Successor of IMALENT MS18

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Fedtro
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Successor of IMALENT MS18

In the lumen warfare that two of the most important flashlight manufacturers have been carrying out for a few years, there is a rumor that the next Monster lumen could have 18 SFH55.2 LEDs and something like 150000 lumens, in your opinion it is possible technically speaking, I believe that the limit is not so much in the cooling as in the ability to deliver so much power with the best 21700 batteries we have around.

nick779
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Imalent lights are already fire hazards, so I’m not really interested in another lumen king. It’s all just bragging rights, but little real world use.

Fedtro
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Someone might be interested and someone else less but mine was just a technical curiosity or if it is possible with the current 21700 batteries or with a 21700 battery pack to be able to obtain these performances because the LEDs with active cooling allow it but the batteries?

nick779
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Fedtro wrote:

Someone might be interested and someone else less but mine was just a technical curiosity or if it is possible with the current 21700 batteries or with a 21700 battery pack to be able to obtain these performances because the LEDs with active cooling allow it but the batteries?

It’s not really a battery problem, it’s a heat issue. The MS18 hits 70C in a minute on turbo, all while stepping down or possibly sagging to about 14k lumens.
As time goes on, the light maintains roughly 12k lumens, but hits 80C+ during this output even with cooling.
https://zeroair.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/zeroair_reviews_imalent_m...

I’m sure we could get more light with more power and a physically bigger light. The problem is most likely the market/who would actually buy it.

Fedtro
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It appears that Acebeam with the recent X75 which is much smaller than the MS18 has managed to build a much more efficient forced cooling system which has allowed it to achieve nearly the same output values ​​in half the size.

 

 

 

 

Sirstinky
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We will see how the X75 goes. From a power perspective we have adequate power sources…8×21700 like 40T equivalents can easily provide over 500 watts or more. The issue is heat. 18xsfn55.2 leds makes much more heat than 18 xhp70.2 and much less efficient. There would be a Lumen bump, but an even deeper drop off after a few seconds. A new cooling solution would be needed.

Fedtro
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Sirstinky wrote:
Vedremo come va l'X75.
Dal punto di vista energetico abbiamo fonti di alimentazione adeguate... 8x21700 come equivalenti 40T possono facilmente fornire oltre 500 watt o più. Il problema è il calore. 18xsfn55.2 led fa molto più calore di 18 xhp70.2 e molto meno efficiente. Ci sarebbe un urto di Lumen, ma una caduta ancora più profonda dopo pochi secondi. Sarebbe necessaria una nuova soluzione di raffreddamento.

 

I think we are thinking of a forced liquid cooling system even if I don't understand where they would place the exchanger.

 

 

nick779
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Fedtro wrote:

Sirstinky wrote:
Vedremo come va l’X75.
Dal punto di vista energetico abbiamo fonti di alimentazione adeguate… 8×21700 come equivalenti 40T possono facilmente fornire oltre 500 watt o più. Il problema è il calore. 18xsfn55.2 led fa molto più calore di 18 xhp70.2 e molto meno efficiente. Ci sarebbe un urto di Lumen, ma una caduta ancora più profonda dopo pochi secondi. Sarebbe necessaria una nuova soluzione di raffreddamento.

 

I think we are thinking of a forced liquid cooling system even if I don’t understand where they would place the exchanger.

 

 

Backpack mounted pump and radiator haha. That’s an interesting idea.

I’m curious what would happen with a “better engineered” fan system and heatsink fins. Maybe some ductwork for flow, heatpipes or something to aid wicking to a better head dissipation system.

Fedtro
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nick779][quote=Fedtro wrote:

Sirstinky wrote:
Vedremo come va l'X75.
Dal punto di vista energetico abbiamo fonti di alimentazione adeguata... 8x21700 come equivalenti 40T possono fornire facilmente oltre 500 watt o più. Il problema è il calore. 18xsfn55.2 led fa molto più calore di 18 xhp70.2 e molto meno efficiente. Ci sarebbe un urto di Lumen, ma una caduta ancora più profonda dopo pochi secondi. Sarebbe necessaria una nuova soluzione di raffreddamento.

 

Penso che stiamo pensando ad un sistema di raffreddamento a liquido forzato anche se non capisco dove collocherebbero lo scambiatore.

 

 

Pompa e radiatore montati sullo zaino ahah. È un'idea interessante. Sono curioso di sapere cosa accadrebbe con un sistema di ventole "meglio progettato" e alette del dissipatore di calore. Forse alcuni condotti per il flusso, tubi di calore o qualcosa per aiutare l'assorbimento di un migliore sistema di dissipazione della testa.[/quote

 

It is not at all easy to cool all this heat, I am reminded of what is used in car tuning, a small water tank with jets of water spray that take away the excess heat in the points of greatest heat.

Sirstinky
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To cool 500 watts or more reliably you need a very robust cooling solution. Even over the counter CPU coolers with 240mm radiators are only good for around 300 watts TDP. I’ve worked around servers with dual 250W TDP Xeons with huge tower coolers and loud high performance fans to keep them within the 30-40C operating temperature threshold. I have some older solid copper coolers (weigh 2 lbs each) for Xeons with loud, high flow fans also. There’s a hard limit to air-air coolers for size, noise, and weight. You could fabricobble a liquid cooler, bit it’s going to be bulky and heavy and complicated.

Xyrium
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Indeed, liquid immersion is back in style for high density server installs. Everything old is new...

