Beware of the WLL Titan X75 "Laser Technology" Flashlight?

47 posts / 0 new
Last post

Pages

Laser Project
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
Joined: 04/12/2022 - 12:20
Posts: 45
Location: Doha, Qatar
Beware of the WLL Titan X75 "Laser Technology" Flashlight?

LEP LASER FLASHLIGHT TORCH SPOTLIGHT WLL-TITAN-X75 LASER TECHNOLOGY 7500MTR AU | eBay

 

The seller at the above link might be trying to associate this flashlight with being a LEP when it appears to be LED pumped phosphor instead of a laser diode. In the advertisement they state the flashlight uses a 12 watt LED to produce white light, but they also throw around the claim of being LEP as well as being a "laser" flashlight. When I emailed them asking if the light contained a laser diode I was rudely answered with an insult and what I believe were misleading statements.

If anyone has seen this flashlight themselves, please report what it is.

 

 

 

 

 

ChibiM
ChibiM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 12 hours ago
Joined: 05/09/2011 - 10:25
Posts: 6997
Location: Holland

Don't know... 

They also sell this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/224990578870 

looks interesting

Glenn7
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 25 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2012 - 08:02
Posts: 310
Location: Tasmania Australia

I asked them about how many lumens the WLL30 has as it states that it has a 10 Watt laser, and this was their reply.

Hi Glenn,
Thank you for your enquiry.

This Unit Produces 19000 Lux at 5mtr, which equates to approximately 2800lm at the same distance.

Kind Regards
Limelight LED AU

So I sent a another reply to ask if the other LEP’s out there have a 10 watt module that only puts out 4-450 lumens then how come theirs can do 2800L? – I understand that the WLL30 has a bigger front lens and therefore maybe has a more intense beam, but 2800L?
As I’m not a maths dude maybe 19000 LUX at 5 meters is 2800L – but I know the techie’s here will know.

So I got another reply to that question:
Hi Glenn,
Thank you for your reply and further enquiry.

When comparing these units different parameters were utilised. to explain the difference please see below:-

- WLLX75 Measured at 5mtr (16.40ft) – Utilising a 5deg Beam Angle =19000lux or 2840lm
- WLLX30 Measured at 25mtr (82ft) – Utilising an Average Beam Angle of 1.5deg = 6000lux or 2000lm
- Acebeam W30 Measured at 5mtr (16.40ft) – Utilising a 1.8deg Beam Angle = 25800lux or 500lm

In reality the real difference in comparison comes down to the distance measured at and the Beam Angle.

We hope the above information proves useful.

Kind Regards
Limelight AU

Thanks for any of you guys reply’s/thoughts/knowledge.

ChibiM
ChibiM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 12 hours ago
Joined: 05/09/2011 - 10:25
Posts: 6997
Location: Holland

There's something wrong with their numbers.

I personally don't know how they can calculate Lux to Lumens from a distance.

That's not how it is supposed to be done and that's not how it can be done. So I wonder what their calculation is.

 

Secondly, you can see that the WLLX75 has a lower Lux than the Acebeam W30, and should therefore throw less far! You can't change that. 

Maybe they made a mistake? At least their calculation doesn't add up. 

It doesn't matter what the beam angle is, because 19000 lux at 5meters is less than 25800 lux at 5 meters (W30). So with those numbers, it's impossible to reach 7500 meters like they advertise the light at. 

 

But they might have accidentally made a typo?

19,000lux at 5 meters = 475,000 cd, which equals to 1378 meters... not 7500 meters.

Even if they made a typo, and was supposed to be 190,000 lux at 5 meters, that makes it 4,750,000 cd = 4359 meters. Still not close to 7500 meters.

 

So something is wrong. 

They should follow the ANSI FL1 standards in my opinion.. 

 

But besides that.. I think it's interesting they make these lights, because a 90mm LEP is quite rare. I welcome them to keep improving them, because they look interesting. 

