Any info on this FJ33 EDC?

waynestractor · 2019-02-25T04:52:34.000Z

Adhara:

saypat:

Yea, that FJ33 looks very interesting!

And sure would like a couple of those Artifacts

They are neat and beautiful, I have a few (not for sale). There is one available used from a Russian collector at $1200 (correctly priced for a used one). If that floats your boat, PM or post, I’ll try and find the link in my browsing history (I ran across it a couple of days ago).

What were the FJ33’s going for new?

AEDe · 2019-02-25T05:03:37.000Z

Even if “Fj33” would be made (the first info about this project was in 2013-2014) the price can be for sure 500+$ , 700$ is even more real.

waynestractor · 2019-02-25T05:07:50.000Z

Adhara:

waynestractor:

Adhara:

saypat:

Yea, that FJ33 looks very interesting!

And sure would like a couple of those Artifacts

They are neat and beautiful, I have a few (not for sale). There is one available used from a Russian collector at $1200 (correctly priced for a used one). If that floats your boat, PM or post, I’ll try and find the link in my browsing history (I ran across it a couple of days ago).

What were the FJ33’s going for new?

They are not available yet. I was replying to the Minion Artifact comment.
I would expect the FJ33 to be a bit more than the FL33 series, so you’re likely looking at a four-figure ($1000+) light.
Lux-RC is not a budget company.

My bad, it is the FL33 I am looking at. Seller is asking $450usd+.

waynestractor · 2019-02-25T05:32:44.000Z

Adhara:

waynestractor:

Adhara:

waynestractor:

Adhara:

saypat:

Yea, that FJ33 looks very interesting!

And sure would like a couple of those Artifacts

They are neat and beautiful, I have a few (not for sale). There is one available used from a Russian collector at $1200 (correctly priced for a used one). If that floats your boat, PM or post, I’ll try and find the link in my browsing history (I ran across it a couple of days ago).

What were the FJ33’s going for new?

They are not available yet. I was replying to the Minion Artifact comment.
I would expect the FJ33 to be a bit more than the FL33 series, so you’re likely looking at a four-figure ($1000+) light.
Lux-RC is not a budget company.

My bad, it is the FL33 I am looking at.

Ah, in that case, those come up for sale rarely, go from $500 for a used shorty in plain finish with obvious carry wear&tear, to $1500 for a used but perfect twin-cell in a desirable finish.

The one I am looking at is a mint condition unit with TiCN finish, from the original purchaser. Twin cell or single 18650.

AlexGT · 2019-02-25T05:33:43.000Z

I wouldn’t pay that much for a flashlight…! Out of my price range

Nice lights though

saypat · 2019-02-25T05:58:59.000Z

appreciate the added inside information, it made things easy for me as I wanted to buy several lights. Not any more

Agro · 2019-02-25T10:37:31.000Z

1000 lm OTF with 5.6 watt is 179 lm/W with triple XP-L HD. Lux-RC is good but it just doesn’t seem possible. That’s the efficiency of bare XP-L V6, no optical and no driver losses.
He may use XP-L W2 to get some small improvement (~4%) but that’s by far not enough to cover the losses.

EDIT:
My mistake, that’s the level of XP-L V5.
So he can get nearly 8% by using W2. That’s really close to being believable, if he got a LED batch significantly better than average and furthermore tuned the system to the max (significantly better than he’s done before) he might just do it. But I’m still sceptical.

Agro · 2019-02-25T10:43:20.000Z

Also, what he says about FET lights is plainly and simply incorrect when it comes to BLF-related FET drivers.
They are surely not efficiency queens but while PWMing they don’t hammer the LED on-off-on-off at maximum current but smooth it out somewhat.

kiriba-ru · 2019-02-25T12:10:46.000Z

Agro:

Also, what he says about FET lights is plainly and simply incorrect when it comes to BLF-related FET drivers.
They are surely not efficiency queens but while PWMing they don’t hammer the LED on-off-on-off at maximum current but smooth it out somewhat.

They do as any other FETs.
Arguing with LUX`s conclutions cannt be reasonable until you have same amount and quality measurement tools in your lab.

Agro · 2019-02-25T12:34:17.000Z

kiriba-ru:

They do as any other FETs.

