Do you have some suggestions for the new vapcell charger?

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vapcell Dennis
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Do you have some suggestions for the new vapcell charger?

Due to the shortage of chips and the COVID-19, vapcell has suspended the research and development of high-end chargers for the past two years. At present, many aspects have become better

The vapcell charger is constantly upgraded, and the product quality is also continuously improved at present,

Vapcell will develop some new chargers, including 2-10 slots. Vapcell is committed to developing high-quality, cost-effective chargers to provide users with services. Your suggestions are welcome,the more detailed the better

There will be some new charger gifts for BLF members who leave messages

Thank you

raccoon city
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I know some BLF members want a high quality charger that will accommodate 26800 cells, so that would be nice.

TimMc
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Please add a STORAGE mode where the charger will charge or discharge a 3.7V Li-ion cell to 3.65 V.

Bigger heatsinks for a 4-slot charger may help allow a Li-ion cell to be discharged at 1A or higher in any of the slots.

vapcell Dennis
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raccoon city wrote:

I know some BLF members want a high quality charger that will accommodate 26800 cells, so that would be nice.

Thank you very much for your proposal. It is expected that 4 slots of vapcell LCD chargers capable of charging 4 *26800 batteries will be available

However, there is a bad news: it seems that many factories have suspended production of 26800 lithium-ion batteries, mainly selling 26800 IFR 5000mAh 3.2V

Is 26800 a big market? Many flashlights use this battery?

vapcell Dennis
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TimMc wrote:
Please add a STORAGE mode where the charger will charge or discharge a 3.7V Li-ion cell to 3.65 V.

Bigger heatsinks for a 4-slot charger may help allow a Li-ion cell to be discharged at 1A or higher in any of the slots.

Thank you. At present, many people have proposed that this storage function will appear on many chargers

If higher current discharge is required, the cooling fan is very necessary ,maybe two fans, or larger aluminum fins

Need 4*2a or 4*1.5a, 4*1a discharge?

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4× 26800 is awesome I would love to be able to adjust charging amps from .5 to 2 amps.
An option charge to 4.1V or 4.0 would be really nice but less important.

TimMc
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vapcell Dennis wrote:
Is 26800 a big market? Many flashlights use this battery?

The market for 26800 cells is relatively small in the enthusiast flashlight world. It is becoming more popular though.

Here are a few flashlights that take a 26800 cell:
Astrolux FT03
Convoy L6 with 26800 tube
Convoy L7 with 26800 tube
Convoy L8
Convoy M3C
Emisar DM1.12 with 26800 tube
Emisar D4SV2 with 26800 tube
Lumintop D3
Mateminco MT04 with 26800 tube
Nightwatch NI03
Nightwatch NSX4

Access to 26800 cells is another issue. Enthusiasts may need to bulk import 26800 cells and resell locally to obtain them at an affordable price.

raccoon city
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vapcell Dennis wrote:

Is 26800 a big market? Many flashlights use this battery?

I don't think it's a big market right now, but it could be in the future.

There is no great multi-cell 26800 charger right now, so I think a good number of people on BLF would buy one.

Vapcell would own the market, and maybe more 26800 batteries and flashlights would be introduced because there will be a great charger available from Vapcell.

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vapcell Dennis wrote:
Need 4*2a or 4*1.5a, 4*1a discharge?

Max 4*1.5A discharge is probably good for cells that we use for flashlights.

If the charger supported protected 26800 cells, that would make it easier to try to verify the capacity.

vapcell Dennis
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TimMc wrote:
vapcell Dennis wrote:
Need 4*2a or 4*1.5a, 4*1a discharge?

Max 4*1.5A discharge is probably good for cells that we use for flashlights.

If the charger supported protected 26800 cells, that would make it easier to try to verify the capacity.

