Convoy S21D w/ legendary Nichia 219b :) - Impression & comparison w/ Nichia 519a & E21a (in D4V2) & other LED's.

269 posts / 0 new
Last post
cannga
Online
Last seen: 14 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 01/04/2022 - 15:37
Posts: 393
Location: Palos Verdes, CA

NeutralFan wrote:
cannga wrote:
And if you are asking about dedomed 519a 4500k, which when dedomed becomes 3500k (? anyone correct me as needed), a fantastic alternative is 219b in 3500k form. Convoy doesn’t have 219b 3500k but Emisar does https://intl-outdoor.com/emisar-d4v2-high-power-led-flashlight.html. It is a LED with beautiful beam color and world class CRI of R9080, the very highest rating possible. The magenta tint of 219b 4500k could be too much (too magenta’ish lol) and at times I much prefer the color of 219b 3500k. More calming golden so to speak, without any trace of undesirable green. In other words, as “perfect” a 3500k LED as could be imho.

Based on the too many Smile Nichia comparisons that I’ve done, I suspect whether dedomed 519a 4500k (which I don’t have) is “better” than 219b 3500k will likely come down to personal preference.

It appears that Convoy does offer the S21D with sw35 D200 L2R 9080 LEDs. Agreed, it’s a terrific LED!

Yep so now Emisar 219b 3500k has competition with 21700 battery, and Simon also lists multiple CCT’s for 519a! Had I not already have so many lights that I don’t need Sick , I would not be able to resist. It feels like there’s competition between Hank and Simon and it’s great for us hobbyists.

The 219b 3500k has a warm golden light without any trace of green tint. It actually makes legendary 219b 4500k appear a little sterile (cold/“whitish”) in comparison. IMHO no Nichia collection is complete without 219b 3500k. Thumbs Up

Comparison beamshots below; taken with Canon DSLR with white balance fixed at 5000k as always. Please note a close-up shot in total darkness like this “intensifies” the colors; in actual use, please imagine the color of each LED would “fade” and become much less intense/saturated, less “colorful” so to speak. I am sure I also have picture of the 219b 3500k shining on my living room (the wall of truth lol), will find and post later.

cannga
Online
Last seen: 14 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 01/04/2022 - 15:37
Posts: 393
Location: Palos Verdes, CA

cannga wrote:
The saga continues – the on again off again availability of Opple Light Master Pro. For what seemed like an eternity the “Pro” version was not available anywhere, but now seems to be on Aliexpress. Waiting for a bigger sale is too painful so I bought it right away.

Fingers crossed that there’s no shenanigans and it’s the Pro and NOT the cheaper Series 2 that they will send me, but this is THE legit official store and it seems the item is already at transport hub so should be ok. If you’d like to get one, just make sure it’s the item on the right side (in the red square), where under “Color” it will say Pro (please don’t ask me why it’s under “Color” lol ). The other way to tell is of course the Pro is more expensive.

If you have multiple Nichia’s, this of course makes the hobby even more fun, but should be educational to check & compare CRI and DUV of all the light bulbs in the house, etc. also. It’s not going to be super accurate like the $600 meter that Simon uses, but like my usual motto for Convoy lights, at 40 bucks I’m not complaining Innocent .

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803116495145.html?spm=a2g0o.order_li...
!https://i.imgur.com/brJ57NZ.jpg!

Amazingly enough the Opple is already here at the local office – unprecedented 1 week speed from China. I can hardly wait and fingers crossed they shipped the correct version, the Pro. It should be fun. Party

PS: I just checked the Aliexpress website link above and it seems as of today they are out of the Pro version again. If interested I think you just have to keep checking as it seems availability is on/off every few days. Really I am re-naming this as the Opple Hen’s Teeth.

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 2 min ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 6228
Location: Central North America

snfx wrote:
would you say the 519a 4500k de-domed is the rosiest CCT?
None of my 519a are what I would call Rosy

sw45k is what I call Rosy:

519a dedomed cant touch this

cannga
Online
Last seen: 14 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 01/04/2022 - 15:37
Posts: 393
Location: Palos Verdes, CA

Caleb wrote:
cannga wrote:
snfx wrote:
cannga wrote:
FWIW from Aliexpress web site:
***************************************************

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803593026491.html?spm=a2g0o.productl...
12A FET driver, max output 12A, It is greatly affected by the battery voltage and internal resistance, and the current drops rapidly.