No, they don’t:

TK's Emisar D4 review 18650 Flashlights

Here’s some scope shots of the output. Measured optically OTF. Most of them links not to clutter the thread too much. Used a slightly discharged 18650GA and there probably was some throttling going on. First on the 7135: Moon [image] A bit above moon A bit more Almost there 71350 100% [image] Changing ranges: Flashlight off [image] 7135 100% for reference [image] Just a bit above Just as specified, the higher range cycles between 7135 100% level and up. Getting brighter [image] …

FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight - SST-20 available, coupon codes public BLF Special Edition Products

I think it may be caused by a small resistor in the circuit which is specifically designed to take the edge off each FET pulse. This was done to prevent excess voltage spikes and electrical noise within the driver, but it also seems to have the effect of increasing FET efficiency slightly.

kiriba-ru:

Arguing with LUX`s conclutions cannt be reasonable until you have same amount and quality measurement tools in your lab.

I seriously doubt his calculator is better than mine.

Yes, I won’t be able to measure whether his results are true or not. But I can calculate that they are doubtworthy - and that’s what I did.

kiriba-ru · 2019-02-25T13:50:23.000Z

What do do you refer to? Common blf driver is equipped with 1x7135 (0.35A) and many low Vf leds in combination with high-amp cell (8+ Amps). For sure 1x7135 makes sense if you test 10% fet+7135 mod. But if your led can not carry your max current (black flat), you can not just limit fet pwm and dont worry about les lifetime. It will die as fast as with any other fet driver.
He get the results with measurements. You can calculate results but how do you estimate better glass, or custom optics, or custom led dome improvements?

Agro · 2019-02-25T14:13:54.000Z

I’m refering specifically to:

Lux-RC:

If you own a PWM light (high or standard freq., no matter in this case) it always runs at full output in all modes. In 250LM mode instead of constant lighting it generates short pulses. CREE XP-L V6 at 3 Amp 60°C produces 1152 lumens (constant current mode) which is translated into 288 lumen average with 25% PMW fill. But, if you’re driving the same LED with a constant 750mA current (which is 25% of 3 Amp), the same LED produces 381 lumens! It’s nearly 100 lumen above the 288 lumens provided with the PWM. This remarkable difference is provided by the fact that LED efficiency is getting much better at a lower current. Short high-current pulses waste a significant part of electrical power on useless heating.

This omits FET+1 and FET+N+1 drivers. Which are not efficiency queens either but are significantly better in their regulated modes than he states. In this regard - it is misleading but it is not incorrect.

However it is incorrect w.r.t. higher, FET-only modes of BLF-related drivers.

As maukka’s scope shows, in PWM mode current is lower than with FET wide open. That’s because something (which TK expects to be a resistor) slows down current rise and fall, reducing peak height.
Yes, FET, FET+1, FET+N+1 drivers are not really efficient. But not as bad as he stated.

Sure, a FET driver can kill a LED. We’ve had such failures even in production lights. That’s not what I referred to though.

kiriba-ru · 2019-02-25T14:20:20.000Z

Did maukka tested 8+ Amps 100% pwm+1 mod?
Did maukka tested any leds after hard fet usage (I mean regular maukka color test, new 80 cri xpl vs used at 6-7Amps xpl) ?
Also, I dont think output voltage from light meter is proper value to measure (for this discussion). Led have some delay but sensor also have some delay.

Agro · 2019-02-25T15:28:06.000Z

kiriba-ru:

Did maukka tested 8+ Amps 100% pwm+1 mod?

D4 is 8A. Or maybe you mean 8A/LED?….

kiriba-ru:

Did maukka tested any leds after hard fet usage (I mean regular maukka color test, new 80 cri xpl vs used at 6-7Amps xpl) ?

Would be an interesting test.

kiriba-ru:

Also, I dont think output voltage from light meter is proper value to measure (for this discussion). Led have some delay but sensor also have some delay.

Now… that’s a really good question. Now I also have my doubts about maukka’s result. Some people who are more knowledgable than myself have validated them so I still view them as “rather true than not” but I’m no longer sure about them.
Therefore my statements that Lux-RC was incorrent in saying that FETs always run LEDs at full power are also questionable.
I’d love to some more people who know to chime in….

Also I’d like to clarify one thing. I’m not claiming that FET based drivers are particularly good.
I think that when used correctly they are a fair compromise between price and quality. Heavily leaning to the “price” side.
When used incorrectly they are terrible, I surely think so.