IR Laser
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: 03/03/2014 - 02:30
Posts: 13
Location: Doha, Qatar

Please ask them if the phophor is pumped using an LED or laser diode, or both.

Unheard
Unheard's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 33 min ago
Joined: 01/16/2019 - 11:38
Posts: 2550
Location: Germany

From their description: Blue LASER, axial optical setup (LASER – Phorphor – Optics), “independent measurement” of 19klux@5m.

That’s 19000*25 cd = 475000 cd = 1378.4 m.

Not sure what the 1 lx thing might be, they’re writing about. Could be the 1.3 km is the distance to produce 1 lx on the target. That would be quite good I guess, but they should be more clear about it.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

Glenn7
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 25 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2012 - 08:02
Posts: 310
Location: Tasmania Australia

Might have to take one for the team – worst case scenario is I hate myself – or… I go, I now have the cheapest furthest throwing LEP! (you gotta admit the icing on the cake is the Rear Military Tactical Tail Cap Switch :0)
Still can’t get my head around the numbers they quote, unless as I have read some places that 10 watt lasers are only really making 4-5 watts in LEP lights – so maybe the laser (osram) they are using produces the full 10 watts. Still the 5deg vs 1.8deg angle is messing with me.
Can’t see Osram 10 Watt diodes in blue mouser

- WLLX75 Measured at 5mtr (16.40ft) – Utilising a 5deg Beam Angle =19000lux or 2840lm

- Acebeam W30 Measured at 5mtr (16.40ft) – Utilising a 1.8deg Beam Angle = 25800lux or 500lm

Well I’ll just stay happy with things like this cute baby

IR Laser
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: 03/03/2014 - 02:30
Posts: 13
Location: Doha, Qatar

Seems to me they are using a 10W blue LED, they say as much on their ebay listing and probably throw in mention of LEP or laser to help sales when they shouldn’t. The beam has the appearance of being a LEP but I believe this is due to using a transmissive phosphor target which has a similar beam pattern. If only using a LED with a broader beamwidth, it probably has half the throw of a W30.

This is Laser Project, I lost my password and tried to recover using a different email address without realizing it, or remembering I had this account from 2014 first.

ChibiM
ChibiM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 12 hours ago
Joined: 05/09/2011 - 10:25
Posts: 6997
Location: Holland

I'm very curious as well.. thank you for taking one for the team Smile 

IR Laser
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: 03/03/2014 - 02:30
Posts: 13
Location: Doha, Qatar

The ebay listing warns the head cannot be opened without destroying the light, the LED hidden from external view?

If a member buys it and can somehow open it or see what is used inside, I will donate 50 dollars via PayPal for photo’s of the LED or laser, if it has one inside. If you can’t find me active here go to laserdiscourse.org to find me there as “laser project”. This offer only good for just one individual.

Glenn7
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 25 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2012 - 08:02
Posts: 310
Location: Tasmania Australia

Yes I ordered it, I’ll try to get a looksee down the barrel. I have many throwie lights +have had many Aspheric lights – I also have a Acebeam W30, so I know what a LEP beam looks like. I’ll do a beam comparison for Youzers!

IR Laser
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: 03/03/2014 - 02:30
Posts: 13
Location: Doha, Qatar

Great, if you want that 50 later after getting it and figuring it out, just PM me.

Glenn7
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 25 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2012 - 08:02
Posts: 310
Location: Tasmania Australia

If it feels worth it to you.
I just like helping my BLF bro’s/sis’s if I can.
Wish I could have deducted the charger and batteries for a discount as I have way batteries and charger, probably will use 21700’s anyway if I can.

