[2016-06-11] Crackdown on rudeness

[EyeballFryer]

The more I think about it, the more I dislike the “My Rudeness Level” meter. I feel like I’m being watched with accusing eyes who think that I’m going to be rude. It’s like going into a store and the people behind the counter are watching you, thinking you’re going to steal something. It’s doesn’t feel very welcoming, especially if you’re a new user who doesn’t understand where this rudeness meter comes from.

Maybe the “My Rudeness Level” needs a different name, but I can’t think of a good one. Or maybe move the meter to somewhere in the Accounts section.

[will34]

@EyeballFryer

The more I think about it, the more I dislike the “My Rudeness Level” meter. I feel like I’m being watched with accusing eyes who think that I’m going to be rude. It’s like going into a store and the people behind the counter are watching you, thinking you’re going to steal something. It’s doesn’t feel very welcoming, especially if you’re a new user who doesn’t understand where this rudeness meter comes from.

Maybe the “My Rudeness Level” needs a different name, but I can’t think of a good one. Or maybe move the meter to somewhere in the Accounts section.

Agreed, for the past couple days the first thing I check when I enter BLF is the rudeness meter, and it makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable, like if I’m expecting to be judged. I think it should be hidden until certain points are reached.

[emarkd]

Some of the most popular “forums” on the internet have system of varying feedback in place. Reddit is huge and relies heavily on community feedback. Social sites like Facebook or Instagram wouldn’t function without likes and….whatever Instagram has (hearts?). The rudeness meter is nothing but a simplified version of those things (although strictly speaking it does have a more negative focus). I think its a good change and thinking twice before posting, and maybe posting less edgy content overall, is probably a good change for us all.

[Joshk]

@emarkd

Some of the most popular “forums” on the internet have system of varying feedback in place. Reddit is huge and relies heavily on community feedback. Social sites like Facebook or Instagram wouldn’t function without likes and….whatever Instagram has (hearts?). The rudeness meter is nothing but a simplified version of those things (although strictly speaking it does have a more negative focus). I think its a good change and thinking twice before posting, and maybe posting less edgy content overall, is probably a good change for us all.

Agreed. I think it’s already working by just appearing there. We may never know the number of sentences that are edited before even going live just to be more accepted.

[hank]

if you’re a new user who doesn’t understand where this rudeness meter comes from.

Hm.

Could it first open the BLF Rules page, then ask for confirmation while there?

Heck, if we’re postulating the first-time c-less n-bies, “BLF Rules” could be read as simple self-congratulatory cheerleadinging, rather than a link to the site’s rules for posting.

[crowd noise] B! L! F! [lather rinse repeat]

No, I’m still joking here, put down that programmer.

People can figure this out, even on a first visit by someone new to the whole online thing.

They start online at around age 5 nowadays, don’t they?

[ToyKeeper]

@Bort

@ToyKeeper

Anything which gets a lot of +1 and –1 responses is likely a problem, just not quite the same type of problem. Divisiveness is one of the biggest issues on social media… if it splits people into groups and gets them fighting, that’s worth doing something about.

I very quickly skimmed your link, and i disagree
Divisiveness is not the problem, racism, sexism, abuse, elistism and religious “superiority” are the problems. As a society we don’t want to give up looking down on others and justify it with whatever sledge hammer we can come up with. Then we explain it and rationalize it away.

Oh, I don’t mean there is only one issue. There are many, and the ones you brought up are important too.

They all have a tendency to build on each other though, and interact in complex ways. Avoiding certain topics, such as religion and politics, can be just as important as avoiding certain methods, such as “othering” people and escalating conflicts. BLF has rules about both “what” and “how”, since either one tends to cause problems.

[atbglenn]

@Sharpie

Hmm, I’ve been getting one point per post, on this thread, recently.

Interesting.

I suppose I could start dishing them out too, but that would be petty.

This is why this rudeness thing needs to end, and now. I have 13 at this moment. If I lose my account, I’d be upset because I like being here. But if I do, so be it. I have nothing against anyone here. But I think this new feature is going to cause problems amongst us members.

