GT FC40 vs 519A vs B35AM ???

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Chicken Drumstick
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GT FC40 vs 519A vs B35AM ???

Can anyone school me and tell me the different traits (pros/cons) of each of these emitters? I have been absent from the site for a while and I’m not familiar with any of these.

I see Simon is offering all of them in the Convoy M21B 21700 as well as the XHP70.2

4000-4500k is the temp range I’d be looking at.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004760250568.html?pdp_npi=2%40dis%21...

lfb
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Gt-fc40 will have the best output with great tint. I think that Simon can replace the XHP70.2 for xhp70.3hi if you ask. But I’m not sure about the bins offered. Output would be even better than gt-fc40.

cannga
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IMHO and based strictly on the lights I have. Hope this helps.

GT-FC40 in M21B, E, and F all 4500k:
Overall: Offered in M21B (rear switch), but also more importantly in E and F which have USB-C integral charging and side switch. Throw is roughly 280m (M21B) to 330m (M21E). Orange peel reflector. I have just also bought the 5500k version and preliminary verdict is that it is also fantastic with CRI 98.
Color rendition: The CRI and R9 is absolute world class. This LED in actual use (vs beamshot) has an uncanny resemblance to 219b 4500k, in fact more like 219b than any other LED except Nichia’s own E21a. I call this the Nichia imitator because of this reason.
This LED is at this time the only medium thrower with top notch color rendition on market. These Convoy lights in my mind are the prototype every-day all-around light and THE gift light I buy for friends and relatives. All 3 recommended without reservation.

519a 4500k in S21D:
Overall: I have the S21D version (rear switch), quad LED, TIR optic. The CCT tends to be lower than spec, 4500k actually measures about 4000k, partially explaining why this LED is more golden/yellow than expected.
Color Rendition: World class CRI and beautiful golden/yellow beam color, with tint that is more neutral/closer to BBL and NOT rosy or magenta. It is not a thrower like my GT-FC40. I love this light also because it gives a very different beam color from the legendary Nichia 219b 4500k (the king of rosy tint and color rendition), while still having excellent CRI. Like having different types of wine. If I have to pick one, I would still go for Nichia 219b 4500k though.
This LED and the GT-FC40 are not competitors of each other in the sense that they are in my mind different classes of LED/light. 519a is floody light, better for more close up work and not outdoor exploration/“safety” light for example, IMO.

B35AM in M21B 4500k:
Overall: I just bought this one because the pedigree is extremely intriguing – supposed to be equivalence of four Nichia E21a’s grouped together in one LED. The comparison between this light and GT-FC40 in same host would be fascinating. Unfortunately it is offered only in M21B and not E and F. Not sure about output and throw vs GT-FC40 in same host.
Color Rendition: World class CRI, but what does it look like? Curiously I do have E21a and know that it is very magenta/rosy like 219b 4500k, but from youtube review of the B35AM I can’t tell for sure. I will just have to find out for myself. OCD Smile white wall beamshots coming as soon as light gets here.

I would vote to hold off on XHP 70.3 until you could see more reviews with beamshots and how good Simon’s bin is. I had Thrunite T2 with XHP70.2 “Neutral White” and it has tremendous output but also is the worst green hell I’ve seen. I found one review of XHP70.3 https://thelitereview.com/flashlights/cyansky-p25-v2-0-review-xhp-70-3-led/ and that particular LED looks like that green monster is still there. Let others go first on this one.

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b & B35AM (Ra~98 R9~99), Getian GT-FC40 4500k, Luminus SBT90.2

Helpful & xtremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

Argo
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I agree with cannga.

sidpost
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Pretty good overall assessment by cannga.

phantom23
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519A should be the most efficient and therefore offer the longest runtime (still pretty short, don’t expect long runtime from any of them). It’s the only one without the magenta-rosy tint that some enthusiasts love but many people (myself included) can’t stand.

stephenk
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I would disagree that the 519A (domed) and GT-FC40 are “rosy”. They are are both relatively neutral in tint, which for most LED use cases is desirable. The 519A is generally very close to the BBL in either direction. The GT-FC is fairly close to the BBL, but seems to have a larger range of DUV in samples. They will be “rosy” if you compare them to many other modern LED emitters that have positive DUV, but they don’t have an extreme magenta tint/negative DUV like the 219B. Obviously if you dedome a 519A it will be “rosy”.

phantom23
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I never said 519A is rosy, quite the opposite.

manithree
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phantom23 wrote:
519A should be the most efficient and therefore offer the longest runtime (still pretty short, don’t expect long runtime from any of them). It’s the only one without the magenta-rosy tint that some enthusiasts love but many people (myself included) can’t stand.