8A CC driver, constant current buck driver, As long as the battery voltage is greater than the LED VF value, the driver still maintains a high current output. In addition, the new 8A driver uses springs instead of copper posts.

Bead TIR lens makes the light much softer, The larger the angle of the lens, the more scattered the light.

Simon said 20 days for the 8A Buck drivers to be restocked and they will come with springs instead of the copper rod for the battery

Only 20 days? All things considered if it were me I would wait for the Buck driver version.

Agreed. For the 219b, I think a longer constant 2A per diode is much preferable to a more transitory 3A (with hardly noticeable increase in lumens and associated increase in heat).

Of course, this is all hypothetical for me based on my limited understanding of how these two drivers operate. It would be great to see runtime/lumens graph for both configurations.

Sure. It would make for a VERY interesting comparison of real world results of 2 different drivers, 8A Buck vs 12A FET, in otherwise-identical lights.

There are other aspects to consider, equally interesting. What if your usage is short duration on/off burst lasting for say, less than minute, and not constant on as in a runtime graph? Would the FET version be better because of more brightness despite of maybe worse runtime graph? What about battery, will high current capacity Samsung 40T now make a difference? Will the FET version be the brightest quad 219b ever, making it more useful as a walk light?

First person to do this comparison gets my vote for reviewer of the year Smile .

Caleb
Caleb's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 5 hours ago
Joined: 03/13/2016 - 01:28
Posts: 757

cannga wrote:
Caleb wrote:
cannga wrote:
snfx wrote:
cannga wrote:
FWIW from Aliexpress web site:
***************************************************

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803593026491.html?spm=a2g0o.productl...
12A FET driver, max output 12A, It is greatly affected by the battery voltage and internal resistance, and the current drops rapidly.

8A CC driver, constant current buck driver, As long as the battery voltage is greater than the LED VF value, the driver still maintains a high current output. In addition, the new 8A driver uses springs instead of copper posts.

Bead TIR lens makes the light much softer, The larger the angle of the lens, the more scattered the light.

Simon said 20 days for the 8A Buck drivers to be restocked and they will come with springs instead of the copper rod for the battery

Only 20 days? All things considered if it were me I would wait for the Buck driver version.

Agreed. For the 219b, I think a longer constant 2A per diode is much preferable to a more transitory 3A (with hardly noticeable increase in lumens and associated increase in heat).

Of course, this is all hypothetical for me based on my limited understanding of how these two drivers operate. It would be great to see runtime/lumens graph for both configurations.

Sure. It would make for a VERY interesting comparison of real world results of 2 different drivers, 8A Buck vs 12A FET, in otherwise-identical lights.

There are other aspects to consider, equally interesting. What if your usage is short duration on/off burst lasting for say, less than minute, and not constant on as in a runtime graph? Would the FET version be better because of more brightness despite of maybe worse runtime graph? What about battery, will high current capacity Samsung 40T now make a difference? Will the FET version be the brightest quad 219b ever, making it more useful as a walk light?

First person to do this comparison gets my vote for reviewer of the year Smile .

Yes, that would be a very interesting comparison.

And you are correct. Depending on one’s use case, the FET driver may be a better choice. If I need more lumens, I might also select a different LED… but would have give up the amazing 219b tint.

cannga
Online
Last seen: 14 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 01/04/2022 - 15:37
Posts: 393
Location: Palos Verdes, CA
Caleb wrote:
Simon Mao wrote:
buck91 wrote:
When do we expect the 8A buck driver to be in stock?

About one month ,and new version has spring.

Besides the spring, what other differences are there between the new version and the old version of the 8A driver?

@Caleb, saw you posted this question on Convoy thread. I don’t follow forum closely so please let us know if you get an answer.

