@limsup good catch - thanks. Did you have a chance to check what I got for temp?
If we assume 5000k behaves similar to 5700k, then this means the temp factor alone would be an explanation for why TS32 looks so green with lower output. At least, this was my observation for the 519a 4500k (I sat and watched y drops with time).
The way that temp curve from Correllux drops straight down the y axis is impressive/interesting and a sure indication of temp causing Duv drops, I think.
I’ve read about LED being green at lower output and less so at higher output from other reviewers. TS32 is probably the most obvious change that I’ve seen, green at lower output and beautiful at Turbo.
I just checked the first one. The reason I checked it was because the numbers did not look right. You noted higher CCT for lower current, which I thought was odd. After checking the numbers myself, it was apparent that you mistakenly flipped the numbers around.
I observe that too that in lower output the light appears more green and looks nicer at higher output. I notice it on my TS25 (Nichia 519A 5000K) and notice it more on SP10 (Samsung LH351D 5000K). However, my measurements are somewhat inconsistent with what I see. I measured DUV for 7 stepped output on my TS25 and they clearly have upward trend along the output levels. That is, higher the output higher the DUV. DUV for 3/7 (about 10lm) output was –0.0017 where as 0.0010 for 7/7 output (about 900lm). Also, the shifts in CCT along the output levels were quite large. Lowest was 4490 and highest was 4879 (max difference 389). I think DUV comparisons do not give consistent results with what I see when CCT changes a lot.
At first, I thought higher DUV for higher output applies to all 519A leds, but I was wrong. I recently reflowed 519A on my TINI2 with the leds taken from my broken TS25. I checked DUV across different output levels (15lm to 500lm), and they pretty much stayed around –0.0038. The shifts in CCT across output were WAY smaller compared to TS25 (4824 to 4984, max difference 160). So, I think the way leds are driven (and possibly different optics) matters a lot. It may also have to do with the number of leds. There are 2 leds on TINI2 and 4 on TS25.
I will have to investigate it more. What I can say for certain so far is that CCT tend to go higher as output increases.
@limsup I was just too happy to find (wrong) numbers that support my hypothesis and committed an “investigator”’s no no.
But as usual I’ve learned more from a mistake than a success (don’t we all). And that is looking at Duv curve and predicting what is happening.
I was confident of a Duv drop with higher forward current, from the curve dropping downward (lower y coordinate - a classic sign of more negative Duv) at 2400 mA. But what I didn’t foresee is the BBL curve also curves downward as it moves left. And since Duv is relative to the BBL curve (Correllux mentioned this), Duv values stay the same for both low and high forward currents. I hope I didn’t lose everyone here. I am sure I did lol.
Winter time is great for evening walks; it gets dark so early that every night I get to play with lights. This evening it’s the latest toys pictured below: Wurkkos TS32 and Haikelite HK05.
Flashlights has become such a fun hobby for me because there are nuances and characteristics that make each light special. No one light is completely best/better in every aspect. My Haikelite is the 5000k version, and the beam color reminds me of one of my ex, Thrunite T2 w/ Cree XHP70.2 NW. Which is to say it’s green. This may sound bad, but as long as you don’t do white wall hunting, it’s actually ok. Clocking in at 20,000 lm, the beam has an even spread, with a largish hotspot and bright spill, and excellent throw (will measure later). And yes OMG it’s bright, brightest in my collection so far, and that alone, is a LOT of fun.
What the TS32 got that Haikelite hasn’t, is the 12 high CRI Nichia 519a 5000k. I LOVE the 519a 5000k beam color, personally a lot more than my 519a 4500k (a little too yellow for my taste). As expected, there is absolutely no comparison between color rendering of Haikelite vs Wurkkos, with Wurkkos the clear winner. The beam of TS32 of course has two distinct parts, SFT40’s throw with small hotspot, and the floody 519a “wall of light” that I cannot get enough of. Haikelite is special, but TS32 is more special , and likely MOST special in this group even thought it has less brightness. (When 14,000 lm is quote unquote “less bright”, you know how crazy this group of lights is.) . The Amazon sale for TS32 ends in a few days I think, in case you’re interested.
The one I got on the amazon sale just showed up. I’m pretty pleased with it! The giant amount of light from the twelve 519As is spectacular.