Glenn7
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 25 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2012 - 08:02
Posts: 310
Location: Tasmania Australia

OK, just got it and some day time observations. it doesn’t seem to throw farther than the W30 outside against a wall at 30 meters (day time) defiantly not 2800L – but will get back at night time with comparisons.
Build quality is maybe one step up from trustfire/ultrafire/buttfire/scumfire etc.
It is a LEP, lenses are plastic.
Cooling will not be a problem as there is tones of mass/fins.
At this stage would I buy it again – NO!
Wondering if driver could be over driven then maybe it would be better.
Some quickndirtypix

LunaLoves
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 27 min ago
Joined: 05/13/2021 - 16:21
Posts: 56
Location: Hamburg, Germany

That definitely is a LEP module inside though

Are you able to post beamshots, wallshots and maybe measure the lux at 10m or so?

ChibiM
ChibiM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 12 hours ago
Joined: 05/09/2011 - 10:25
Posts: 6997
Location: Holland

Thanks for sharing. 

Do you have any size comparison pictures? Like this one next to a W30?

IR Laser
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: 03/03/2014 - 02:30
Posts: 13
Location: Doha, Qatar

Great photo’s, but due to the ebay listing specifying there was a 10 W LED inside, I’m still wondering if this is a true LEP flashlight or not. Wondering if there is a way to see without destroying it, the listing indicated it could not be opened without doing so, sadly.

ChibiM
ChibiM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 12 hours ago
Joined: 05/09/2011 - 10:25
Posts: 6997
Location: Holland

IR Laser wrote:
Great photo's, but due to the ebay listing specifying there was a 10 W LED inside, I'm still wondering if this is a true LEP flashlight or not. Wondering if there is a way to see without destroying it, the listing indicated it could not be opened without doing so, sadly.

Did you see the pictures in post #14? 

To me that looks like 100% an LEP 

IR Laser
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: 03/03/2014 - 02:30
Posts: 13
Location: Doha, Qatar

I’m still questioning if this is a real LEP or not, whether a LED is pumping that phosphor instead of a laser diode. The phosphor and mirror setup could be the same as a LEP and use a tightly focused LED instead. Would that produce as tight a beam output? I don’t know.

Answer me this, why would the listing on ebay say this flashlight uses a 12 watt LED if this is a LEP flashlight? Also, why is the seller so slippery in his response when asked if this uses a laser diode inside? I smell a fisherman’s market near by but would love to be wrong.

Edit: I just looked at his listing, he changed the listing to specify the flashlight uses a 10 watt blue laser diode, before his edit, he had 12 watt LED. Might it be this seller just didn’t know the difference?

Rayoui
Rayoui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 8 hours ago
Joined: 08/06/2019 - 00:38
Posts: 691
Location: Portland, OR

I don’t see anywhere in the listing where it refers to the use of an LED. It does make several references to the laser.

Judging from the information in the listing and the photos posted above, I don’t see any reason to believe this is not a true LEP light. The range specs in the listing do seem pretty unrealistic.

IR Laser
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: 03/03/2014 - 02:30
Posts: 13
Location: Doha, Qatar

Heh, well, I just edited a line into my previous post the seller changed the listing from 12 watt LED to now specifying 10 watt laser. I have a screen save of the original listing showing what it was before, if you want to see it.

https://imageevent.com/qdf_files/laserlinks?p=375&n=1&m=-1&c=2&l=0&w=4&s...

Rayoui
Rayoui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 8 hours ago
Joined: 08/06/2019 - 00:38
Posts: 691
Location: Portland, OR

It was probably just a typo, since the rest of the listing makes multiple references to the use of a 10W blue laser diode.

Was there some other reason besides that one instance of “LED” that leads you to believe this product is in some way a deception?

IR Laser
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: 03/03/2014 - 02:30
Posts: 13
Location: Doha, Qatar

How could writing the flashlight “uses a 12 watt white LED module” be a typo?

Also, when I contacted the seller specifically asking if it used a laser diode and not a LED as his listing also mentioned the word laser in it, he did not directly answer me, just insulted me as not being the caliber of customer who should buy his product for asking that, and referred to the unit using “LEP technology”, never answering my question yes or no, instead choosing to obfuscate with that answer?

