Beam quality or what?

allstarchuck · 2019-02-28T16:26:00.000Z

Beam quality can mean different things to different people I suppose. The one thing that it’s hard to do much about that I would like to do something about is the look of the beam. A diffuser over the beam results in nice uniform light and I have no problem with that if I don’t want to illuminate anything more than 10 feet away.

If extreme throw is needed or wanted in a certain situation I’m happy with the beam of most lights that are capable of that kind of throw primarily because at a certain distance you don’t notice anything other than the center of the beam.

What I find most distracting if that hard outer edge of the spill when it goes from spill to abrupt darkness. It’s nice if you have a reflector that has a softer edge to the hotspot so that transition from hotspot to spill is smooth but it’s the other edge of the spill that’s more annoying.

The best way to reduce that is to just reduce the spill with a collimating lens as happens in TIR optics. You don’t usually notice that hard edge with a TIR when you are waving your flashlight around pointing it at something at night. With anything else when you do that you are distracted by that large “halo” moving around close to you as you are trying to focus on the subject.

That solution would be the “reduce spill” approach. An aspheric would be the block spill approach as would a cylinder attached to the head.

It would be nice to find a way to diffuse the area near the edge as you go from spill to abrupt cutoff. Given the way reflectors work that would be hard. At least I haven’t been able to do it yet.

I don’t hear this talked about very much…am I the only one that this bothers?

It’s better in a XP-G only because the hotspot is larger and the spill is a little less intense but with my XP-G on high at night it’s still very obvious as the spill cuts off to darkness.

You would think that you could stick a piece of diffusing film in the form of a small circle in the center of your glass lens since spill is the result of that light exiting the emitter than doesn’t hit the reflector. You wouldn’t effect the hotspot as that comes from the edges of the reflector.

I’ve tried this and it doesn’t effect the hotspot but as far as I can tell it doesn’t really effect the spill intensity much either.

Anyone else think about these things or have any solutions? I’m more interested in improvements in beam quality that lumen output once you reach the XP-G level and above.

xevious · 2019-02-28T17:19:26.000Z

About the only thing I can think of is something that might not be very plausible, or would result in beam artifacts that may bother you.

You have probably seen those flashlights with auxiliary LED’s embedded in the reflector, in a symmetric pattern. Imagine a very large reflector with a high power LED driven in the center, then smaller lower powered LED’s situated in a particular plane of the reflector with very small diffusing optics in front of them. They would point inward to some degree. Obviously there will be range considerations, only effective for a certain distance. But beyond that there should be a natural diffusing of the beam edge at longer distances, if optics are not designed for a very tight hot spot.

Here’s a crude drawing… this is just a quick mock-up, not thoroughly researched—keep that in mind.

The_Last_Katun · 2019-02-28T18:27:10.000Z

In my flashlights of “proximity” (ie I have them to see very well and close to me, say 5 meters), where I could, I mounted TIR with an angle of 120°; the light slopes towards the edge with a pleasant soft effect; clearly a hotspot is missing but I need it that way.

CREEXHP70LED · 2019-02-28T18:36:03.000Z

A little expensive maybe, and limited UI for sure, but this is one company that understands this. I am sure when my I order my Charlie (waiting for the 20% off sale) I will prefer this to my Surefire P2X and P3X lights. They use the XM-L2 emitters still I believe with a neutral tint also, instead of the more bluish PX3.

Enderman · 2019-02-28T18:33:29.000Z

A lot of the flashlights that use TIRs like the carclo optics or olight flashlights don’t have that harsh transition from spill to darkness that typical reflectors have.

CREEXHP70LED · 2019-02-28T18:39:40.000Z

Enderman:

A lot of the flashlights that use TIRs like the carclo optics or olight flashlights don’t have that harsh transition from spill to darkness that typical reflectors have.

This^ …That is the reason I have several Olights with the TIR and also the Emisar D4.

LouieAtienza · 2019-02-28T23:32:30.000Z

You would think that you could stick a piece of diffusing film in the form of a small circle in the center of your glass lens since spill is the result of that light exiting the emitter than doesn’t hit the reflector. You wouldn’t effect the hotspot as that comes from the edges of the reflector.

I’ve tried this and it doesn’t effect the hotspot but as far as I can tell it doesn’t really effect the spill intensity much either.

I think that’s only partially true as the emitter is not an infinitely small point source. So you’d have to make that center diffuser a LOT larger than you think you do.

There are hybrid reflectors - reflectors that have a TIR either molded into, or suspended in the center of, or integral with, the reflector. A textured or patterned reflector can help a little too, and many of these hybrid reflectors have a patterned surface.

mmalive · 2019-03-01T00:25:03.000Z

Normally any type of modifications to reflector, lens will result in some sort of light artifacts FOR SURE. The engineering layout, design features will help aid. BUT nothing will be perfect. Small artifacts will be present.