In posts above I almost talked myself into buying the FET 219b 4500k for the brightness Facepalm Big Smile , but must resist. It’s very hard for me not to click yes on something that’s 30 bucks, but really, way too many lights I don’t need.

The Convoy S21D with 219b 3500k is equally appealing. This is first offering of this beautiful R9080 LED with 21700 battery AND larger body with decent thermal mass (more prolonged brightness). Must also resist.

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 2 min ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 6228
Location: Central North America

cannga wrote:
(more prolonged brightness)
im not sure more thermal mass produces more prolonged output

but it might raise the thermally sustainable output, after stepdown..

look at the discharge curve.. and where the output levels off…:

pic from this zeroair review

cannga
Online
Last seen: 14 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 01/04/2022 - 15:37
Posts: 393
Location: Palos Verdes, CA

What I meant Jon is that because these lights all have automatic temp regulation, I think a smaller light with less thermal mass would reach upper temp limit faster and hence invokes step-down faster. The bigger light should have more prolonged brightness, especially at Turbo starting level.

Above is true in my admittedly limited experience of 219b 4500k in Convoy S21D vs Emisar D4V2. Granted there might be other factors (drivers, etc.) that affect brightness, but with both thermal limits set to 55, the Emisar dims not just to a lower level, but also does it sooner. (I still love my Emisar though because I like its tiny size and it’s a very pretty light.)

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 2 min ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 6228
Location: Central North America

cannga wrote:
with both thermal limits set to 55, the Emisar always dims not just to a lower level, but also does it sooner.
that makes sense

same difference happens when I put a 10A battery in a FWAA, compared to a 3A battery

cannga
Online
Last seen: 14 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 01/04/2022 - 15:37
Posts: 393
Location: Palos Verdes, CA

The Opple Pro/Series 3 is here! A mere 10 days from China to my house in LA. It’s brand new and working as expected. Again, if you’d like to get one, just make sure it’s the item on the right side of the 2 pictures on the web site https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803116495145.html?spm=a2g0o.order_li..., where under “Color” it will say Pro (please don’t ask me why it’s under “Color”). The other way to tell is of course the Pro is more expensive, ~$40.

The 1lumen review https://1lumen.com/gear-review/opple-light-master-3-pro/ is a good read on how to get started. Make sure you turn on “location permission” for the Opple app on your cell phone.
And this is the site where you calculate Duv https://www.waveformlighting.com/tech/calculate-duv-from-cie-1931-xy-coo...

It’s a lot of fun and almost mandatory for Nichia collectors Innocent .

cannga
Online
Last seen: 14 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 01/04/2022 - 15:37
Posts: 393
Location: Palos Verdes, CA

The Nichia LEDs’ numbers measured with my Opple Pro are fairly consistent with known specs and findings of other posters.

For example the S21D with 219b sw45k – some preliminary trials’ graph & numbers below. The test may not add to what is already known, but still it is fun to confirm for yourself. OCD brains tend to have doubts and if that’s the case this Opple is a godsend .

FWIW this is Simon’s numbers (I believe) measured with the $600 Hopoocolor meter:
CRI for 219b sw45k Ra 96, R9 97, R12 79, DUV -0.0095

219b 4500k My numbers: CCT 4486 Ra 95.8, x 0.3582 y 0.3446 Duv -0.0087

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 2 min ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 6228
Location: Central North America

cannga wrote:

FWIW this is Simon’s numbers (I believe) measured with the $600 Hopoocolor meter:
CRI for 219b sw45k Ra 96, R9 97, R12 79, DUV -0.0095

219b 4500k

wow, really close DUV results
.
cannga
Online
Last seen: 14 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 01/04/2022 - 15:37
Posts: 393
Location: Palos Verdes, CA

jon_slider wrote:
cannga wrote:

FWIW this is Simon’s numbers (I believe) measured with the $600 Hopoocolor meter:
CRI for 219b sw45k Ra 96, R9 97, R12 79, DUV -0.0095

219b 4500k
https://i.imgur.com/eQCoegB.jpg

wow, really close DUV results
https://i.imgur.com/WrHdCrS.jpg .