I could be reading it wrong, and in isolation, the 519A is probably more efficient than the B35AM, but according to L.R.O. reviews of the S21B 519A and the S21A B35AM the B35AM with the boost driver ends up being a more efficient system than the 519A with linear driver. I think.

ETA: Obviously, that’s not to say that there couldn’t be a more efficient 3V driver for a 519A. But from convoy, I like the B35AM.

BlueSwordM
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In terms of efficiency at mid output, it is:

519A < B35AM <= GT FC40

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

phantom23
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BlueSwordM wrote:
In terms of efficiency at mid output, it is:

519A < B35AM <= GT FC40


Are you sure you used those symbols as intended?
sidpost
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manithree wrote:
phantom23 wrote:
519A should be the most efficient and therefore offer the longest runtime (still pretty short, don't expect long runtime from any of them). It's the only one without the magenta-rosy tint that some enthusiasts love but many people (myself included) can't stand.
I could be reading it wrong, and in isolation, the 519A is probably more efficient than the B35AM, but according to L.R.O. reviews of the "S21B 519A":https://budgetlightforum.com/node/81975 and the "S21A B35AM":https://budgetlightforum.com/node/81501 the B35AM with the boost driver ends up being a more efficient system than the 519A with linear driver. I _think_. ETA: Obviously, that's not to say that there couldn't be a more efficient 3V driver for a 519A. But from convoy, I like the B35AM.

Comparing one with a Boost Driver and the other with a Linear Driver is a bit apples to grapefruit in terms of a comparison.

My B35AM in a Convoy M21B produces a lovely beam.  However, I generally prefer the 519A beams.  Whether one is more or less efficient than the other is really open to debate because both are close to each other when driven the same.  I tend to think the 519A is more flexible in terms of power profiles and emitter output.

cannga
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MoreHiCRILumens wrote:
I would love to see runtime comparison between those. Just 3x M21B’s with different leds side-by-side with temperature and lumen numbers. Would’t be “perfect” comparison, because different leds are probably pushing out different amount of lumens at different levels, but it would give some data regarding things like “most” efficient lumen/current range or something like that.

Good review with measurements https://budgetlightforum.com/node/81501 . Outstanding CRI and R9 numbers, but 1100 lm is only low side vs GT-FC40. I have this light coming and will compare head to head with my GT-FC40 in same host M21B. I am excited about my B35AM light in MAO finish Thumbs Up but if throw and brightness are what you’re interested in, from reading reviews I don’t believe it will match GT-FC40.

It seems CRI of XHP70.3 4000k per Simon is 70. And it’s a Cree (very high green hell potential). I would vote to pass or at least let other people be the guinea pig Innocent on this one.

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b & B35AM (Ra~98 R9~99), Getian GT-FC40 4500k, Luminus SBT90.2

Helpful & xtremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

manithree
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sidpost wrote:

Comparing one with a Boost Driver and the other with a Linear Driver is a bit apples to grapefruit in terms of a comparison.

I carry and use flashlights, not loose LEDs, so the performance of the entire system matters. If the 519a is more efficient on paper, but commercially available flashlights with B35AMs get longer runtimes than flashlights with the same battery and a 519A, then that’s what counts to me.

Chicken Drumstick
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Thanks for the replies. Not sure I’m really all that clear why you’d buy one over another still.

Not sure runtime efficiency really matters all that much. Not if using 18650 or 21700 cells.

Don’t suppose anyone has a side by side picture of the different LEDs showing their relative sizes?

phantom23
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cannga wrote:
I am excited about my B35AM light in MAO finish Thumbs Up but if throw and brightness are what you’re interested in, from reading reviews I don’t believe it will match GT-FC40.

Of course it won’t match the FC-40, B35AM uses 2x less power.
sidpost
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cannga][quote=MoreHiCRILumens wrote:
... It seems CRI of XHP70.3 4000k per Simon is 70. And it's a Cree (very high green hell potential). I would vote to pass or at least let other people be the guinea pig Innocent on this one.

There are some XHP70.3 with a CRI of 80 and 90 out there!  70 is the lowest I have seen and that tends to be on the very cool emitters.