On flood, i measure 50mA for “moon” then 105mA - 825mA - 2.5A - 4.5A and who knows for turbo, I don’t have a power supply that can put out that much current but it shuts my 10A supply right down instantly.
on spot, i measure 20mA - 160mA - 610mA - 1.8A and that’s it. Turbo is also out of range for my measuring setup.
ramped brightness seems to go from moon/eco through to turbo without reserving extra for actual turbo, but I think that’s how it’s supposed to work.
The current draws for mine don’t really bear any resemblance to what’s mentioned in reviews, particularly with the flood “moon” setting drawing nearly twice the current as the lowest spot setting, but whatever, it’s all still pretty good.
UPDATE: It’s also not even faintly water resistant. I ran it under cold water in the sink for a few minutes and it turned itself on, the buttons wouldn’t respond at all, and on opening it I was able to pour water out of the battery compartment. It no longer works at all. Going to probably return this one.
Ouch. Another reminder to not water test these lights.
In a way this thread could be labeled “Invasion of the High Output Chinese Led’s.” The table from Nightwatch below lists various Chinese LED’s and serves as a road map of what I hope to see. Of note at this point these LEDS seem more commonly used in flashlights from obscured companies like Nightwatch, JKK, etc. They are not available on Aliexpress and are found only on Nealgadgets, Kaidomain, etc. For extra buyer’s protection I’d recommend to use Paypal for your purchase.
What else these lights have in common is super low cost. It works out great because I like to experience 20000-lumen beams, but don’t want to pay big bucks for lights that I won’t be using often.
The Wurkkos TS32 is indeed the “odd man out” with Nichia 519a. And although it doesn’t match the brightness of the other superlights (16000 lm Wurkkos vs 20000 plus for the other big boys), the wall of light of the Wurkkos’s 519a 5000k is not only (super) bright enough, but also very clearly the most beautiful of the group. I already feel sure about that even though not all the lights are here yet. Beamshots are coming; I’m just waiting for one more of the super-lights.
Why did you go with the SFN55 for the JKK 76? The SFT40’s are a better thrower, though the wall of light and tint of the 55’s is pretty nice.
Just ordered the TS32, figuring it will be similar to Hank’s DM1.12 but with better runtimes. Plus being able to use flood and spot at the same time. Hopefully the tint is as nice as the 219’s in the DM1.12.
If you expect the tint of 219b 4500k then I am afraid this light will disappoint you. IME 219b makes every other LED I have looks green, and the 519a is no exception.
As mentioned TS32’s 519a is most beautiful only in Turbo mode, where it is not green when judged by itself and not white walling against 219b 4500k. In the context of comparing against these other 15000 lm super-lights, it is very clearly the most beautiful warm-colored wall-of-light.
Do you have DM1.12 with 219b 4500k? Do you know what the lumen output is on the flood channel (can’t seem to find a review with Nichia in flood)? And how’s the stepdown? Very curious because stepdown is already marginal in TS32’s large host, and DM1.12 is so much smaller. If it looks promising I might just get it.
I don’t know how many lumens it has in in flood, enough for me (don’t have a meter). As for the stepdown, I only turbo for seconds at a time if at all. Mostly use my lights to spot garbage before the dog does on the night time walk. I’d imagine it gets hot pretty quick.
Maybe someone else that has it can chime in……
The Haikelite HK05 is an enormous creature, both in weight and in size. It’s solidly constructed and feels like a brick. I believe the weight difference would have implication regarding stepdown vs. Nightwatch Chaos for example, but I haven’t done comparison yet.
The strap that comes with the light is not very good, so I replaced it with my Canon DSLR strap, and then could carry it comfortably. Words can’t describe the look on my wife’s face when she saw this behemoth of a flashlight needing camera strap to carry .
Yeah, it’s really too bad. Are there any soda can types that are known to be actually water resistant? I don’t need it to be submersible but I do want to be able to do things like run water over it in the sink or get splashes on it while working outdoors, which I feel like the letter of “IP68” should allow.
I really don’t think they should advertise these lights as “IP68” since as far as I can tell that means they should survive submersion in fresh water to a depth of 1.5 meters for 30 minutes, and there’s absolutely no way most of these classes of lights would tolerate that.