If there are 26800 batteries with protective plates on the market, the length is expected to be 86mm,even more

If this charger is compatible with 16340, the spring is a great challenge and needs to be adjusted

If only 18650-26900 is charged, the design is very simple

Do you think it should be compatible with small batteries?

raccoon city
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vapcell Dennis wrote:

Do you think it should be compatible with small batteries?

You didn't ask me, but I have an opinion.  :D

It would be nice if it were a universal charger that could also charge AA and AAA batteries.

If it could charge 16340 cells as well, that's even better.

TimMc
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vapcell Dennis wrote:
Do you think it should be compatible with small batteries?

Yes, support for small cells like 10440 with a 250mA charging current or less is nice.

Protected 26800 probably isn’t necessary. I mentioned it to try to cover all unprotected 26800 lengths.

Dimples on the negative terminal and a protruding positive terminal (e.g. S4+) make it possible to charge cells with a recessed positive terminal. Film around a 10440 cell may not allow the negative end to touch a flat negative terminal.

Perhaps a 4-slot charger could be designed for up to 18650, and a larger 4-slot charger could be designed for 18650 to 26900.

Bort
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Have a 4V/80% charge option for those who want to charge batteries to 80% so their batteries will live longer before wearing out from age.

The Journal of Alternative Facts

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of Alternative Facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists."

 

Kardel
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My personal opinion is that supporting 18650-26800 is perfectly fine. There are plenty of other chargers suitable for smaller sizes but very few for larger sizes.

I think one mistake manufacturers make is that if the charger doesn’t support smaller sizes that it is suddenly going to have no market? Personally I like longer chargers as it makes getting 18650/21700 in and out of the charger easier.

I would like to see the following;

  • 2 or 4 bay charger
  • 3A charging per slot
  • USB-C PD for power input*
  • 18650** – 26800 support (I would say 65mm – ~90mm total length supported)
  • Storage mode (Charges or discharges to ~3.7V)
  • Capacity testing (1A discharge is fine for me)
  • Manually adjustable charging current (Up to 3A**)

*I am not overly familiar with the limitations of USB-PD in terms of power delivery but I don’t see why it wouldn’t deliver enough power. Personally I would take a slight charging hit (Maybe a max of 3A x 2 slots or 2A x 4) in order to have USB-PD input.

**I would say if you could include 14500 size batteries that would also help your market. They’re a lot longer than 16340 and I don’t think would require too much additional modification. I would have a lower minimum charging current if supporting 14500 batteries.

By eliminating shorter batteries you can cut costs of manufacturing/R&D as you have said.

Only other feature I can think of that would be nice is if it also had USB output (Either through the same port or another port), but this isn’t a deal breaker.

As TimMC said above the form factor is slowly becoming more common but availability is definitely not the best. I purchased a bulk quantity to sell into my small local market which has worked well and one of the most common question is “Which charger” to which I reply XTAR SC1 Plus as it’s essentially the only good one on the market.

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I currently own and use the S4+ daily it’s a great charger all round.
Some folks dont like the full charge bell sound, personally i dont mind it but it isn’t loud enough.
I have some AB cells with USB C on them and i hate them, dont quite fit the S4+, 26800 capability would allow charging any 21700 battery.
I’ll second TimMc request for a storage mode.
Slightly stronger springs as well even though the current ones are ok a bit more tension will help secure smaller cells a bit better eg. 10440/14500.

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The charger that I would use a lot is one that analyses all li-ion cells that are inserted correctly, and charges them correctly. So also smaller cells and old cells are analysed and charged correctly. At the same time it must have a good display with as much information as possible simultaneously displayed for all slots (so no toggle-button clicks needed).

It happens too often that I have to insert a cell several times before a charger picks it up correctly. Or the charger declares a half-full cell as full all of a sudden. And then I take it out and insert again and the charger starts charging correctly again. This happened with Soshine chargers, Liitokala chargers and Xtar chargers.

It is nice if the charger is compact and can be USB-C powered. A two-slot charger is what I use most. For me if it charges just li-ion cells that is fine.

