throwy warm emitter and floody cool emitters, the resulting beam profile will have EXTREMELY bad tint shift, with an orange center and purple spill.

I would recommend keeping all emitters domed or dedomed, or to mix low CCT domed with high CCT dedomed.

phantom23
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cannga wrote:

IMHO 219b 4500k would be a great gift.


I disagree. The rosy-purplish “goodness” is revolting even for some flashaholics. The more creamy, sunlight-like tint of the 519 is easier for the eyes and easier to exaplain as a good thing.
cannga
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QReciprocity42 wrote:

snfx wrote:
what y’all think about tint ramping 519a 2700k de-domed with a 5700k domed?

One issue I can see is that since 1) angular tint shift makes the hotspot of a light warmer, and 2) this combination has throwy warm emitter and floody cool emitters, the resulting beam profile will have EXTREMELY bad tint shift, with an orange center and purple spill.

I would recommend keeping all emitters domed or dedomed, or to mix low CCT domed with high CCT dedomed.

Very interesting discussion as always, but could you explain the part I underlined?

Domed 519a (with the dome causing tint shift no?) has higher CCT than a dedomed 519a, so shouldn’t it be “angular tint shift makes hotspot of a LED/light cooler”?

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b, Getian GT-FC40, Luminus SBT90.2, Chinese LEDs in $100 20000+lm Lights SFH/SFN

Helpful & extremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

snfx
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QReciprocity42 wrote:

snfx wrote:
what y’all think about tint ramping 519a 2700k de-domed with a 5700k domed?

One issue I can see is that since 1) angular tint shift makes the hotspot of a light warmer, and 2) this combination has throwy warm emitter and floody cool emitters, the resulting beam profile will have EXTREMELY bad tint shift, with an orange center and purple spill.

I would recommend keeping all emitters domed or dedomed, or to mix low CCT domed with high CCT dedomed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hanklights/comments/zdaigg/asked_hank_what_his_...

I believed Hank went with this configuration so he could have full range of 2700k dd & 5700k domed

cannga
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I was disappointed the Nightwatch Chaos is not available to buy for Xmas gift, but I think this Wurkkos TS32 would more than ease the pain.

14000 lm of Nichia goodness from twelve 519a’s Love !!! in a soda can light. What I hope to use it for is to light up my front garden for viewing or night photography for example. A floody pattern of light AND a lot of light even for short moments would be great.

No doubt Wurkkos has been on a roll, releasing some great AND compelling inexpensive lights such as TS30s and TS10 (let’s not talk about TS21 lol ). I once thought Wurkkos is just Sofirn’s sidekick little brother, but somewhere along the line they’ve become a force to be reckoned with.

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b, Getian GT-FC40, Luminus SBT90.2, Chinese LEDs in $100 20000+lm Lights SFH/SFN

Helpful & extremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

QReciprocity42
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cannga wrote:
QReciprocity42 wrote:

snfx wrote:
what y'all think about tint ramping 519a 2700k de-domed with a 5700k domed?

One issue I can see is that since 1) +angular tint shift makes the hotspot of a light warmer+, and 2) this combination has throwy warm emitter and floody cool emitters, the resulting beam profile will have EXTREMELY bad tint shift, with an orange center and purple spill.

I would recommend keeping all emitters domed or dedomed, or to mix low CCT domed with high CCT dedomed.

Very interesting discussion as always, but could you explain the part I underlined? Domed 519a (with the dome causing tint shift no?) has higher CCT than a dedomed 519a, so shouldn't it be "angular tint shift makes hotspot of a LED/light cooler"?

Angular tint shift refers to variations in tint as a function of angle, within the same emitter. It does NOT refer to the CCT change going from domed to dedomed.

Domed LEDs tend to send bluish light forward and yellow-green light to the side. The emission collected by a reflector/TIR into the hotspot is mostly the sideways emission, which is warmer than the average/integrated CCT of the emitter, hence a warmer (and greener) hotspot.

QReciprocity42
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snfx wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hanklights/comments/zdaigg/asked_hank_what_his_... I believed Hank went with this configuration so he could have full range of 2700k dd & 5700k domed

If you are ok with angular tint shift, this is a completely fine configuration. If you care about beam consistency like me, this is not the way to go. It's all up to personal preference.

cannga
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QReciprocity42 wrote:
Domed LEDs tend to send bluish light forward and yellow-green light to the side. The emission collected by a reflector/TIR into the hotspot is mostly the sideways emission, which is warmer than the average/integrated CCT of the emitter, hence a warmer (and greener) hotspot.

Thanks very interesting; I think I got it now. Central is warmer but the integrated CCT is higher.
BTW your description fits exactly behavior of SBT90.2. I’ve always wondered why there is a slightly green-yellow central spot.

One more question pls – if I understand correctly: The dome causes a tint shift and that’s why in the 519a LED, de-doming lessens/eliminates (?) the tint shift? If so… why does my dome-less E21a has a “worse” tint shift than the domed 219b? Or why does it have a tint shift at all? TIA

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b, Getian GT-FC40, Luminus SBT90.2, Chinese LEDs in $100 20000+lm Lights SFH/SFN

Helpful & extremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

QReciprocity42
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cannga wrote:
One more question pls - if I understand correctly: The dome causes a tint shift and that's why in the 519a LED, de-doming lessens/eliminates (?) the tint shift? If so... why does my dome-less E21a has a "worse" tint shift than the domed 219b? Or why does it have a tint shift at all? TIA

That's an excellent question! Most LEDs, including the 519A, have a very uniform light-emitting surface: the intensity, CCT, and tint is consistent across the whole die. With these LEDs, dedoming reduces angular tint shift considerably, virtually eliminating it when paired with a good TIR optic.

The problem with E21A is that the light-emitting surface is not uniform. The intensity, CCT, and tint varies across different parts of the emitter, so the tint shift is going to be bad whether the emitter is domed or not. The only way to eliminate tint shift in this case is to run it as a mule, or to use heavily frosted optics to blend the beam as much as possible.

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