Yes, I love it that the results are SO close to Simon’s numbers. Ra is 95.8 vs Simon’s 96.
Not bad from such an “economical” device. Smile

CCT of my 219b is spot on ~4500k, as opposed to my 519a, which has come out to be around 4100k.

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 2 min ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 6228
Location: Central North America

> my 519a, which has come out to be around 4100k.

agree, the 4500K 519a runs low, I just tested one of mine at 4200K, duv -0.0005

the nominal CCT that an LED is binned at is not exact, LEDs vary, in this case by 7%.

imo metered values vary due how bright the light is when tested, in addition to differences in the LEDs from one to the other, plus differences between the instruments used to do the test.

Even LEDs from the same roll, side by side neighbors, can have these variations.

cannga
Online
Last seen: 14 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 01/04/2022 - 15:37
Posts: 393
Location: Palos Verdes, CA

jon_slider wrote:
> my 519a, which has come out to be around 4100k.

agree, the 4500K 519a runs low, I just tested one of mine at 4200K, duv -0.0005

the nominal CCT that an LED is binned at is not exact, LEDs vary, in this case by 7%.

imo metered values vary due how bright the light is when tested, in addition to differences in the LEDs from one to the other, plus differences between the instruments used to do the test.

Even LEDs from the same roll, side by side neighbors, can have these variations.

Thanks Jon. You’re always a good source of info. Thumbs Up

zoulas
zoulas's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 22 min ago
Joined: 06/01/2020 - 08:35
Posts: 2407

Anyone know when the CC version will be available? AX only lists the FET version.

cannga
Online
Last seen: 14 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 01/04/2022 - 15:37
Posts: 393
Location: Palos Verdes, CA
zoulas wrote:
Anyone know when the CC version will be available? AX only lists the FET version.

This post from 6/24:

snfx wrote:
cannga wrote:
FWIW from Aliexpress web site:
***************************************************

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803593026491.html?spm=a2g0o.productl...
12A FET driver, max output 12A, It is greatly affected by the battery voltage and internal resistance, and the current drops rapidly.

8A CC driver, constant current buck driver, As long as the battery voltage is greater than the LED VF value, the driver still maintains a high current output. In addition, the new 8A driver uses springs instead of copper posts.

Bead TIR lens makes the light much softer, The larger the angle of the lens, the more scattered the light.

Simon said 20 days for the 8A Buck drivers to be restocked and they will come with springs instead of the copper rod for the battery

zoulas
zoulas's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 22 min ago
Joined: 06/01/2020 - 08:35
Posts: 2407

Thanks I will keep an eye open for it.

Anyone have any beam shots to compare the various TIR angles?

cannga
Online
Last seen: 14 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 01/04/2022 - 15:37
Posts: 393
Location: Palos Verdes, CA

Next up is my measurement of Convoy S21D with Nichia 519a 4500k shows 2 interesting findings:
1. CCT is ~4100k, not 4500k.
2. Duv is negative, versus the positive number that Simon got using his Hopoocolor meter.
I was surprised by the negative number, considering the beam color looks more yellow/slight greenish than magenta if compared back to back with 219b, so I posed the question on the lightmaster thread https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1868893#comment-1868893 and found other people seem to be getting negative numbers also. No big deal since variations are expected.

Simon’s specs for 519a 4500k: Ra 93.6, R9 82, R12 80, Duv 0.00091
(Not bad at all. Check out R9 ——> 82. In other words this is also a R9080 led.)

My 519a 4500k measurements with Opple Lightmaster Pro (trial runs), in Convoy S21D with Sofirn Clear Optic (the OEM frosted optic’s numbers didn’t change much):
100% Brightness: Ra 97.3, Duv -0.0037
20% Brightness: Ra 97.6, Duv -0.0018, range: -0.0020 to -0.0030

twisted raven
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 3 min ago
Joined: 03/13/2016 - 11:10
Posts: 657
Location: texas

I’m sure if you get accustomed to something as overly rosy as the SW45K, even a slightly rosy emitter will look green.

cannga
Online
Last seen: 14 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 01/04/2022 - 15:37
Posts: 393
Location: Palos Verdes, CA
twisted raven wrote:
I’m sure if you get accustomed to something as overly rosy as the SW45K, even a slightly rosy emitter will look green.