Several charge currents are nice, and the option to stop at 80% charged is nice, but these are secondary wishes, the first is that it charges well.

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djozz wrote:
Or the charger declares a half-full cell as full all of a sudden. And then I take it out and insert again and the charger starts charging correctly again. This happened with Soshine chargers, Liitokala chargers and Xtar chargers.

I know exactly what you mean here, i can’t figure out why this happens Angry

Quote:
Several charge currents are nice, and the option to stop at 80% charged is nice,
Yes its nice but it would also be a competitive advantage that no one has yet. It would make me buy their charger.

The Journal of Alternative Facts

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of Alternative Facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists."

 

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Would it be possible to simply include a couple of spacers for shorter batteries that way the springs only need to support 18650 – 26800?

I’m 100% in favor of the feature list that @Kardel posted:

Quote:
2 or 4 bay charger 3A charging per slot USB-C PD for power input* 18650** – 26800 support (I would say 65mm – ~90mm total length supported) Storage mode (Charges or discharges to ~3.7V) Capacity testing (1A discharge is fine for me) Manually adjustable charging current (Up to 3A**)
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It will be nice if you can add some identification to your cell (barcode/QR/RFID/etc) and a reader to the charger so we can have history of our cells (num of cycles, capacity, etc.) 

My FW repository

My BLF/OL contest entries: 7th 8th 9th 

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power bank mode.  

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Here are two features I would like to see in future advanced chargers.

1. Display actual charging current
It would be nice if ACTUAL charging current is displayed during charging. For example, when a charger is set to push 2A into a battery, the charging current slowly decreases as the battery fills up. I would like to monitor that information. I find the following information useful in my current charger: voltage, configured charging current, charged capacity in mA, time, internal resistance, and temperature. I would like to see actual charging current in addition to the information listed above.

2. Improved contacts
I would like improved contacts. I like chargers that displays detailed information of charged batteries, especially that displays internal resistance. I understand internal resistance measured in most chargers are inaccurate, but it still is an useful piece of information. However, the internal resistance measured usually depends on the goodness of contact between the charger and batteries. If I squeeze the contacts for better electric connection, I usually get better IR measurements. If the metal contact that are usually used in the chargers are improved, then I think the measurements can be much more reliable.

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A charger with 4 point measurement for the IR and a storage mode (3.7V). Battery size from 16340 to 26800. Cell chemistry: Li-Ion, Ni-MH, NiCd and LiFePO4.

raccoon city
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pho wrote:

A charger with 4 point measurement for the IR and a storage mode (3.7V). Battery size from 16340 to 26800. Cell chemistry: Li-Ion, Ni-MH, NiCd and LiFePO4.

Ooh...

Great ideas!

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vapcell Dennis wrote:
TimMc wrote:
vapcell Dennis wrote:
Need 4*2a or 4*1.5a, 4*1a discharge?

Max 4*1.5A discharge is probably good for cells that we use for flashlights.

If the charger supported protected 26800 cells, that would make it easier to try to verify the capacity.

If there are 26800 batteries with protective plates on the market, the length is expected to be 86mm,even more

If this charger is compatible with 16340, the spring is a great challenge and needs to be adjusted

If only 18650-26900 is charged, the design is very simple

Do you think it should be compatible with small batteries?

A quad charger that had 2 bays 26800 capable and 2 that were 16340 capable would be cool.

vapcell Dennis
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TimMc wrote:
vapcell Dennis wrote:
Do you think it should be compatible with small batteries?

Yes, support for small cells like 10440 with a 250mA charging current or less is nice.

Protected 26800 probably isn’t necessary. I mentioned it to try to cover all unprotected 26800 lengths.

Dimples on the negative terminal and a protruding positive terminal (e.g. S4+) make it possible to charge cells with a recessed positive terminal. Film around a 10440 cell may not allow the negative end to touch a flat negative terminal.

Perhaps a 4-slot charger could be designed for up to 18650, and a larger 4-slot charger could be designed for 18650 to 26900.

