[UNOFFICIAL CONCEPT] Emisar D7: single or dual channels, individually swappable S2+ optics, 26800 battery tube

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tactical_grizzly
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[UNOFFICIAL CONCEPT] Emisar D7: single or dual channels, individually swappable S2+ optics, 26800 battery tube

Hi everyone, this is just a concept I drew up this week in my free time, not an official product.

The idea would be to have a single-cell dual-channel light similar to K9.3, DM1.12, and D4SV2 that has individually changeable optics to provide a lot more control over the beam pattern. You could choose two have all floody optics, all throwy optics, or a mix of both in various degrees. I’ve designed it to use a lot of existing parts, so the only new parts would be the MCPCB, aux board, and the metal parts of the head. Here are a few of the key features:

  • D4SV2 body tubes: 26800 (shown), 26650, or 26350
  • K1 RGB backlit switch
  • RGB Aux LED’s
  • Single channel version with Linear+FET driver (same as D4SV2 driver)
  • Dual channel with DM1.12 driver (4 LED FET channel, 3 LED 12A channel)
  • Seven individual and interchangeable S2+ optics to have a lot of control over beam profile
  • 65mm bezel diameter, 132.5mm length
  • All the typical 3535 3V LED’s (SST20, XPL, 519A, 219B, ETC)
  • Minimal number of new parts (making bringing it to production faster & easier)

What do you think? My ideal configuration would be four Osram W2’s with narrow throwy optics on the FET channel, plus three dedomed 519A 4500K’s with wide beaded optics on the 12A channel for flood.

Edited by: tactical_grizzly on 05/29/2022 - 22:46
Loafglenn
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What’s the diameter of the k9.3 head? Would it be cheaper to just change the led board on that for these 7 emitters? Either way nice idea.

Rayoui
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If each optic is an individual S2 optic, that’s going to be a monster of a light. Judging from the much smaller K9.3, it’s going to be very front heavy. Gonna have to add a shoulder strap

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Loafglenn wrote:
What’s the diameter of the k9.3 head? Would it be cheaper to just change the led board on that for these 7 emitters? Either way nice idea.

That would be cheaper but K9.3 uses much smaller optics. These S2+ optics are significantly larger so they would not fit. I chose to design around these larger S2+ optics because they are capable of much more throw than K9.3’s optics AND they’re available in a huge variety of beam widths and finishes (glossy, frosted, beaded, elliptical).

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Rayoui wrote:
If each optic is an individual S2 optic, that’s going to be a monster of a light. Judging from the much smaller K9.3, it’s going to be very front heavy. Gonna have to add a shoulder strap

The dimensions of this design are listed in the top post. It’s not very large, smaller than Noctigon K1.

ArtieT59
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Whats the diameter of an S2 (S2+) optic? Ive never owned one. I don't know if it would save space, but Yajiamei on Alixexpress sells many 17mm optics with different beam profiles, and they're excellent quality. Doing quick math, "in a perfect world" if 17mm optics were used it seems the head could be about 58mm wide, but that would still be 6mm larger than the K9.3..

 

It is a nice design. I would be curious to see a beam profile from head design like this as there is not anything else on the market to compare it to (thats a good thing!). I always wonder how companies (especially smaller ones like Emisar) engineer and design for beam convergence when designing a new FL head, especially using a unique and original optic layout (like the dm1.12, for example).

 

I have to wonder what the beam shape would look like from the (4) clear optics in your rendering, regarding how they are place (a "Y" shape). Would it have a round hotspot? I don't know, just questions that come to mind. Is building a prototype the only way to discover this? Im sure there are programs that account for optic spacing, optic beam angle/shift, convergence, etc. 

 

EDIT: Oh, and dont we think this would likely be a Noctigon branded product? I mean, based off the other large head, multi-optic lights Hank has already made. Just for consistency and all. It used to be Noctigon = CC drivers and Emisar = FET Hotrods, but those "lines" started disappearing once he started putting the KR4 drivers in the D4v2.

[FLF] Five Light Friday https://budgetlightforum.com/node/78749

Check out some of my new lights (picture heavy) and quick first impressions of them here: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/77180

My Sft40 beamshots / comparison thread: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/78100

The BLF GT with SFT40 (2300lm, 2700m+ @ 30 seconds!)
https://budgetlightforum.com/node/79561

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ArtieT59 wrote:

Whats the diameter of an S2 (S2+) optic? Ive never owned one. I don’t know if it would save space, but Yajiamei on Alixexpress sells many 17mm optics with different beam profiles, and they’re excellent quality. Doing quick math, “in a perfect world” if 17mm optics were used it seems the head could be about 58mm wide, but that would still be 6mm larger than the K9.3..

