*CANCELLED* - [REQUEST] 4 European members to pass-around experience: Wuben TO50R

clemence · 2019-08-01T00:14:08.000Z

I REALLY like this light. It has minor yet critical flaws here and there that can easily improved by the manufacturer. It’s a very good flashlight but it has to be better for EU150. It’s not going to sell easily at that price point. I almost did a voluntarily review just because I want to share my satisfaction but my friend borrowed and use it constantly for his work.
Why don’t you just do the review yourself Mascaratum?

[Clemence]

Yokiamy · 2019-08-01T05:58:00.000Z

What Clemence said, it has to be very good for 150€, even the GT was cheaper with the groupbuy.

Did we forget where the B stands for in BLF?

djozz · 2019-08-01T07:06:32.000Z

BLF has over the (few) years of its existence become more than a refuge for a bunch of budgetlightlovers who got scared away by CPF. There is also non-budgetlight lovers now who still got scared away by CPF :party:

But seriously I think that in the meantime the majority of members did not come here via CPF, and they come here for all sorts of things, like the testing and innovation that is going on, and the BLF-specials, not just for cheap flashlights.

CRX · 2019-08-01T07:28:45.000Z

Yeah, BudgetLightForum doesn’t sound very inclusive to people who like mid to higher priced lights.
It’s a nice idea but the shipping is not so good for everyone involved to pay.

MascaratumB · 2019-08-01T08:06:28.000Z

clemence:

I REALLY like this light. It has minor yet critical flaws here and there that can easily improved by the manufacturer. It’s a very good flashlight but it has to be better for EU150. It’s not going to sell easily at that price point. I almost did a voluntarily review just because I want to share my satisfaction but my friend borrowed and use it constantly for his work.
Why don’t you just do the review yourself Mascaratum?

[Clemence]

Thanks for the input Clemence!
Actually, now that you talk about those flaws, I went to search for any review here on BLF and, strangely, there is none! Only the Feeler thread (Feeler thread / sneak preview: Wuben TO50R HC ("The Flashlight")) and the GB thread (Group Buy: Wuben TO50R HC ("The Flashlight") - 90+CRI, 2500+lm, EDC - CLOSED!) have that information. None of those who bought the flashlight did one to show what it was like and if it was worth buying “post” GB… :zipper_mouth_face:

About the price, only yesterday when asked by Nev, I had the real notion of the current price on that, because the price I had from before was from the GB and it was way below.

If Wuben sends the light for review, I will do it, and I would do it also in the pass-around experience. But that decision is not up to me. I’m not sure it they will send a flashlight that expensive for just 1 amateur reviewer like me that doesn’t even have the ability to make elaborate tests, only some photos and…a lot of text

Also, I guess their idea was to “save” some lights (money?) and putting one to pass around by different members. But this beyond my factual knowledge

Yokiamy:

What Clemence said, it has to be very good for 150€, even the GT was cheaper with the groupbuy.

Did we forget where the B stands for in BLF?

I guess we didn’t forget that Yokiamy! Perhaps the “budget” experience in this case has more to do with the shipping itself (and the work done for the review, paperwork, etc) than with the flashlight value! And I do agree with that having to pay for work is not a kind situation, specially without any kind of further “gratification”.

About the BLF GT, it was cheaper on its GB, as the GB for this TO50R was cheaper too, about a third of the MAP (current) price.

djozz:

BLF has over the (few) years of its existence become more than a refuge for a bunch of budgetlightlovers who got scared away by CPF. There is also non-budgetlight lovers now who still got scared away by CPF :party:

But seriously I think that in the meantime the majority of members did not come here via CPF, and they come here for all sorts of things, like the testing and innovation that is going on, and the BLF-specials, not just for cheap flashlights.

I guess that independently the place were we started, we all are, in some way, budget and non budget lovers! I am both, and sometimes I don’t even like it if it is for free

I’ve seen here pretty expensive lights and collections that would probably make members from other forums (I avoid talking about CPF, it doesn’t matter to me how it works, I just love BLF :heart_eyes: ) blush!

Again, maybe this experience of passing around was not so much budget in case we have to pay for shipping and get nothing in the end. It is an idea that may not fit this forum, or even that may not appropriated for this light, but it “had” to be tried. Let’s see where it ends!