The positive and negative terminals of s4+ charger are designed to better contact the battery

Can this design be continued in the future, or should it be improved? To fit more battery sizes

vapcell Dennis
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Bort wrote:
Have a 4V/80% charge option for those who want to charge batteries to 80% so their batteries will live longer before wearing out from age.

Is this a storage function or something else

raccoon city
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vapcell Dennis wrote:
Bort wrote:

Have a 4V/80% charge option for those who want to charge batteries to 80% so their batteries will live longer before wearing out from age.

Is this a storage function or something else

If a Li-Ion cell is charged to about 80%, then the cell will last longer.

When not using a Li-Ion cell for a while, it can better if it's charged to about 80% for storage.

I'm sure Bort can explain it better than I can, though.

vapcell Dennis
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Kardel wrote:
My personal opinion is that supporting 18650-26800 is perfectly fine. There are plenty of other chargers suitable for smaller sizes but very few for larger sizes.

I think one mistake manufacturers make is that if the charger doesn’t support smaller sizes that it is suddenly going to have no market? Personally I like longer chargers as it makes getting 18650/21700 in and out of the charger easier.

I would like to see the following;

  • 2 or 4 bay charger
  • 3A charging per slot
  • USB-C PD for power input*
  • 18650** – 26800 support (I would say 65mm – ~90mm total length supported)
  • Storage mode (Charges or discharges to ~3.7V)
  • Capacity testing (1A discharge is fine for me)
  • Manually adjustable charging current (Up to 3A**)

*I am not overly familiar with the limitations of USB-PD in terms of power delivery but I don’t see why it wouldn’t deliver enough power. Personally I would take a slight charging hit (Maybe a max of 3A x 2 slots or 2A x 4) in order to have USB-PD input.

**I would say if you could include 14500 size batteries that would also help your market. They’re a lot longer than 16340 and I don’t think would require too much additional modification. I would have a lower minimum charging current if supporting 14500 batteries.

By eliminating shorter batteries you can cut costs of manufacturing/R&D as you have said.

Only other feature I can think of that would be nice is if it also had USB output (Either through the same port or another port), but this isn’t a deal breaker.

As TimMC said above the form factor is slowly becoming more common but availability is definitely not the best. I purchased a bulk quantity to sell into my small local market which has worked well and one of the most common question is “Which charger” to which I reply XTAR SC1 Plus as it’s essentially the only good one on the market.

Thank you for your suggestion. This kind of battery is more suitable for fast charging of high current batteries instead of small batteries

The higher power of usb-pd is used in the charger. It is expected that there will be some difficulties, mainly in terms of cost, protocol and current distribution

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18650 to 26800 works for me. I have plenty of chargers for smaller batteries. I only charge one or two batteries at a time, but a four slot with slot 1 & 4 for 26800 would work too. Storage voltage and 4.0v options would be nice, but not required for me. I can just check the voltage every now and then, lol. I do not like chargers that get really hot. High quality with whatever extras you think will sell best. Thanks for asking.

TimMc
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vapcell Dennis wrote:
Can this design be continued in the future, or should it be improved? To fit more battery sizes

It could be improved by making the top part of the positive terminal a bit bigger, and by adding a small nipple on that big bit so that flat top 10440 and 14500 cells easily fit.

I managed to short a flat top 14500 cell in my S4+ charger and it left a burn mark on the insulation ring.

Kardel
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vapcell Dennis wrote:

Thank you for your suggestion. This kind of battery is more suitable for fast charging of high current batteries instead of small batteries

The higher power of usb-pd is used in the charger. It is expected that there will be some difficulties, mainly in terms of cost, protocol and current distribution

I agree that keeping a standard barrel plug (Or whatever is currently used) would be cheaper but I would like to see consolidation of power input ports from manufacturers across industries.

It’s not a deal breaker for me though, just something that’s nice to have. Ultimately you have to decide from a business perspective whether it’s worth pursuing.

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