Agreed. I should emphasize the only time I see any greenish tint in 519a 4500k is during back to back comparison with 219b 4500k or 3500k. By itself, it’s a beautiful golden light.

zoulas
zoulas's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 22 min ago
Joined: 06/01/2020 - 08:35
Posts: 2407

Simon, what is the ETA on the 8A Buck drivers.

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 2 min ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 6228
Location: Central North America

cannga wrote:
Simon’s specs for 519a 4500k: Duv 0.00091

My 519a 4500k measurements with Opple Lightmaster Pro (trial runs): Duv -0.0037
that is a Huuge difference!

before seeing that 0.0128 difference in duv, Ive assumed there is about 0.0030 discrepancy in my Opple, compared to a real spectrometer.

in this case I think Simon got an unusually high duv..

bottom like is we cannot really expect a match, using different tools and non identical LEDs

the best use of Opple imo is to compare lights I own, side by side
.

cannga
Online
Last seen: 14 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 01/04/2022 - 15:37
Posts: 393
Location: Palos Verdes, CA

Jon, very good points to keep in mind (comparison more valid when not compared across different test devices, brightness, LED batch, etc.). That way we could stay relaxed and have fun while learning something.

I’m sure you’ve noticed there are 3 zero’s in front of Simon’s value. So his number hugs the BBL very close, maybe not a “huge” difference from my 20% brightness value. ie Simon’s ~ .001 (round up from the seemingly large 0.0009) versus my -.002, and your -.000.

jon_slider
jon_slider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 2 min ago
Joined: 09/08/2015 - 12:20
Posts: 6228
Location: Central North America

> I’m sure you’ve noticed there are 3 zero’s in front of Simon’s value.

no, I missed that, thanks, so 0.0009, thats very reasonably similar to 519a 4500K Ive measured too

here is one 519a 4500K test at duv -0.0003
.

snfx
Offline
Last seen: 5 days 24 min ago
Joined: 05/23/2022 - 04:18
Posts: 23
Location: United States

S21D 8A Buck In Stock!!!

cannga
Online
Last seen: 14 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 01/04/2022 - 15:37
Posts: 393
Location: Palos Verdes, CA
snfx wrote:
S21D 8A Buck In Stock!!!

Finally. Good catch Thumbs Up Smile .
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803593026491.html?spm=a2g0o.productl...

(Click the “8A CC” of course.)

snfx
Offline
Last seen: 5 days 24 min ago
Joined: 05/23/2022 - 04:18
Posts: 23
Location: United States
cannga wrote:
snfx wrote:
S21D 8A Buck In Stock!!!

Finally. Good catch Thumbs Up Smile .
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803593026491.html?spm=a2g0o.productl...

I’m still debating to get my 1st Hank Light. The S21D is so good but I’m looking for a more portable quad LED setup lol

cannga
Online
Last seen: 14 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 01/04/2022 - 15:37
Posts: 393
Location: Palos Verdes, CA
snfx wrote:
I’m still debating to get my 1st Hank Light. The S21D is so good but I’m looking for a more portable quad LED setup lol

Yes there is something about a small light that fits completely in your palm with side switch. It feels right/very good. And D4V2 is very pretty.
I couldn’t decide between Hank’s and Simon’s lights so I got both.
Sick Big Smile

If you do get Emisar D4V2, I would add a couple comments: I do NOT like the option of raised ring around button (takes away from the smooth feel), and if you get brass or copper option, they are extremely pretty, but also very heavy.

nicodimus22
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 15 min ago
Joined: 05/02/2022 - 23:11
Posts: 79
Location: Maryland
cannga wrote:
snfx wrote:
S21D 8A Buck In Stock!!!

Finally. Good catch Thumbs Up Smile .
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803593026491.html?spm=a2g0o.productl...

(Click the “8A CC” of course.)

Out of curiosity, what does this mean in layman’s terms? I already have the 12A version, so I’m wondering what changes if you get the 8A. Differences in output or runtime?

Pages