CRX:

Yeah, BudgetLightForum doesn’t sound very inclusive to people who like mid to higher priced lights.
It’s a nice idea but the shipping is not so good for everyone involved to pay.

Damn, I wish I had some very expensive lights along with my Sofirn C01 and FW3A, just for the sake of having them and playing around once in a while But it doesn’t happen :zipper_mouth_face:

I will not beat the dead horse, and I will agree again, shipping is not be the best solution! I will check what Wuben says about this!

MascaratumB · 2019-08-01T08:25:49.000Z

Conditions for SHIPPING changed:

Where it was read:

The shipping fees will be supported by the members. We can agree to share/divide shipping expenses or we can bear all on our own. This will be up to the involved members. In case you are not willing to spend money on this process, please do not declare interest!!

It now is:

The shipping fees will be supported by WUBEN. Wuben proposes that members involved in the pass around will send me a photo of the shipping receipt and their PayPal account, I organize all in an unified e-mail, send it to Wuben and they refund the members through PayPal account. Still, in case you are not willing to spend money on this process and then be refunded, please do not declare interest!!

MascaratumB · 2019-08-01T08:25:25.000Z

So, one of the problematic things have changed!

Do you feel that it would be good to increase the number of days for this pass-around? Lets say from 7 to 10 days?

What would you change more?

Please bear with me that I am doing honest questions about this!
In case there are no conditions to implement this experience, I just have to communicate it to Wuben!

Lux-Perpetua · 2019-08-01T11:04:18.000Z

I really appreciate your efforts to enable BLFers joining a passaround review.

But as many others stated before, it will be hard to find reviewers if there is an imbalance between the benefit for Wuben and the reviewers.

My suggestions (to Wuben):

Offer each participant of the PA-review at least a 75% discount voucher for buying the TO50R from a European distributer or offer a free flashlight of your lower priced models.
Have the flashlight sent by a European distributor as custom fees and import taxes may apply to the first participant (= Mascaratum?).
Specify in detail at what extent you expect your reviewers to share their impressions (pictures, videos, outdoor/indoor use, basic functions or detailed view on single components). This will effectively sort out those reviewers that just tell you how amazing the TO50R is by waving it back and forth in front of the camera ("wooow...look at this grrrreat beam....isn't that cooool?")
Add something that will motivate reviewers to join the pass-around, e.g. taking these people into account for future reviews.

I have been known for being honest, unbiased and rather nitpicking in my reviews, not only highlighting the good sides but also aspects I would like to see improved. I can't abide the idea of kiss-assing the manufacturer just to get something free of charge. This will not help anyone and it will not help the manufacturer to become aware of weak points in their products. However, it seems my reputation precedes me. All "premium" brands I have asked about making a review have either chosen not to respond at all or to give me these typical "thank you for asking" answers. Well, that's fine with me. :-)

Dioda · 2019-08-01T11:11:28.000Z

This is just too much hassle, for reviewing a flashlight. I dont see any benefit for the reviewers, even with shipping hopefully covered by manufacturer. Getting five honest reviews means at least five working days total for one flashlight provided, is just bad deal in my book. Anyone jumping on this probably values his time at 1 cent per hour. I would understand a passaround perhaps with some very high end flashlight model, but their flashlight is nothing that special worth this extra treatment.

varbos · 2019-08-01T12:46:18.000Z

Not interested, sorry. I would be devoting my time and effort to generate sales for Wuben, in return for nothing. Writing advertising copy, taking photographs, going to post office, paying shipping, all with strict deadline…

Why would I do that?

Dioda · 2019-08-01T13:10:30.000Z

If they could spare five samples for European user reviews, that would be wholly different deal. But from the current perspective of Wuben expecting us to generate sales for them for free, this whole idea can be seen as pretty rude and disrespectful.

everydaysurvivalgear · 2019-08-01T13:25:50.000Z

Its not a bad idea as a community It brings us together in a sense that can actually do this and people can be trusted to share a light around? like no one steals it or sells it. That part is good.

The shipping fees kill it because you may also get caught with import tax also?