 

It is a nice design. I would be curious to see a beam profile from head design like this as there is not anything else on the market to compare it to (thats a good thing!). I always wonder how companies (especially smaller ones like Emisar) engineer and design for beam convergence when designing a new FL head, especially using a unique and original optic layout (like the dm1.12, for example).

 

I have to wonder what the beam shape would look like from the (4) clear optics in your rendering, regarding how they are place (a “Y” shape). Would it have a round hotspot? I don’t know, just questions that come to mind. Is building a prototype the only way to discover this? Im sure there are programs that account for optic spacing, optic beam angle/shift, convergence, etc. 

 

EDIT: Oh, and dont we think this would likely be a Noctigon branded product? I mean, based off the other large head, multi-optic lights Hank has already made. Just for consistency and all. It used to be Noctigon = CC drivers and Emisar = FET Hotrods, but those “lines” started disappearing once he started putting the KR4 drivers in the D4v2.

S2+ optics are 20mm. Those 17mm optics would work fine too and allow for a smaller head, but I like the larger head for better thermals and the larger optics for a little more throw out of the narrow ones.

So long as all the optics are pointed in the same direction their beams will converge into one round hotspot. The flat glass lens over the front would take care of making sure all the optics are aligned.

It could be Noctigon branded but I picked Emisar because I like compatibility with D4SV2’s battery tube. I don’t think there’s any rhyme or reason to his Noctigon/Emisar name choices.

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tactical_grizzly wrote:
ArtieT59 wrote:

Whats the diameter of an S2 (S2+) optic? Ive never owned one. I don't know if it would save space, but Yajiamei on Alixexpress sells many 17mm optics with different beam profiles, and they're excellent quality. Doing quick math, "in a perfect world" if 17mm optics were used it seems the head could be about 58mm wide, but that would still be 6mm larger than the K9.3..

 

It is a nice design. I would be curious to see a beam profile from head design like this as there is not anything else on the market to compare it to (thats a good thing!). I always wonder how companies (especially smaller ones like Emisar) engineer and design for beam convergence when designing a new FL head, especially using a unique and original optic layout (like the dm1.12, for example).

 

I have to wonder what the beam shape would look like from the (4) clear optics in your rendering, regarding how they are place (a "Y" shape). Would it have a round hotspot? I don't know, just questions that come to mind. Is building a prototype the only way to discover this? Im sure there are programs that account for optic spacing, optic beam angle/shift, convergence, etc. 

 

EDIT: Oh, and dont we think this would likely be a Noctigon branded product? I mean, based off the other large head, multi-optic lights Hank has already made. Just for consistency and all. It used to be Noctigon = CC drivers and Emisar = FET Hotrods, but those "lines" started disappearing once he started putting the KR4 drivers in the D4v2.

S2+ optics are 20mm. Those 17mm optics would work fine too and allow for a smaller head, but I like the larger head for better thermals and the larger optics for a *little* more throw out of the narrow ones. So long as all the optics are pointed in the same direction their beams will converge into one round hotspot. The flat glass lens over the front would take care of making sure all the optics are aligned. It could be Noctigon branded but I picked Emisar because I like compatibility with D4SV2's battery tube. I don't think there's any rhyme or reason to his Noctigon/Emisar name choices.

 

Yea better thermals are always... better. lol. Ans if the 17mm optic cannot get the head size small enough to use the k9.3 head then there is not really a reason to go smaller - i like the idea of larger optics for better throw.

 

Makes sense why you picked Emisar, given the D4sv2 tube. But, there used to be a rhyme and reason why there were 2 brands (Noctigon started as parts i believe - mcpcb's, springs, drivers, etc). Then the Meteor, K1, KR4, KR1 came out as Noctigon and were the only lights he offered with Constant Current / "regulated" drivers. Emisar D1, D4, D4s, etc.. were FET 3+1 drivers. Even 2 years ago there was a clear distinction between the two brands. Now it's a little less cut and dry, if you will. 

