A01 / 219B tint question

Zulumoose · 2018-03-09T06:37:25.000Z

I have two supposedly identically performing Astrolux A01 lights, one being the normal aluminium one in grey, the other is the BLF copper edition.
I was expecting both to have a nice neutral high CRI beam.
Comparing them to other lights I have, such as a BLF A6 in 3D tint and a Convoy C8 with 1A tint I find the following.

The aluminium one is almost as cool as the 1A convoy, and washes out colours.
The copper one has a very brown/orange tint, much warmer than the 3D BLF A6 and does not show colours well.

Side by side against a white wall (sorry I don’t have a camera that will show this) one is blinding white, one is orange/brown.
What is likely to have gone wrong here? Their specs do not show a tint bin, but shouldn’t they both be identical and close to a neutral tint, similar to my 3D A6, which to my mind has a perfect tint?

Specs off the Banggood site here, as linked to from my orders page.

mrheosuper · 2018-03-09T06:48:25.000Z

i remember that A01 uses nichia 219C, not 219B
and the cooper version, not sure which led it uses
but to me, 219B has a nicer tint than 219c. maybe because you are use to cool light so when seeing warm light, you will see that too yellow/orange

Zulumoose · 2018-03-09T06:53:31.000Z

If you look at the specs I posted, both of them show 219B AND 219C, so I don’t even know what it is supposed to have, never mind what the tints are supposed to be.

mrheosuper · 2018-03-09T07:16:27.000Z

maybe i was wrong then

jon_slider · 2018-03-10T01:18:05.000Z

Zulumoose:

What is likely to have gone wrong here?

The Astrolux A01 changed when they stopped using Manker drivers
The BLF Copper version afaik does use the Manker driver.

the non manker driver has next mode memory, that the Manker driver does not

as far as the tint of your A6, thats a totally different LED, and is not high CRI
and yes, the Astrolux A01 LED changed to a higher color temperature when they stopped working with Manker. The Copper BLF has the lower color temperature LED that Manker uses

this post will give you a lot more info

AstroLux A01 AAA Nichia 219B Review - Winner winner, chicken dinner. An excellent, Neutral tint High CRI LED keychain light! 1 x AAA Flashlights

I got a few of each (2-3pcs each kind) of the Astrolux A01 / CPF Italia A01 / BLF A01 copper during BG’s Christmas sale, which just arrived recently. All of them definitely use the Nichia 219B LED (none of them used 219C). But other than that similarity, there are differences: 1) driver: The Astrolux A01 aluminum uses a non-Manker driver, and has PWM (tested using digital camera and also shining light through rotating fan blades of a small portable fan — PWM shows as some kind of pattern). I…

ReManG:

you wont be able to see the manker label on the LED side of the driver unless you take the light apart, but this is what it looks like from the other side, that you should be able to compare to your two lights

Andyman:

here is a pic showing a manker driver on a copper BLF

the two on the right have the new Astrolux A01, w non Manker driver, and uses PWM and a 5000k LED, and has NextModeMemory(NMM)
the older Manker driver is NoPWM and has a 4000k LED, an no NMM

Basically the new Astrolux A01 is not the same, and not as good.

the printed material does not always get updated when something changes, so you are more likely to get accurate info by comparing the lights in hand, than the description

Here you will find pics of the N219 A, B and C
this is what a 219b looks like in a BLF copper

this is a 219c

here an 219a on left and 219b on right

Barkuti · 2018-03-10T02:56:48.000Z

Zulumoose:

… one is blinding white, one is orange/brown.

What is likely to have gone wrong here? Their specs do not show a tint bin, but shouldn’t they both be identical and close to a neutral tint, similar to my 3D A6, which to my mind has a perfect tint?

…

Blinding white? Orange/brown?

Biased perceptions (we're all biased of course). The cool white XP-L HI in my modified T20T may also look “much whiter” than a comparatively yellowish 219C inside a USB rechargeable torch side by side, yet in practice and to my eyes/mind the colour appreciation is vastly superior with the 219C, so much that the T20T's output remembers me of B/W monochrome monitors. :facepalm:

Throughout the day the sun's spectral power distribution and corresponding light temperature varies. I've yet to hear a complaint about the sun's “tint” because of its “perfect” colour rendering performance. It's colour rendering performance is bound to our minds and corresponding visual organs' morphologies (see: Photoreceptor cell @ Wikipedia). If we could re-program our minds with ease it would be possible to “rewire” ourselves in a way that the crappy led of choice's light output would look “perfect” to us, but in doing so standard (sun/stars, blackbody radiators) light sources would start looking “crappy” to us also.