Also, as best I know, there are no 12 watt blue lasers available for use in this product (especially at the price offered, two diodes could be combined, but not at this price) unless he is telling us the total power consumed by a 8 watt output laser diode set to a lower output which would be a misrepresentation the Chinese like to use on their ebay listings now, calling their 8 watt output lasers 20 watt, which is the power input, not output.

This is a very fishy listing, all together.

Rayoui
Rayoui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 8 hours ago
Joined: 08/06/2019 - 00:38
Posts: 691
Location: Portland, OR

It’s about as fishy as any listing for one of those 10 million lumen flashlights that are everywhere on Ebay.

It looks to me like this is an authentic LEP light, although probably not the highest performing one you could get, and certainly not worth their asking price IMO.

IR Laser
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: 03/03/2014 - 02:30
Posts: 13
Location: Doha, Qatar

Message for Glenn7, can you take a photo of the flashlight with the lens intact showing the whole head so I can see what it looks like that way, down into it from 12 inches or so distance away, instead of a close up of the phosphor and mirror block?

————————————————

Rayoui, I’d expect better from a seller who isn’t in China. Also, I just noticed they specified the power consumption to be 10 watts, there are no 10 watt laser diodes which are 100% efficient, the efficiency is less than half. Sure wish we could break into the flashlight deeper and confirm what is going on with it.

————————————————-

From the listing: Voltage 8.4 volts, rated current 2.38 amps, power consumption 10 watts? You do the math, that doesn’t add up. Why use the word “rated” with current? Do they mean the current draw from the batteries? My math shows the power draw would then be very close to 20 watts, not 10.

The listing is full of discrepancies, if not that, misleading information which appears purposeful to me. Also, the listing indicates the phosphor is being shot through which would not normally require a mirror, yet the flashlight photo’s shows the block of a mirror inside? Another discrepancy.

See: https://imageevent.com/qdf_files/technicalgoodies/experimentersfolder/ir...

………………..Yes, I tore into the LIMELIGHT AUSTRALIA ebay listing hard, but from what I see, they wholly deserve to be scrutinized and fail on multiple levels; insulting a potential customer for no reason, and then being unwilling to directly answering questions regarding their product claims, and for all of the discrepancies found in their specifications which are likely purposeful marketing BS. All of this let alone changing the ebay listing from this flashlight uses a “12 watt white LED” to now show it uses a 10 watt blue laser when I called them out on labeling this product a LEP when it cannot be if using a LED to pump the phosphor.

So, what is going on here? Is this the most fake specs listing on ebay? I thought China had the corner on that market.

Glenn7
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 25 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2012 - 08:02
Posts: 310
Location: Tasmania Australia

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you guys – and sorry for the long windedness of this post, just thought you’d like to know so as to save or spend your bux.
Yes I wrote a not so so happy feedback for the non-truth claims – they wanted me to change the feed back to positive as they say they are a small business and don’t need bad feed back – I said I could send it back for them to check if it’s faulty and that I would be happy to review the WLLX30 as well if they want.

This was my feedback for Ebay:
A lie with regards to throw, it’s not 7500 meter throw (ANSI) as stated. Build quality is average – throws not much better than an Acebeam W30 that has 2400 meter throw at 1/3 of the size, only the head diameter makes it throw slightly better. good communication and fast postage – package is ok and as it works out about the same price as most LEP torches (+ batteries and charger) but you will get a longer runtime with this light, just disappointed with it not being 7500M throw – be honest guys!

This was his reply:
Hi Glenn,
Thank you for your purchase and subsequent Feedback.

Please note that it is genuinely not our intention to mislead any one, and firmly believe that the details, as provided in the listing, are true and correct, as per the manufacturers (WLL) Specifications. In that the unit has an output of 0.25 Lux at 7500mts, which is the maximum lux that can be measured at this distance, in ideal conditions. Otherwise 1 Lux at 500mtr and an average usable distance , as you have noted of 2500mtr, with the visible eye.