[FLF] Five Light Friday https://budgetlightforum.com/node/78749

Check out some of my new lights (picture heavy) and quick first impressions of them here: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/77180

My Sft40 beamshots / comparison thread: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/78100

The BLF GT with SFT40 (2300lm, 2700m+ @ 30 seconds!)
https://budgetlightforum.com/node/79561

Chatika vas Paus
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Would reflectors from S2+ also fit or just the tir lenses?

kiriba-ru S2+ and S21a spacers are available in EU. PM me. A few details here

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Chatika vas Paus wrote:
Would reflectors from S2+ also fit or just the tir lenses?

The reflectors will not fit because they would touch components on the aux PCB. I suppose the design could be modified to fit them, but I’d rather stick with TIR’s because they play nicer with aux LED’s.

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Really impressive drawings grizzly, Amazing what you can do in your free time.

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What problems does this design solve compared to the dm1.12, k9.3, or dual channel d4sv2?

If someone wants an ultrawarm/pink night light, they could spec the k9.3 with e21a 2000k and deep red.
If someone wants flood/throw, they can go with dm1.12 or d4s.
If someone wants tint ramping, they could go with d4s or dt8.

The only improvement I see is for UV use, where raising the height of the main glass, and adding a fixing collar would enable individual zwb2 filters. Maybe that would be a middle ground between uv mule on k9.3 and those modded l21a s. Linear driver isn’t ideal for that though.

I feel like Hank’s midsize lineup already covers a lot of bases. Stuff bigger than the dm1.12 and smaller than d4 needs some love. Surprised there is no boost or dual channel d18, or 26800 tube for k1. Heck, if we want to use s2+ optics, maybe a 14500 light would make sense (like an fw1aa with a slightly bigger head).

The point of the above is that proposing part reuse is tempting, but it still takes design effort to bring to market. Maybe that design effort would be better spent on holes in the lineup.

However, if there is something that this design could uniquely accomplish, then I’d change my mind.

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PyriteParachute wrote:
What problems does this design solve compared to the dm1.12, k9.3, or dual channel d4sv2?

If someone wants an ultrawarm/pink night light, they could spec the k9.3 with e21a 2000k and deep red.
If someone wants flood/throw, they can go with dm1.12 or d4s.
If someone wants tint ramping, they could go with d4s or dt8.

The only improvement I see is for UV use, where raising the height of the main glass, and adding a fixing collar would enable individual zwb2 filters. Maybe that would be a middle ground between uv mule on k9.3 and those modded l21a s. Linear driver isn’t ideal for that though.

I feel like Hank’s midsize lineup already covers a lot of bases. Stuff bigger than the dm1.12 and smaller than d4 needs some love. Surprised there is no boost or dual channel d18, or 26800 tube for k1. Heck, if we want to use s2+ optics, maybe a 14500 light would make sense (like an fw1aa with a slightly bigger head).

The point of the above is that proposing part reuse is tempting, but it still takes design effort to bring to market. Maybe that design effort would be better spent on holes in the lineup.

However, if there is something that this design could uniquely accomplish, then I’d change my mind.

I believe what this design uniquely accomplishes is allowing the user to adjust the beam profile on a per-LED level by changing the optics.

Take D4SV2 for example. In a flood/throw dual channel configuration we are limited to using the throw optic and throwy LED’s to achieve throw. It’s easy enough to use floody LED’s and DC-Fix for flood. D4V2 also can only get so throwy with it’s relatively small optics. With these larger S2+ optics, more throw could be achieved on one channel while also achieving wider flood on the other channel, without having to be particular about LED selection to control beam angle.

K9.3 has the same problem, being limited to relatively floody optics due to their small size.

Take DM1.12 next. The user is limited to a very throwy center optic and very floody outer optics. It also uses nearly twice as many LED’s which adds a lot of cost. With this design, the user can choose to mix whatever LED’s & optics they please to achieve the beam profile they want.

This design also has more thermal mass than DM1.12, K9.3, or DM1.12 for higher sustained output.

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-

tactical_grizzly wrote:
Take D4SV2 for example. In a flood/throw dual channel configuration we are limited to using the throw optic and throwy LED’s to achieve throw.

I was just thinking last night while playing with my new D4SV2’s that It would be nice to have a single optic with 2xflood and 2xthrow.
Maybe with some care and attention I could sand two of the optics on my lense.-

Edit: Hm, I kinda changed my mind about how relevant I thought this comment was. But people dont like posts being deleted so… I tried to strike through it, but it doesnt seem to want to work for some reason.

Not the brightest flashlight in the collection.

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CRC2 wrote:
-
tactical_grizzly wrote:
Take D4SV2 for example. In a flood/throw dual channel configuration we are limited to using the throw optic and throwy LED’s to achieve throw.