What the @#$% was I saying? Aaah! Please send me all of those yellow/orange/brown high-CRI emitters you don't like, thanks. Let me give 'em a good home. :-D

3D a perfect tint? A perfect tint is probably provided by colour emitters like red/green/blue XP-E2s, if you know what I mean (and :-D I believe you do).

By the way, you say current A01s come with a PWM driver (@#$%!) with next mode memory (@#$%!) AND on top of this comes equipped with an also-ran emitter? This is completely misleading, straight false advertising!

Banggood is calling for a spank!

Cheers ^:)

jon_slider · 2018-03-10T03:33:19.000Z

Barkuti:

Banggood is calling for a spank!

since 2016
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?424055

10-03-2016

[QUOTE=5370H55V;4976153]So are there different versions of the A01?
I ordered 3 A01’s roughly a month ago (one copper and 2 alu) and bought another two aluminum ones on sale 5 days later. The first order arrived 2 weeks ago while the other one was backordered due to the sale. I finally received the second order today and noticed several differences.
First, the tint of both of the new aluminum ones were much cooler than warm yellowish glow from the copper and previous A01’s. They appear to be much brighter than the old light, even when batteries were swapped back and forth in the comparison. The battery contacts are very different as well, with my older version having 3 solder blobs and MANKER written on the PCB while the newer version has a larger positive pad and a green colored ring. Previous reviews of the light also had a foam disk there, which is missing from all my A01’s. And the most interesting thing is the newer versions appear to have memory, where the light turns on in the mode AFTER the one it was turned off at. I’ve verified this by turning the light off in Medium mode and having it turn on in High and then Strobe after 10 minutes. Anyone else notice these changes in their newer A01’s (ordered after Sept 2016-ish)?
[/QUOTE]

Zulumoose · 2018-03-10T10:24:10.000Z

Thanx for the informative posts guys, will look through carefully when I have the time. Looks like the anomaly has an explanation though, good stuff!

BTW of course I realise my descriptions are completely subjective, I have only my own perceptions to go on here, no means of measuring anything, and I do not fully understand how CRI and tint can be independant of each other, but that is a topic for another thread.

jon_slider · 2018-03-10T21:52:21.000Z

> I do not fully understand how CRI and tint can be independent of each other

tint, CRI, and Color Temperature are each separate criteria. It is a broad topic, here are some cliff notes:

CRI= Color Rendering Index
tint= in maukka’s tint charts below, Yellow and Green Tint are above the black line
CCT= Color Temperature = how warm or cool the light is. Incandescent bulbs produce light at around 3000 degrees Kelvin (CCT). Noon Sun is about 5500K. A candle is around 2000 Kelvin

maukka has some of the most informative images regarding tint, cri and color temperature

Look at his post about the Astrolux A01

maukka:

Tint:

CRI and CCT

===
Lets compare to his measurements of the Astrolux S1 aka BLF A6

maukka:

CRI and CCT

Tint

The BLF A6 has a Color temperature of 4630 and a CRI (Ra) of 71
The Astrolux A01 has a Color temperature of 3960 and a CRI (Ra) of 90

The tint of the A01 is less green, and closer to the BBL than the tint of the A6
The A01 has higher CRI, more red output, than the A6

for a simple way to compare CRI, shine each light at the palm of your hand. The Higher CRI light will show more pink tones, the lower CRI will tend to look less pink and less alive.

When I compare CRI I use a Red object. A high CRI beam will show more red. A low CRI beam will make the red look more brownish, less red.

some hand comparisons for different LEDs with different CRI values

Phlogiston · 2018-03-10T21:44:47.000Z

jon_slider:

The Astrolux A01 has a Color temperature of 4630 and a CRI (Ra) of 71
The BLF A6 has a Color temperature of 3960 and a CRI (Ra) of 90

I think you might have the A01 and A6 switched about here?

jon_slider · 2018-03-10T21:59:13.000Z

Phlogiston:

I think you might have the A01 and A6 switched about here?

Thanks! edited the post

for Zulumoose, a couple more of maukka’s pics
note how much greener the A6 beam is

maukka:

than the A01

maukka:

note: maukka has the A01 with the Manker driver, not the version shipping now, that has a cooler LED and NMM

Zulumoose · 2018-03-12T07:48:07.000Z

thanx for the info. I will have to do some more investigation, haven’t had much time the last few days for the forum.
I really don’t understand how tint, colour temperature, and CRI are separated from each other. I have a sort of an idea how CRI can be different, but it is fuzzy and needs a good explanation in layman’s terms so that the concepts get across. I’m sure someone with a photography background, for e.g., would have no difficulty.

It reminds me of how I battled as a teenager to understand how power and torque were interrelated but different. It is crystal clear to me now, but then, no explanation I read addressed the difficulties I had with it. If I could go back in time and explain it to my younger self I would get it in minutes.