I would like to mod my newer D series 3d mag. First and foremost budget is my motto for this build. Secondly I would like to get ~500 lumens OTF with a nice glass lens and a stock mag reflector. I am not looking for amazing I am looking for cheap, simple, and durable.
I have looked at quite a few mag builds and most are balls to the wall 3amps plus and thus require huge custom heatsinks and such. I could easily make a smaller copper sink for my 3d mag with the tools/materials I have on hand. According to match’s awesome emitter results a xm-l2 will put out 775~ lumens at 2 amps and 3.25 volts. I am hoping that will translate to 500 or so OTF lumens considering all losses.
Now at 2 amps will a single xm-l2 need more than 2-3 ounces of copper to be able to run continuously? I assume for continuous running you absolutely have to have contact to the aluminum housing to actually get rid of the heat, right?
Now I have read that D batteries can sag to under 1v under load but I don’t know what load they were being asked to take for that result. Will 3 D batteries in series and under load provide enough voltage for me to run an XM-L2 @ 2 amps (3.25 v) for extended periods?
I understand there will be losses due to the switch and springs and all such connections in the mag host. I am just not experienced enough to understand if this is even remotely possible. I have also read that there are a few ways to decrease these losses with a little effort. I am not short on effort, just on cash. If these will make or break doing this I will gladly put the time in to do so. Also I have a small amount of copper lying around by coincidence so the price is right.
Is direct drive a possibility in a 3d mag? What benefits would it bring me if any? Lastly, what driver would be ideal for this setup?
I have seen the “My $2.24 triple emitter Mag Mod” thread and while cheap its not what I am looking for. If anyone knows of a thread that deal with cheap single emitter 3d mag upgrades I am interested. I am not interested in changing from alkaline primary batteries for this build.
All comments, hints, jokes, and constructive criticism welcome!
What you want to do is definitely doable. I have a 3D Mag, with 3 Imedion LowSelfDischarge NiMH cells. I’m running an Elektrolumens 3x XM-L2 U2 drop-in direct drive for some 10A off those cells. So I don’t see why what you want to do would cause any problems. I’m also running an MT-G2 off 2 18650’s on 3 ounces of copper, pulling 6A. Again, I don’t see a problem with your plan.
Make your “puck” from copper to fit snugly into the Mag tube. Drill your wire holes and hook the existing switch through the puck to a copper Noctigon with your chosen emitter. If you can drill and tap a diagonal hole so that you can thread a set screw into the side of the tube for a positive ground and to lock the puck in place, it’ll be pretty easy to set the puck in the right position to enable you to focus the reflector on the die. Might take some trial and error, but it won’t be all that difficult nor expensive.
Cut the tube part off the reflector, such that the tapered end of the reflector protrudes slightly from your cut. This way you are not messing with the reflective area at all. The switch can be pulled out and modified through the button, turn the switch on, pinch the rubber boot and pull it out of the body. Then using a T8 star driver (you might have to sand it down as many/most are too thick to slide into the hole in the button) insert it through the button and loosen the set screw in the switch. This is what holds the switch in the body and makes ground. You can cut off the tower and solder wires to the existing tabs to send to your emitter. You should be able to figure the rest out, trial and error. If you mess up a reflector, me or Old-Lumens probably have plenty around to give you a new one.
There will be no extended run time with Alkaline Primaries. That is why the LED Maglites you can buy are dim. Low power, to last on Alkalines. If you wish to stay with primaries, then do not do the mod.
Not trying to be an ass, but it's reality. It's NiMHs or Li-ion, or just use a stock maglite.
That said, If your copper heat sink that you make yourself, is tight, (as in press in tight), to the body tube of the Maglite, then it has to be no more than about 2-3mm thick. If it's press fit tight, it will carry the heat to the body of the light and that's good enough for 2 amps.
A simple http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S020064 6x7135 driver would give 2.28 amps. It would work with the stock switch. There are lots of threads showing that and I think I have a video of modding the stock switch, but I can give links if you can't find them in the forums.
As OL said, alkaline can’t handle the high current you want. Really, 0.5 to 1 Amp max here. At .5 amp the Alkaline D cell will deliver about 10-12 amp hour. At 1 amp it will be 5-6 Ah plus the voltage sag from high internal resistance.
Ni-MH is no problem for D or AA cells to deliver 2 amps.
Here’s some data from ‘the other site’ that spells this out:
Thank you for the quick and knowledgeable response! I really appreciate the extra details. To reiterate I am interested in maintaining alkaline primaries as the battery of choice. At least until I plow through my supply of d batteries… I will admit those Imedions are on the wish list now. They are 1.2v vs the 1.5 of a primary. I assume they would be considerably better at holding voltage under load.
I am considering a copper post on top of the puck with a ridge that would allow me to maintain some kind of ability to focus. Probably not worth the effort but it was a thought. I have my light fully disassembled and will be ordering parts next week. I been watching old-lumens videos and learning a great deal from him. I plan to use his pencil trick on the light and perhaps the human lathe method for some flashbling but only after the build is done.