FET drivers are a quite polarizing topic. Many despise them. Many love them, some don’t even want to read about regulation. Myself I’m between.

On many occations I reject some statements from the first camp:

that PWM means flickering
that they are super-inefficient
- yes, I will stop using one argument until I see more evidence on the topic
- but people speaking about inefficiency tend to ignore FET+1 and FET+N+1 which are significantly better than FET alone. And often better than PWMing 7135s.
that FETs kill LEDs
- they do…but only when used wrong

I reject claims from the other group as well:

that this is the only option with good power density
- Led4Power shows this is wrong
that nothing else will drive LED X strong enough
- same as above
that this is the only cheap-and-powerful option
- OK, I don’t straight reject it - but I question it. FET-based linear drivers shouldn’t cost much more if not for the lack of competition.

ADDED:
And I’d like to also note that I’m a big fan of buck and boost drivers. Because efficiency tends to matter to me a lot. And I’m a big fan of FET-based linear drivers. Because they offer superb power density and regulation. And I kinda like FET+1 and FET+N+1 drivers. Because they are cheap, powerful and available. I don’t think that there’s only 1 driver type that makes sense. I dislike PWM*7135 drivers but I see uses for them as well. Primarily - I think that different lights call for different designs.

THE_dAY · 2019-02-26T02:11:00.000Z

I remember seeing a drop test video on the LuxRC FL light many years ago. These lights are beautiful but also very rugged. The light in the video took quite the abuse and kept on working.

Always wanted to try one out. Appreciate the driver effciency and design.

iamlucky13 · 2019-02-27T01:22:54.000Z

The Lux-RC lights are made in very low volumes, as far as I know, so you won’t find much information about them online.

Overready uses their 371D driver their BOSS, however, which while still a pretty exotic light, is more widely available. You can learn more about the operation of the light by looking up Overready BOSS reviews. Here for example:

ZeroAir Reviews – 1 May 17

TorchLAB BOSS 35/70 Flashlight Review

The iconic design of this Oveready BOSS (Bright Output Small Size) drew me in immediately, and I was finally able to purchase one. Click through for photos and more!

It sounds like the FJ-33 will have an even more advanced derivative of that driver.

Those Minions are really neat looking lights, although I have to admit, the performance from such a tiny light sounds too good to be true.

Agro · 2019-02-27T07:24:41.000Z

Emisar D4 is 50% brighther with 33% more emitters and the same cell. Also recent BLF boost drivers greatly exceed the performance of Minion.
So I have no troubles believing it. If anything, I find it a bit dim for the price. But it sure is a Pareto frontier in size-performance. And it’s significantly more efficient than close competitors. And packs some neat features. I would surely want one.

Agro · 2019-02-27T07:54:28.000Z

Adhara:

iamlucky13:

Those Minions are really neat looking lights, although I have to admit, the performance from such a tiny light sounds too good to be true.

It’s not, speaking as an owner of several. I’m not aware of any light, production or custom, that beats them in lm/vol.

Stock Emisar D4 is right there, within the error margin of my calculations. With Luxeon V like djozz has done it should be better. And I’m talking about mule Minions. The ones with TIR have less lm/mm³ than stock D4.
ADDED: Just calculated Darkside Nymph, Nitecore TiniVn and RovyVon Aurora. They are great but nevertheless half as bright per volume.

kiriba-ru · 2019-02-27T07:56:55.000Z

Agro, I bet between this 4 your choise is #2 or #4:

Agro · 2019-02-27T08:18:06.000Z

Wrong. The host #2 is the lightest but #3 has the best aero. At speeds that matter aero wins.

As I stated already: I’d love to have a Minon. I love a lot of what I see in Lux-RC lights. I’m not saying that D4 is a better light. But when considering specific performance metrics - the less sophisticated light actually competes. And when modded - it wins.

ADDED:
Actually you made me thinking…If I could have one - D4 or Minion which one would I prefer?
The answer might surprise you.
Probably Minion with TIR.
But that’s uneasy choice and the win is based on Minion being regulated. With it being more efficient as the second parameter that matters.
The big win for Emisar is UI and stock it matters more than any tricky gimmicks that Minion packs. That’s what made the choice hard.