I was just thinking last night while playing with my new D4SV2’s that It would be nice to have a single optic with 2xflood and 2xthrow.
Maybe with some care and attention I could sand two of the optics on my lense.-

Edit: Hm, I kinda changed my mind about how relevant I thought this comment was. But people dont like posts being deleted so… I tried to strike through it, but it doesnt seem to want to work for some reason.

I did exactly that on my D4SV2, I covered two of the little optic cone fronts with masking tape circled and then sanded the rest of it with 400 grit sandpaper and it works ok.

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That is one sweet render and it looks perfectly sized with a 26800 cell.

There could be a stamped out / machined front piece to align the optics like in the M43 meteor made out of polycarbonate.

4 throw & 3 flood would also be my ideal setup.

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tactical_grizzly wrote:
CRC2 wrote:
-
tactical_grizzly wrote:
Take D4SV2 for example. In a flood/throw dual channel configuration we are limited to using the throw optic and throwy LED’s to achieve throw.

I was just thinking last night while playing with my new D4SV2’s that It would be nice to have a single optic with 2xflood and 2xthrow.
Maybe with some care and attention I could sand two of the optics on my lense.-

Edit: Hm, I kinda changed my mind about how relevant I thought this comment was. But people dont like posts being deleted so… I tried to strike through it, but it doesnt seem to want to work for some reason.

I did exactly that on my D4SV2, I covered two of the little optic cone fronts with masking tape circled and then sanded the rest of it with 400 grit sandpaper and it works ok.

I think it would be really great if the company that made them could just make a combo optic.

Not the brightest flashlight in the collection.

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will34 wrote:
That is one sweet render and it looks perfectly sized with a 26800 cell.

There could be a stamped out / machined front piece to align the optics like in the M43 meteor made out of polycarbonate.

4 throw & 3 flood would also be my ideal setup.

Yeah! It’s in there, it’s frosted plastic just like K9.3. It doesn’t show up well in the renders but it’s there.

mattlward
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I would be more happy with a single emitter 18650 Hank with either an S2 size tir or small reflector. Something more pocketable than a KR1.

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KR4, SST-20 FA3 4000k (favorite!)
FW3A, Nichia 4000k sw40 r9080 (second favorite)
FW1A, LH351D 3500k (third favorite)
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FW3A, SST20 FD2 4000k
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7 – SBT90.2s….for a flash bulb. Big Smile

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What about a smaller 4.2 version. With 3 separate optics, a quad and 2 singles, but the same concept of being swappable.

undefined
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For that many emitters, you might as well lean in to the old Maglite concept and go with a 2 × 26800 design, with an optional 3×26800 tube for those that want to fully embrace tradition and enjoy walking around with ~21,000mah of cells and 7 eye melting emitters.

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undefined wrote:
For that many emitters, you might as well lean in to the old Maglite concept and go with a 2 × 26800 design, with an optional 3×26800 tube for those that want to fully embrace tradition and enjoy walking around with ~21,000mah of cells and 7 eye melting emitters.

That would be great. It would make the light much more expensive though, requiring a new beefy buck driver to be designed. One of my goals with this design was to use as many existing parts as possible (like DM1.12’s driver) to keep cost down.

undefined
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tactical_grizzly wrote:
undefined wrote:
For that many emitters, you might as well lean in to the old Maglite concept and go with a 2 × 26800 design, with an optional 3×26800 tube for those that want to fully embrace tradition and enjoy walking around with ~21,000mah of cells and 7 eye melting emitters.

That would be great. It would make the light much more expensive though, requiring a new beefy buck driver to be designed. One of my goals with this design was to use as many existing parts as possible (like DM1.12’s driver) to keep cost down.

Look at the advantages – Hank would finally have something (other than the K1) to compete in the medium/large format light space, and that something would have Hank’s trademark nature of being wildly customizable.

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mattlward wrote:
I would be more happy with a single emitter 18650 Hank with either an S2 size tir or small reflector. Something more pocketable than a KR1.

 

Im on board with this.

 

Basically If Hank could "bring back" the D1, but make it a 14500 light. That would be great. 

[FLF] Five Light Friday https://budgetlightforum.com/node/78749

Check out some of my new lights (picture heavy) and quick first impressions of them here: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/77180

My Sft40 beamshots / comparison thread: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/78100

The BLF GT with SFT40 (2300lm, 2700m+ @ 30 seconds!)
https://budgetlightforum.com/node/79561