I have a couple I'm working on from Simon, an L6 and M21F.

FURNAL
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Which one of those would throw the most? 519a with dome one or B35AM?
Currently have a Convoy M21B GT-FC40 in 4500k which I love, but I would like something just a little more throwy, yet still high cri and warm tint. With the M21B MAO being available, I am thinking maybe getting another one of those, but would a B35AM be throwier than the GT-FC40?

LTC
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In terms of throw in the same host, I will say throw will be 519A>B35AM>GT-FC40.

FURNAL wrote:
Which one of those would throw the most? 519a with dome one or B35AM? Currently have a Convoy M21B GT-FC40 in 4500k which I love, but I would like something just a little more throwy, yet still high cri and warm tint. With the M21B MAO being available, I am thinking maybe getting another one of those, but would a B35AM be throwier than the GT-FC40?
phantom23
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I don’t know, B35AM with it fairly compact domeless form factor and higher brightness may thow at least equally good.
Maybe just get the M21A or E?

CollectEverything
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Does anyone have an opinion on what the best GT FC40 host is? Seems like it needs a certain amount of thermal mass and battery capacity to truly “shine.”

Currently I have an 1800-2000k FC40 in a Convoy L6. It’s great, but the size to performance ratio is lacking for a spoiled person like me. Maybe the size to performance ratio would be just fine with the cooler temperatures. Still, I’m not convinced that L6 is the best host in general since its heat-sink fins are so shallow in the driver area.

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cannga
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FURNAL wrote:
Which one of those would throw the most? 519a with dome one or B35AM? Currently have a Convoy M21B GT-FC40 in 4500k which I love, but I would like something just a little more throwy, yet still high cri and warm tint. With the M21B MAO being available, I am thinking maybe getting another one of those, but would a B35AM be throwier than the GT-FC40?

I have B35AM in a couple weeks and will compare throw against GT-FC40 in same host, M21B.

Another choice as mentioned by phantom23 is M21E. It is noticeably more throwy than M21B. I don’t have the numbers with me but roughly IIRC it’s about 280m for M21B and 330m M21E. (Please don’t quote me on this; I measured all 3 but somehow completely forgot to post in my other thread.)

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b & B35AM (Ra~98 R9~99), Getian GT-FC40 4500k, Luminus SBT90.2

Helpful & xtremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

cannga
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CollectEverything wrote:
Does anyone have an opinion on what the best GT FC40 host is? Seems like it needs a certain amount of thermal mass and battery capacity to truly “shine.” Currently I have an 1800-2000k FC40 in a Convoy L6. It’s great, but the size to performance ratio is lacking for a spoiled person like me. Maybe the size to performance ratio would be just fine with the cooler temperatures. Still, I’m not convinced that L6 is the best host in general since its heat-sink fins are so shallow in the driver area.

I too much prefer “smallish” lights. I have M21B, F, and E all with GT-FC40 4500k. E is noticeably most throwy, and the larger head is not too cumbersome. I use it most often because I like to see further ahead in my evening walk. And I tend to like throwy light.

B has dimmest hotspot but brightest spill (most floody)
E has brightest hotspot and dimmest spill (most throwy).
F is in between, but leans more towards B.

This LED doesn’t seem to burn up everything in sight like SBT90.2 Facepalm Smile . Thermal mass always helps but IMHO not that critical, at least among these 3 lights. Sustained brightness from Turbo run is around 37% of max, the smaller M21B just steps down a bit sooner. None of the 3 lights becomes excessively hot as with smaller lights. Hope this helps.

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b & B35AM (Ra~98 R9~99), Getian GT-FC40 4500k, Luminus SBT90.2

Helpful & xtremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

cannga
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Effect of size on runtime brightness M21F versus E, using ceiling bounce percentage.

All 3 M21B, E, F settle around 37%. My conclusion IMHO: The difference between B, E, F is not so much sustained brightness but more the character of the beam (hotspot vs spill).

BTW the left-most blue curve that looks like it’s falling off a cliff Smile is S21D with 12A FET driver.

https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1881819#comment-1881819

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b & B35AM (Ra~98 R9~99), Getian GT-FC40 4500k, Luminus SBT90.2

Helpful & xtremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

CollectEverything
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cannga wrote:
Effect of size on runtime brightness M21F versus E, using ceiling bounce percentage.

All 3 M21B, E, F settle around 37%. My conclusion IMHO: The difference between B, E, F is no so much sustained brightness but more the character of the beam (hotspot vs spill).