For some one who wants to starts doing reviews its an easy way to get a review out without buying a light? Generate some exposure free of cost.

SammysHP · 2019-08-01T13:34:31.000Z

Import tax is not a problem as long as the light is shipped inside the EU.

I would do a review, but only if I can keep the product.

MascaratumB · 2019-08-01T13:35:45.000Z

Lux-Perpetua:

I really appreciate your efforts to enable BLFers joining a passaround review. But as many others stated before, it will be hard to find reviewers if there is an imbalance between the benefit for Wuben and the reviewers.

Thanks and I guess it becomes more and more evident that it will be a hard thing to implement in the current conditions. Let’s see…

Lux-Perpetua:

My suggestions (to Wuben):

Offer each participant of the PA-review at least a 75% discount voucher for buying the TO50R from a European distributer or offer a free flashlight of your lower priced models.

That would be a good offer in case Wuben accepted and in case the “involved members” feel motivated by that .

Lux-Perpetua:

Have the flashlight sent by a European distributor as custom fees and import taxes may apply to the first participant (= Mascaratum?).

I am not sure if they have any official store/storage in Europe. I found that selected-lights.de sells them , but it’s probably not an official “store” .

Depending on the shipping declaration, I may or may not have to pay something for the light. It wouldn’t be the first time, though, happened with Amutorch AM30 and others :zipper_mouth_face:

Lux-Perpetua:

Specify in detail at what extent you expect your reviewers to share their impressions (pictures, videos, outdoor/indoor use, basic functions or detailed view on single components). This will effectively sort out those reviewers that just tell you how amazing the TO50R is by waving it back and forth in front of the camera (“wooow…look at this grrrreat beam….isn’t that cooool?”)

This would be an important point just to avoid those “it’s very good” or “it’s worthless”! However, we all have different styles and resources to do the reviews, so I guess that would also be taken into account!

Lux-Perpetua:

Add something that will motivate reviewers to join the pass-around, e.g. taking these people into account for future reviews.

This was not discussed but I guess that with honest and well-structured reviews, Wuben would trust the members to enter future initiatives. But would be a nice “plus” and somehow a “reward” for the future too!

Lux-Perpetua:

I have been known for being honest, unbiased and rather nitpicking in my reviews, not only highlighting the good sides but also aspects I would like to see improved. I can’t abide the idea of kiss-assing the manufacturer just to get something free of charge. This will not help anyone and it will not help the manufacturer to become aware of weak points in their products. However, it seems my reputation precedes me. All “premium” brands I have asked about making a review have either chosen not to respond at all or to give me these typical “thank you for asking” answers. Well, that’s fine with me.

I’m with you on this! The community doesn’t benefit in nothing with fake reviews and complying with MFR expectations. I don’t think that Wuben wants that kind of attitude from the reviewers, and also they listen to what community has to say. The TO50R and the TLF version of the Wuben E05 are some examples of it!

Dioda:

This is just too much hassle, for reviewing a flashlight. I dont see any benefit for the reviewers, even with shipping hopefully covered by manufacturer. Getting five honest reviews means at least five working days total for one flashlight provided, is just bad deal in my book. Anyone jumping on this probably values his time at 1 cent per hour. I would understand a passaround perhaps with some very high end flashlight model, but their flashlight is nothing that special worth this extra treatment.

That idea was pointed out before, the pass-around in high-end/custom/prototype flashlights! I believe that this is an established model, it was worked out with some input from the community too. Not having one or not having had one, I cannot say of the price or the time invested to review it are worthy or not, but I do believe that it may have some value.
And I guess the “extra treatment” was more an idea to make a “funny” thing involving members of the community. Perhaps it was not the best way, but, in case this doesn’t advance any further, I hope we can learn from my bad example of “how to organize a pass-around experience!”.

varbos:

Not interested, sorry. I would be devoting my time and effort to generate sales for Wuben, in return for nothing. Writing advertising copy, taking photographs, going to post office, paying shipping, all with strict deadline…

Why would I do that?

I won’t beat the dead horse again, but in the line of what I and other members mentioned/exposed above, you are right!