We again apologise for any confusion, or inconvenience, and genuinely thought that you would receive this LEP Flashlight, and be extremely pleased with the performance. As a small business, we can not afford any Negative Feedback, and try extremely hard to satisfy all of our customers. As such we would offer that should you be willing to re structure this feedback, to one of a positive nature, we can offer you an 5% discount on your purchase, or alternatively you are more than welcome to return the unit, for a full refund, once received in original condition.

Glenn we sincerely apologise for any misunderstanding or inconvenience, and hope you accept our apology. Please advise as to whether you accept our apology and are willing to revise your feedback. If so we will send you a feedback revision request.

Best Wishes
Ross
Limelight AU

This was was my reply:

Hello Ross,

Torches are a hobby of mine and I have been buying and collecting torches for 30+ years, I have bought 100’s of cheap and expensive ones also I have bought at least 100 or more torches for collages on request.
I belong to 2 forums, Budgetlightforums and Candlepowerforums and are well aware of how light is measured in torches/flashlights, I have a light meter and understand how the measurements work.
The measurements you are quoting are ANSI (American National Standards Institute) which is the flashlight standard for measuring output/throw adopted by most reputable manufacturers.
Unless I have a faulty unit, a 10 watt LEP module can only produce 10watts of output which is the same as the Acebeam W30’s module which is 10watt and produces 450 ANSI lumens(not 2800L as you have quoted for the X75). But as the X75 has a bigger Aspheric lens and head it will throw a little further – Maybe I should have known that but based on the figures – shining the W30 and the X75 side by side, the X75 throws just a little further.
The WLLX30 light you sell says it can throw 6000 meters (which is less than the quoted X75) also the WLLX30 has a bigger head and 30Watt LEP module, so something is out in the measurements.
The X75 was pointed out to me on one of the forums so I took one for the team to see how good they are. Thousands of people read those forums, more read them than join them for information about what lights they want to buy, LEP thrower lights are really popular right now.
As I hate lies (sorry if I accused you of lying, Ross) I tell the truth to my best ability and my word is my word.
I could send it back and you could test it if you want?
I’d love to test the X30 and if it was a winner I would do a review on the 2 forums for you and that would boost your sales 10 fold.
Again sorry if I called you a liar, but if you quote figures and they turn out to be wrong, it won’t help your business. I have found that over the years most Chinese manufacturers lie to sell more.

Glenn.

His reply again:
Hi Glenn,
Thank you for your reply and for your honest insight.

We again apologise for any inconvenience, and would like to point out that while this unit is made in China, we are not of Chinese Nationality, nor do we believe ourselves to be liars. We have been running our Store for over Ten years, to date, and have taken pride in our Nearly Perfect Rating, which has been maintained with hard work. We have to apologise, but we find it quite disheartening that you could leave such feedback, which has in one foul swoop destroyed our rating, and ruined our Ebay Plus Seller Status.

Again we have only passed on the figures, as per the Manufacturers Specifications. We also still understand that the 0.25 Lux at 7500mtr is achievable, and feasible with this Unit. However upon your recommendations will change several aspects of the listing to reflect and reinforce the above. As you mentioned earlier that you would take some Images, if this is still on offer we would dearly love to see them.

In relation to the 30W Unit, this has a 120mm Head and Lens, and a Beam Angle up to 10 degrees, as such, and compared to the X75, this unit throws a wider spread pattern, however dissipates over the distance, to provide an average usable distance of up to 3000mtr. We also apologise that unfortunately, and given the cost of these units, that while we would trust you with the unit, it is not financially, nor logistically viable to loan any of the Units out.

Again we apologise for any misunderstanding, and will never the less send you a feed back revision request, in the hope that you empathise with our position, and have it in your heart to modify your feedback, to one of a Positive nature with your honest observations included. Please don’t call ourselves liars.