I guess my biggest question now is what driver should I be using for this? I obviously need one that works with 3x3d alkaline 4.5v and it would be great if it would also work with the rechargeable Imedions 3x3d NiMH 3.6v. I believe the output needs to be over the leds Vf if I understand correctly…? In this case it needs to be 3.25v +? overhead?
I thought that was the case. If I have to use rechargeable batteries it will probably alter what I want to do for the build. I have eyed up 9/12 AAtoD adapters but they are so expensive. I may just grab NiMH D cells and build as envisioned here. I saw someone running a 4d with alkaline with great results was hoping I could manage on 3. For the life of me I can’t find that thread.
I will give everyone’s input much thought. Thank you all for the insights.
What charger would you guys suggest for NiHM d cells? I gather that quality is important for a charger so don’t let price limit you.
Alternatively are the eneloop chargers that come in the blister packs with the batteries decent quality with proper options? Would I be better off getting a 3rd party charger if I went with eneloops?
Thanks for the welcome OL, they should call you wise-lumens!
Thank you for the link LowLumen, very enlightening!
Maha by Powerex, found many places but I use Thomas Distributing. I have one in AA and AAA (C801D) format and another that charges from AAA to D (C808M). They’re excellent chargers. Not cheap. Excellent.
C808M This one handles all your rechargeable NiMH and NiCd cells.
MAHA is good and so is Tenergy. MAHA at thomasdistributing and Tenregy from all-battery. They both offer D cell chargers. I would recommend a "smart charger" that has more monitoring of the cells.
If I wanted just a nice 3D LED Maglite, I would use an XM-L T6 3C led (on 20mm star), on a thin, (2-3mm thick), press fit heat sink and a 6x7135 linear driver, (various places carry them) and use the stock reflector after it has been modded by removing bottom section. Take the switch out and remove the post off it and wire from the switch to the driver and from the driver to the led. Glass lenses can be gotten from kaidomain and I think some other sellers like DX. 50mm lens. 3X D NiMH cells and you're off and running.
Till the bug gets you bad and you want more and more and more.........
This works, as long as you stick to only alkalines. Direct drive it runs at 1.8-1.9 amps. The little faux bulb thing does get hot but not enough to melt the solder or stock plastic tower or damage the LED. Use a XML2 as they have a higher Vf, so the current will be self-limiting because of the balance between the Vf and the alkalines' voltage sag under load.
I can testify to O-L’s statement. The one about the bug thing. I just this morning modified my Elektrolumens Triple XM-L2 with a home made brass positive connection terminal to allow direct drive on a Moli or Powerizer to reach new heights. All resistance has been addressed throughout the Mag 1D body.
The Powerizer is now allowing 10.13A for 2698 OTF lumens at start-up, with 1839 OTF at 30 seconds
The Moli is now allowing 8.6A for 2305 OTF lumens at start-up, with 2042 OTF at 30 seconds
Who said “More”?
This light was originally built by JayRob in CPF, the finned head was made by ChicagoX, and the triple XM-L2 was made by Elektrolumens, with every possible tweak and mod to the remaining stock parts by moi.
That is EXACTLY what I had in mind!!! Just sliding a copper post down into the already existing fixture. Do you know what kind of run time a 3d mag gets with this setup? Does the output lower dramatically in the first 15-30 minutes? Could I get the dimensions for that pill? Do you have to alter the reflector with this setup?
@DBCstm
That AAA to D (C808M) looks sweet. After reading the information at the link I still don’t know if its a “smart” charger or not? NICE triple XML2 you got there! *wipes drool from chin
@Everyone
Yes I have the bug already… I have a list of lights I would like to build that only you guys could understand, lol. I have been stalking this forum and others for months and can’t wait to do my first mod. I purchased a 3 dollar 18650 light from amazon a few months ago and it just shredded the $30 dollar lights my friends and family had. Then an 8 dollar C8 that put the 3 dollar aspherical to shame. That was the catalyst for my spiral into drool soaked keyboards while ogling custom lights.
The learning curve is kinda steep if you start out with no knowledge of electronics, electricity, or optics. I just now feel confident enough to start a project and I want to keep it simple thus this idea was born. I may very well go nuts with this mag host later but for now if I can throw an XML2 on copper inside it and run it on alks I will be very pleased. This place is awesome, you guys are super helpful and very knowledgeable. I am happy to be here! Now if I could only afford a lathe…
The copper replica pill thing is just various sizes of copper tubing from the hardware store soldered together. The main body is 1/2" OD (that's the measurement, not the tube/pipe size on the label), the lower ring is a short piece of tube slit vertically into a 'C', expanded, slipped over the outside and soldered. Use the original pill as a template and copy it. Reflector remains untouched and the cam/focusing stays exactly like stock.
As for runtime I haven't measured it, but you can work it out roughly. The stock XP-E pill runs at around 630mA at 4v, 200mA at 3v. Substitute the new XML2/direct drive current and there's your theoretical runtime. Being direct drive, the current/light output will decrease as the battery voltage drops, but even with D cells down at 1v each it will still be brighter than the stock XP-E.
Just wondering, in theory, could one solder a bunch of copper braids to the bottom of the pill and run those to a contact ring against the inside of the flashlight body to dissipate heat?