And you all are right to feel this way, so I cannot say much more from this. I guess that if I was “in your shoes” I would probably feel the same, but sometimes enthusiasm is blinding and we enter rough ways…

Dioda:

If they could spare five samples for European user reviews, that would be wholly different deal. But from the current perspective of Wuben expecting us to generate sales for them for free, this whole idea can be seen as pretty rude and disrespectful.

I wouldn’t go that further, although it may lead to think like that, yes. I am not sure if sending 750€ in lights for reviews (+ shipping) would be a better option in terms or profits, but I cannot speak for Wuben on that!
All sellers sending flashlights for reviews expect increase in sales. The major difference is that normally reviewers keep the lights for themselves and this is not the case.

everydaysurvivalgear:

Its not a bad idea as a community It brings us together in a sense that can actually do this and people can be trusted to share a light around? like no one steals it or sells it. That part is good.

The shipping fees kill it because you may also get caught with import tax also?

For some one who wants to starts doing reviews its an easy way to get a review out without buying a light? Generate some exposure free of cost.

Yup, that would be a good thing to have, a sense of community and commitment, but maybe the other aspects are weighting more than this, and its understandable.
About import fees, I am not sure if others members would have to pay it. Within European Union, shipping may be high but I guess the receivers don’t need to pay for importation. I don’t know about other no EU countries, though.
If there would be someone that would (eventually) need to pay for importation, that would be me as first receiver!

For “starters” yes, would be a good opportunity but, again, that might leave a “bad taste in mouth” once they wouldn’t keep the light and they still would need to pay to ship it outwards.

I believe that maybe this experience would be easier to do in big countries with more members to share the light without paying too much. But among different countries and different national rules/fees this may become too much complicated :zipper_mouth_face:

I will pick some of the suggestions above and send e-mail to Wuben to see what they proposes, in case they really want to keep this pass-around idea.

I will be the messenger, so don’t “kill me”…

Yokiamy · 2019-08-01T13:37:08.000Z

Shipping solved i.m.h.o.

But there has to be some sort of advantage for the reviewer.

Which company expects that someone does something for their benefit for free?

I admit it’s a hobby, but some sort of reward would be nice.

Usually, a reviewer already spends much of his spare time.

MascaratumB · 2019-08-01T13:37:51.000Z

SammysHP:

Import tax is not a problem as long as the light is shipped inside the EU.

I would do a review, but only if I can keep the product.

Within EU is not the issue (for receivers, maybe for senders only), but Europe is not only EU and members from those countries might enter as well.
As I said above, I will send message to Wuben and see if they want to keep this idea, adding or not some benefits or if they want to cancel it…

MascaratumB · 2019-08-01T13:39:40.000Z

Yokiamy:

Shipping solved i.m.h.o.

But there has to be some sort of advantage for the reviewer.

Which company expects that someone does something for their benefit for free?

I admit it’s a hobby, but some sort of reward would be nice.

Usually, a reviewer already spends much of his spare time.

That’s noted down, I will see what can be changed!

Maybe this thread becomes an example for future initiatives, after all.

BTW, has anyone here been in a pass-around experience before? Just as curiosity!!

Yokiamy · 2019-08-01T13:46:47.000Z

MascaratumB:

has anyone here been in a pass-around experience before? Just as curiosity!!

No, but i like the idea!
It adds value to the BLF spirit!

MascaratumB · 2019-08-01T14:13:47.000Z

Yokiamy:

MascaratumB:

has anyone here been in a pass-around experience before? Just as curiosity!!

No, but i like the idea!
It adds value to the BLF spirit!

Indeed! Just need to make it budget and gratifying to enter the spirit

PM sent to Wuben exposing the points addressed here and looking for some hints on what can be done to eventually overcome this and implement the pass-around!
Will post more when I have a reply!
Meanwhile I will finish a review from a light I bought and for which I took around 140 photos

Lightbringer · 2019-08-01T14:42:23.000Z

MascaratumB:

BTW, has anyone here been in a pass-around experience before? Just as curiosity!!

I never heard of any such thing.

Maybe things like car reviews. Obviously you don’t get to keep the car, but at least drive it around for a week or two (ie, gain benefit from it), and in every case I can think of, get paid to review it (as in, it’s the reviewer’s job).

Now if anyone wants me to review a cute cheerleader or something…