 

That said, it's probably the same crowd who buys quad emitter high output pocket rockets that are only good for about 30 seconds in use (I own both the D4V2 and an ED18 Smile )

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Imalent MS18 is 1000+W on turbo. Don’t think it can be beaten easily.
Maybe 12× 21700 can improve it a bit because on turbo, the fan inside MS18 slow down due to voltage drop.

cool i'll see you when you get there

Fedtro
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DENGOH wrote:
Imalent MS18 è 1000+W con turbo.
Non pensare che possa essere battuto facilmente. Forse 12x 21700 può migliorarlo un po' perché sul turbo, la ventola all'interno di MS18 rallenta a causa della caduta di tensione.

 

It is the same Imalent that is trying to overcome MS18

DENGOH
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Fedtro wrote:

DENGOH wrote:
Imalent MS18 è 1000+W con turbo.
Non pensare che possa essere battuto facilmente. Forse 12× 21700 può migliorarlo un po’ perché sul turbo, la ventola all’interno di MS18 rallenta a causa della caduta di tensione.

 

It is the same Imalent that is trying to overcome MS18


Ya, I think Imalent should put XHP70.3 in it, and release a 12× 21700.
I have this light for over two years, and it is the most used flashlight for Saturday fun night. I have a lot flashlights, I pick MS18 everytime if I go out to shine light into the darkness.
Go easy with the 100k lumen because it won’t last long as it heat up very fast, I use the 22k-30k lumens more often as it can last longer without being too hot.
Max lumen 60k-100k lumens are for show, but middle lumens are more fun and last longer.

cool i'll see you when you get there

Fedtro
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DENGOH wrote:
Fedtro wrote:

DENGOH wrote:
Imalent MS18 è 1000+W con turbo.
Non pensare che possa essere battuto facilmente. Forse 12x 21700 può migliorarlo un po' perché sul turbo, la ventola all'interno di MS18 rallenta a causa della caduta di tensione.

 

È la stessa Imalent che sta cercando di superare MS18

Sì, penso che Imalent dovrebbe inserire XHP70.3 e rilasciare un 12x 21700. Ho questa luce da oltre due anni ed è la torcia più usata per il divertimento del sabato sera. Ho molte torce elettriche, scelgo MS18 ogni volta se esco per illuminare l'oscurità. Vai piano con il 100k lumen perché non durerà a lungo poiché si riscalda molto velocemente, uso più spesso i 22k-30k lumen perché può durare più a lungo senza essere troppo caldo. Max lumen 60k-100k lumen sono per lo spettacolo, ma i lumen medi sono più divertenti e durano più a lungo.

 

I think we won't have to wait very long, the most certain date is by the end of next year but I don't think they will use XHP70.3

Hoop
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You guys are underestimating how easy it is to best something like the MS18.

The modders used to be ahead of the commercial products. Now that seems to have switched, which is laughable really.

Fedtro
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Hoop wrote:
Voi ragazzi state sottovalutando quanto sia facile migliorare qualcosa come l'MS18.
I modder erano in anticipo sui prodotti commerciali. Ora sembra essere cambiato, il che è davvero ridicolo.

 

Can you give some examples of MS18 modified by modder?

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When I say “modder” I am referring to the people who build stuff from components or from scratch.

Building a super light mostly comes down to cost, as well as size and weight considerations. You can imagine all sorts of super powerful designs, but how much size and weight is practical? It depends on how strong and large the person who’s carrying the thing is. Something as large as the THOR spotlight is actually rather comfortable to carry with a shoulder strap. Beyond a certain point you have to go to a backpack + panel configuration, then it’s a question of how large a panel can you hold, and how heavy a backpack can you carry.

Those Thor spotlights make good hosts by the way.

Sirstinky
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Hoop wrote:
When I say “modder” I am referring to the people who build stuff from components or from scratch.

Building a super light mostly comes down to cost, as well as size and weight considerations. You can imagine all sorts of super powerful designs, but how much size and weight is practical? It depends on how strong and large the person who’s carrying the thing is. Something as large as the THOR spotlight is actually rather comfortable to carry with a shoulder strap. Beyond a certain point you have to go to a backpack + panel configuration, then it’s a question of how large a panel can you hold, and how heavy a backpack can you carry.

Those Thor spotlights make good hosts by the way.

I have a generic one of those I was planning to mod with an HID, or multiple SFN55.2 leds, but probably won’t happen. I was into this type of nodding before. It was fun to build a one-off, but its a lot of work, lots of headaches, frustration, and it was expensive. For the time involved and the cost, it was cheaper and easier to buy a off the shelf light. I tried to build a GT90 equivalent In 2020 when we were quarantined but scrapped it due to the technical issues and financial drain (I killed like 4 xhp70.2s at $18 each, 2 drivers at 16 each. There’s a limit o what you can do for these projects without investing in a mill or lathe or 3D printer to take it to the next level.

It’s easier to buy one (if you have the cash for an MS18 or R90TS)

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Putting this in MS18Wv2 and drive it at 58W will be nice and fortify MS18 as longest throw of lumens king. Mine is MS18W.

With XHP70.3 HI in MS18Wv2, 100k Lumens with 600+ KCD is possible.

http://kaidomain.com/Cree-XHP70_3-HI-White-5700K-CRI90-SMD-7070-LED

cool i'll see you when you get there

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nick779 wrote:
Imalent lights are already fire hazards, so I’m not really interested in another lumen king. It’s all just bragging rights, but little real world use.

Imalent lights’ button is easily to active, exist safe hidden danger and kindle fire hazard.