[Bort (BortyMcBortface)]

@atbglenn

@Sharpie

@atbglenn

@Joshk

That thread was doomed from the beginning. It implicitly violated all the rules.

Agreed. It turned into what beverage do you like….Completely off topic. I played into it as well.

The beverage stuff was a concerted attempt to drown out the obvious violations, and needless controversy.

A pity you didn’t understand, yet bring up again into this thread. Why ?

(Please don’t reply).

I get it. But I don’t buy into political correctness like out current administration which will end up destroying America…

(more rude points coming)

Come on Glenn, SB has not been replaced with a forum hating robot, nothing has really changed except he made it easier to pinpoint problem posts with some community help. Destroying America by not approving of those who denigrate others is about as likely as cigarettes not causing cancer :person_facepalming:

[Bort (BortyMcBortface)]

@ToyKeeper

@Bort

@ToyKeeper

Anything which gets a lot of +1 and –1 responses is likely a problem, just not quite the same type of problem. Divisiveness is one of the biggest issues on social media… if it splits people into groups and gets them fighting, that’s worth doing something about.

I very quickly skimmed your link, and i disagree
Divisiveness is not the problem, racism, sexism, abuse, elistism and religious “superiority” are the problems. As a society we don’t want to give up looking down on others and justify it with whatever sledge hammer we can come up with. Then we explain it and rationalize it away.

Oh, I don’t mean there is only one issue. There are many, and the ones you brought up are important too.

They all have a tendency to build on each other though, and interact in complex ways. Avoiding certain topics, such as religion and politics, can be just as important as avoiding certain methods, such as “othering” people and escalating conflicts. BLF has rules about both “what” and “how”, since either one tends to cause problems.

What i am basically saying is if people want to get along they can choose to. We have problems because they don’t and rationalize it away.

[emarkd]

Sb had said that nothing would be done to anybody’s account automatically. I trust sb to be able to look at the data, read the posts, and determine if anything is really worth addressing. Like others have said, nothing’s really changed here except now have an easier reporting mechanism. I would hope that anybody abusing it woudl also be met with moderator action.

In other words, in sb we trust.

One last thought, to Glenn directly - I hang out on Reddit a bit. One of the first things new redditors have to learn is that the fastest way to get downvoted is to complain about downvotes. You’d be better off just not posting about your rudeness meter in any way because it just encourages a certain type of user to make it worse for you.

[ToyKeeper]

@will34

@EyeballFryer

The more I think about it, the more I dislike the “My Rudeness Level” meter. I feel like I’m being watched with accusing eyes who think that I’m going to be rude. It’s like going into a store and the people behind the counter are watching you, thinking you’re going to steal something. It’s doesn’t feel very welcoming, especially if you’re a new user who doesn’t understand where this rudeness meter comes from.

Agreed, for the past couple days the first thing I check when I enter BLF is the rudeness meter, and it makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable, like if I’m expecting to be judged. I think it should be hidden until certain points are reached.

We’re on the public internet. There are a lot more people watching than many of us probably realize. This isn’t really a personal conversation so much as a bunch of published articles.

So we’re all being judged, regardless of the new button and meter. It may be your mother who reads this, or the person hiring at a company you applied for, or a government agency, or even just a bunch of random strangers who like flashlights. We can’t really know who will read it, and should generally keep that in mind while posting.

There are lots of people silently reading everything we say here, judging but not saying anything, and it might be good to be reminded of that once in a while.

[DB_Custom (Dale)]

Once the Maples have filed their grievances against the Oaks, will the unrest ever go away? Or is the entire forest now on edge, awaiting the dreaded hatchet, axe, and saw?

I’m not trying to be sarcastic, I’m asking honestly from pure curiosity as to how this all works. Immediately before it started, someone here was telling people to bugger off, now we’re being given advise on social etiquette by that same person. So yeah, I’m conflicted.