Kind Regards
Ross
Limelight AU

I paid enough for this light so I’m not risking disassembly to end up with a non working light.
I tried to get Lux readings at 10 and 15 meters but the problem is the head is so large that the beam won’t culminate at that short distance, so yes I will have to try at a longer distance – cold and raining/snow here so when I get a chance I will.
When I shine the beam up into the sky it does look like it throws further – also it’s smaller tighter whiter beam compared to the W30 that is yellow-ish and the W30 is suppose to be the lower cri version (6500k) think the X75 is 7500k.
I used my best batteries, GOLISI 26650 – their batteries and some Sony VTC 18650 unprotected batteries – all outputs look the same to me as I assume it’s regulated.

The beam shots are at 10 meters down the hall, and close up at .5 meter – X75 is on the left.

Glenn7
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 25 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2012 - 08:02
Posts: 310
Location: Tasmania Australia

Don’t think I’ll pay the extra $2000 for the WLLX30 just to maybe disappointed.
My word is my word and I would buy or send it back if he sent me the WLLX30 to test. Hmm unless everyone here gave me $1 to help…. ha ha that would make $10 help – might even crack out the DSLR for pics :0)

From here I was thinking of saying to him, if he bought a new car that states that it has has say 500 HP – then you get it home and find out it has 300HP, just because a car costs more you can’t use that as an excuse for deception and say hey! the manufacturer said it was 500 HP so not my fault.

ChibiM
ChibiM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 12 hours ago
Joined: 05/09/2011 - 10:25
Posts: 6997
Location: Holland

Thanks for taking 1 for the team! 

That's a bit disappointing. I hoped they would trust you more than manufacturer's specs. You were honest! 

Glenn7
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 25 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2012 - 08:02
Posts: 310
Location: Tasmania Australia

OK I sent this to him, I’ll see what happens.

If you want me to stop posting about this I will, just thought you might be interested – I really wished/hoped this would be a killer light :0(

Hello Ross,
Obviously you guys are not liars at all, but now that you know the truth. By you selling them you are allowing/trusting the manufacturers to dictate false numbers for your business.
If you bought a new car that states that it has say 500 HP – then you get it home and find out it has 250HP. Yes a car costs more, but the car yard sales dude can’t use that as an excuse for deception and say hey! the manufacturer said it was 500 HP so not my fault. Maybe not in china but that’s not consumer law in OZ.
I am willing to work something out and take my bad feed back away – you have to admit that buying something that performs at half the stated output is not fair for me at $450 surely?
Example: type in 1000000 lumen torch or flashlight into ebay or aliexpress and see the lies – here are some examples for you if you don’t believe me – 1000000 lumen light would melt bricks. most of those Chinese lights have about 500 – 5000 lumens at most only.

Nice bright one

Yay nice n bright

Should have just bought this in the first place

Glenn7
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 25 min ago
Joined: 01/17/2012 - 08:02
Posts: 310
Location: Tasmania Australia

Well that went well – not! They kind of missed the point.

Hi Glenn,
Thank you for your reply and for the information contained.

We notice that the examples of the Flashlights you have provided, are of a completely different calibre, and are of a low quality mass produced LED nature. This is like comparing Chalk and Cheese.

Please note that as soon as our listing once again becomes open for editing, that is after current offers expire, we will be reflecting the figures as previously stated in a bolder manner.

In relation to your feedback, and as previously stated, we are prepared to offer a 5% refund in order that you reflect a positive feedback to include no verbal accusations nor racial slur.

Please note that we value your purchase and your appraisal, however these units are extremely expensive, and afford ourselves very little margin after ebay takes their percentage, to include all additional fees.

We again apologise for any misunderstanding or inconvenience and will process a 5% refund once feedback is rectified.

Kind Regards
Limelight AU

ChibiM
ChibiM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 12 hours ago
Joined: 05/09/2011 - 10:25
Posts: 6997
Location: Holland

Sad, it looks like it's not going anywhere.. 

You might have to go down the paypal refund route perhaps? 

I don't really think they know much about flashlights, unfortunately. 

Pages