EasyB · 2019-03-01T01:32:56.000Z

You would think that you could stick a piece of diffusing film in the form of a small circle in the center of your glass lens since spill is the result of that light exiting the emitter than doesn’t hit the reflector. You wouldn’t effect the hotspot as that comes from the edges of the reflector.

I’ve tried this and it doesn’t effect the hotspot but as far as I can tell it doesn’t really effect the spill intensity much either.

The edge of the spill light comes from the light from the LED that is cut off by the outer part of the reflector. So you would want to diffuse the outer perimeter of the lens to affect that sharp cutoff, not the center of the lens. Not sure how much texturing of the lens would be required to get the effect you want, and this would end up affecting the beam and reducing throw some, depending on how much lens area you textured.

xevious · 2019-03-01T06:23:32.000Z

CREEXHP70LED:

https://youtu.be/sedf4FFKFi4

A little expensive maybe, and limited UI for sure, but this is one company that understands this. I am sure when my I order my Charlie (waiting for the 20% off sale) I will prefer this to my Surefire P2X and P3X lights. They use the XM-L2 emitters still I believe with a neutral tint also, instead of the more bluish PX3.

Great video, thanks. I know of Elzetta and considered them too pricey. Is there a predictable pattern to Elzetta discount sales?

Is it true that “not all TIR optics are alike”? I’ve always understood as TIR optics sacrificing lots of throw for a broader, spill with diffused hot spot (or not at all). Are there TIR optics that can throw long range but still provide some ambient spill?

Lexel · 2019-03-01T06:32:27.000Z

If you want same effect with a reflector light use frosted lens

CREEXHP70LED · 2019-03-11T19:20:52.000Z

xevious:

CREEXHP70LED:

https://youtu.be/sedf4FFKFi4

A little expensive maybe, and limited UI for sure, but this is one company that understands this. I am sure when my I order my Charlie (waiting for the 20% off sale) I will prefer this to my Surefire P2X and P3X lights. They use the XM-L2 emitters still I believe with a neutral tint also, instead of the more bluish PX3.

Great video, thanks. I know of Elzetta and considered them too pricey. Is there a predictable pattern to Elzetta discount sales?

Is it true that “not all TIR optics are alike”? I’ve always understood as TIR optics sacrificing lots of throw for a broader, spill with diffused hot spot (or not at all). Are there TIR optics that can throw long range but still provide some ambient spill?

I think they run 20% off around the 4th of July and maybe some other times as well. Optics Planet has them cheaper too, however you may have to order then wait on it. Not all TIR optics are alike, as Elzetta has 3 different TIR optics they are currently using themselves. One of them currently being used only in their limited edition lights, has a throw in-between that of the standard and flood lenses. There are different opinions on TIR optics as far as what is really considered a TIR or not, Silent Thunder Ordnance makes crazy long throwers, and they do not use reflectors.

LouieAtienza · 2019-03-11T19:37:55.000Z

xevious:

Is it true that “not all TIR optics are alike”? I’ve always understood as TIR optics sacrificing lots of throw for a broader, spill with diffused hot spot (or not at all). Are there TIR optics that can throw long range but still provide some ambient spill?

They make TIRs that can have a beam divergence as little as 4deg. emitter dependent which is also achieved with reflectors. The difference with TIRs is that what we call spill light is captured and sent forward. The TIR can control the angle of the emitted light. I’m not 100% sure as to what is “special” about Elzetta’s optics; I believe you can drop in optics from manufacturers that make TIRs with the standard standoffs?

xevious · 2019-03-15T17:13:02.000Z

Thanks, CREEXHP70LED and LouieAtienza — good info!

CREEXHP70LED · 2019-03-21T21:35:03.000Z

xevious:

Thanks, CREEXHP70LED and LouieAtienza — good info!

I am glad I could help out. Yes, I know they are not cheap. however you know the saying you get what you pay for. (I always add, unless you buy a Ford, Chevy or Dodge.)
If you do not need a tactical light then there are much better options. I own tactical and non tactical lights, and the non tactical lights are much more impressive than the tactical lights are. Until my life is on the line and I am 100% confused what to press for max output. Love those press hard press full lumen lights, for saving my brothers and I. And I love the other lights for high output fun. Like a truck or a (Nissan Nismo GTR) my current car, I no longer have a truck. Different purposes. Different results.

Spartan · 2019-03-23T06:10:44.000Z

I found this a few days ago……the step lens gives my dream floody beam.

Strong in center but gradual spread out. Great for walking since there is no sharp cutoff drawing my eyes like a ping pong ball.

Tried finding which light it is but found nothing.

LouieAtienza · 2019-03-22T22:14:04.000Z

Spartan:

I found this a few days ago……the step lens gives my dream floody beam.

Strong in center but gradual spread out. Great for walking since there is no harp cutoff drawing my eyes like a ping pong ball.

Tried finding which light it is but found nothing.

Ledil makes a 35mm dia. stepped reflector. May be other manufacturers that make smaller versions to fit an S2 style light, or one could probably cut down a step or 2 to make it fit in a light.