I had someone vividly curse me in an open thread for merely suggesting they read the rules, as they were being rude to a forum member, and that person still walks amongst us! See how that works? The rules are broken, bent, rearranged, but not necessarily enforced according to the rules, so where does that leave us?

And then, am I being “rude” for asking? I have no intention of being rude to anyone, certainly not unprovoked, but it’s true that I’m very forgetful and I’m getting grumpy with old age and increased incessant pain. I am a technical perfectionist. I firmly believe in the black and white of rules. Once solidly stated, they are the concrete of our roadways, the very foundation that we rely on in building our society. So, if the rule says “Rude people will have their accounts deleted.” then how does a 10 count, self-redacting-every-24-hours, “Rudeness Level” speak for that 1st solid golden rule? Does it enforce it? Or negate it?

Guess I really do need a vacation…

Rush “The Trees”

[DB_Custom (Dale)]

TK is right, 5721 reads with 226 posts.

[DBSAR]

Great idea. one of the many reasons i like BLF is because of the friendliness, and it needs to stay that way.

[ToyKeeper]

@atbglenn

@Sharpie

… (Please don’t reply)

… (more rude points coming)

FWIW, the two quoted comments seem like they said things which were expected to be unwelcome, stated parenthetically that the response would probably be negative, and got posted anyway. So, if the meter went up afterward, it should come as no surprise. A conscious decision was made to be “rude”.

There are other ways to express frustration, but they don’t tend to feel as satisfying.

Anyway, it has only been a few days and the time just after a new feature gets people playing with it and exploring it. Like, adding a new bot on IRC almost always results in people playing “kick the bot” for a while. Poking it, prodding it, getting a feel for it. So posts like what I quoted are to be expected for a while. The feature’s actual value (or lack thereof) can’t be determined until after “kick the bot” gets old.

[jhalb]

The Tree's, I Love that song Dale!!

[Bort (BortyMcBortface)]

@ToyKeeper

Like, adding a new bot on IRC almost always results in people playing “kick the bot” for a while. Poking it, prodding it, getting a feel for it. So posts like what I quoted are to be expected for a while. The feature’s actual value (or lack thereof) can’t be determined until after “kick the bot” gets old.

Kick the bot, I love it
Somehow it evokes images of someone kicking the android logo :laughing:
<——- Not an apple fanboy, just a funny mental image

[JamesB]

If people start using the meter as a dislike of somebody’s else opinion, as a way to express their disagrement or antagonise other members this has the potential to do more harm than good.

For this reason i agree that it might be better if the rude meter is hidden from members.

The subjective and nebulous concept of rudeness might be a defeating pitfall here, also in the sens that some of the passive agressiveness, haughtiness, polite condescension or ambiguous trolling, while toxic, (much more so in my mind than strong beliefs or opinions) might pass totally through the net.

Good old light handed,collegial, privatly administered, human forum moderation was pretty efficient at spotting and dealing with pot stirring members, trolls and problem characters.

[jacktheclipper]

I want sometimes to just vent my spleen

And the language required isn't clean

Discourse is splendid

'Till someone's offended

Can't a person just say what they mean ?

It seems everyone has their own views

Why , some people wear them as tattoos !

We all want to be heard

Sometimes boundaries are blurred

Can we walk in another man's shoes ?

Must our sentiments be so covert ?

Should we fear that our thoughts might subvert ?

It might be quite hard

To keep on our guard

In our passion , who knows what we'll blurt ?

[keengeorge]

@jacktheclipper

I want sometimes to just vent my spleen

And the language required isn't clean

Discourse is splendid

'Till someone's offended

Can't a person just say what they mean ?

It seems everyone has their own views

Why , some people wear them as tattoos !

We all want to be heard

Sometimes boundaries are blurred

Can we walk in another man's shoes ?

Must our sentiments be so covert ?

Should we fear that our thoughts might subvert ?

It might be quite hard

To keep on our guard

In our passion , who knows what we'll blurt ?

+1,000,000,000,000,000