BTW the left-most blue curve that looks like it’s falling off a cliff Smile is S21D with 12A FET driver.

https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1881819#comment-1881819

!https://i.imgur.com/fhWvkME.jpg!

What batteries do you use? I guess a samsung 50e would not have a high enough continuous discharge rating?

One good thing about the L6 is it has pretty decent battery capacity since you can choose the Shockli 26650 IMR 5500mAh or use tube extenders to put in 26800 batteries. Not sure how real world run-times would compare but I assume the L6 would win.

Edit: I guess vapcell has 26650 cells that are nominally 6200mah but with a ctd. I guess depending on the light those would be a superior choice for capacity

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cannga
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CollectEverything wrote:
What batteries do you use? I guess a samsung 50e would not have a high enough continuous discharge rating?

One good thing about the L6 is it has pretty decent battery capacity since you can choose the Shockli 26650 IMR 5500mAh or use tube extenders to put in 26800 batteries. Not sure how real world run-times would compare but I assume the L6 would win.

Edit: I guess vapcell has 26650 cells that are nominally 6200mah but with a ctd. I guess depending on the light those would be a superior choice for capacity

I have tested Samsung 40T against Wurkkos, Littokala, and Sofirn etc. in my FC40 lights and also the Wurkkos TS30S with monster LED SBT90.2.

In the Wurkkos light, Samsung 40T registers a shocking 15% gain for Turbo turn-on brightness, using ceiling bounce. I repeated the test multiple times because I couldn’t believe it, but 15% it was. https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1861552#comment-1861552

In the GT-FC40 lights, Samsung 40T makes no brightness difference vs other less capable batteries. Assuming the spring or something else is not the limiting factor, my thought is that FC40 LED is not that current hungry enough for these batteries to make a difference. But this is just amateur level test; I have not measured the actual current draw.

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b & B35AM (Ra~98 R9~99), Getian GT-FC40 4500k, Luminus SBT90.2

Helpful & xtremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

nicodimus22
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CollectEverything wrote:
I guess vapcell has 26650 cells that are nominally 6200mah but with a ctd. I guess depending on the light those would be a superior choice for capacity

Yeah, the Vapcell K62 are what I use in the L6. I do have 6800 mAh 26800 cells, but honestly the difference in runtime between 12400 mAh and 13600 mAh is not very much in real world usage, and I like the size, weight, and balance of the L6 exactly how they are.

CollectEverything
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nicodimus22 wrote:
CollectEverything wrote:
I guess vapcell has 26650 cells that are nominally 6200mah but with a ctd. I guess depending on the light those would be a superior choice for capacity

Yeah, the Vapcell K62 are what I use in the L6. I do have 6800 mAh 26800 cells, but honestly the difference in runtime between 12400 mAh and 13600 mAh is not very much in real world usage, and I like the size, weight, and balance of the L6 exactly how they are.


I have QB26800 cells in my L7 (SBT 90.2). For that host I feel that it actually improves the balance but I haven’t tried them in the L6. Which 26800s do you have? I have heard that the yellow Queen Battery 26800s test at 7100mah but haven’t tested mine.

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Garageboy
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I was thinking of either the b35am or the gt fc40 in a D1V2 – but I came across this thread

https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/xg11tf/what_does_your_emisa...

Is the flux binning on the gt fc 40 really that inconsistent?

cannga
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Garageboy wrote:
I was thinking of either the b35am or the gt fc40 in a D1V2 – but I came across this thread

https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/xg11tf/what_does_your_emisa...

Is the flux binning on the gt fc 40 really that inconsistent?

Can’t speak for Emisar but I have 4 Convoys all w/ FC40 4500k and some quick readings this morning with the TA lumen tube – highest values:

M21B 2250 lm
M21F #1 2150 lm
M21F #2 2220 lm
M21E 2140 lm

I also have the Nichia BAM in Convoy M21B. IMHO, the BAM is low heat low output (~1000 lm) at 2.4v so small host is ok. FC40 is high output high heat, at least in Convoy, so if possible I would prefer a larger host for less step-down if you tend to use your light at high output.

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b & B35AM (Ra~98 R9~99), Getian GT-FC40 4500k, Luminus SBT90.2

Helpful & xtremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

Garageboy
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Appreciate you taking the time to get that data for us

For the same CCT, is there any significant tint difference?

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