I have a couple of older generation tail clicky ones like the “brass beauty” 18650 and AA bodies which I’ve left on at the bottom of a swimming pool for hours and were totally fine.
I think there are (those $400 lights?) but it won’t have Nichia 519a, and/or it’s not $100 w/ USB-C charging. Diving lights come to mind also, some surprisingly cheap on Amazon (for shallow depth only?), but I’m no expert. Even if tested ok, I wouldn’t take a chance with any USB-C light as I think that rubber cover piece will degrade with heat.
This discussion reminds me of that saying I once saw in a sports car forum. Something like FAST, CHEAP, RELIABLE; one could only have 2 of the 3. You could have a fast and cheap car, but it won’t be reliable. Or a cheap and reliable car but it won’t be fast. True as gospel.
I trust BUDGET lights’ water rating as much as I trust their oft-inflated output specs (except for Wurkkos TS32 and TS30S). Agreed w/ you that water resistant rating shouldn’t be there.
I took the Lishen battery that Neal/nealsgadgets had included with my Nightwatch Chaos and tested it in my Lumintop D3 and Mateminco PD90S. I don’t know what model it is (it’s pink and has no meaningful number or name on the label) but it very clearly and repeatedly gives the highest “Turbo” output when compared to Samsung 30T/40T and Molicel P42A.
Neagsgadgets Lishen vs Samsung 30T and Molicel P42A:
For Mateminco PD90S: Lishen ~7400 lm, Samsung 30T ~6700 lm
For Lumintop D3: Lishen ~6500 lm, Samsung 30T ~6200 lm
For Nightwatch Chaos: Lishen ~29300 lm Molicel P42A ~22600 lm
Capacity seems low as the Chaos seems to go into LVP a lot. But of course this could be the monstrous Chaos consuming unusually large amount of energy.
Of the batteries I recently got, the Lishen is the “star” of the show, at least when it comes to output at Turbo start. I have no idea what model it is; got it because Neal says it’s needed to get highest output from the Chaos. If you look closely on top of the Lishen there are little copper buttons that Neal has soldered on, for use with Chaos. The Lishen has not disappointed, easily besting Samsung 30T as mentioned in post above.
But there is a trade-off. I just tested with my Opus and the Lishen’s capacity is ~2800 mAh. Now I know why the Chaos seems to want to go into LVP mode all the time lol.
For the Haikelite HK05, Neal recommends Molicel P42A. It also has a little button added on to work with the Haikelite.
Thanks for sharing; your Nightwatch was first batch? Tim did mention in his Chaos review that there are two battery versions, pink and grey. Whatever the mystery, the pink Lishen I have is literally “killing” both Samsung 30T in Mateminco PD90S and Lumintop D3, and especially Molicel P42A in Nightwatch Chaos. I’ll post numbers a little later.
BTW this testing, Turbo brightness @ turn-on with fully charged batteries, is a. for my own curiosity re. the battery, and b. to seek best possible throw and output specs for the light being tested. YMMV but that extra turn on brightness matters VERY little to me. In fact the bright Turbo would just cause faster & more severe stepdown.
Unfortunately one of the lights, I think Lumintop D3 with its 21700 adapter, caused the top plate of my beloved Lishen to cave in. I almost had a heart attack when Chaos didn’t light up anymore and finally suspected the cause and lifted up the plate with small screw driver.
“2170HP” might just be a name Neal created? My number for capacity, 2800 mah, suggests something similar to LR21700LH? OTOH it most definitely doesn’t have weaker turn-on power than 30T in my lights.
I just added to the post above comparison of “Mystery” Nealsgadgets Lishen versus Molicel P42A.
The improvement is unequivocal and the largest I’ve ever seen from any battery comparison for output @ Turbo start:
Nealsgadgets Lishen: 29300 lm
Molicel P42A: 22600 lm
I had a day off from work and was able to run the Nightwatch several times to establish patterns of the outputs from my TA lumen tube. Keep in mind this mystery Lishen has a weakness: 2800 maH capacity. It does not last long in the Chaos if you get too happy playing with its astounding amount of light.
The plate that converts flat top to button top in TS32 fits Haikelite HK05 perfectly. This is how I could test the green flat top Samsung 30T vs Molicel P42A in Haikelite.
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