Congestion Pricing in NYC

The taxis are not exempt in the USA because they’re privately owned.

During rush times (5:30-9:30am and 3:00-7:00pm) there has been volume-based “dynamic” pricing on the toll highway (within the beltway) leading into Washington, DC from the west for several years. There is no maximum toll limit. The HOV lanes are toll-free during those times for vehicles with three or more people.

I can absolutely see someone paying the $9 to take his family to the theater but damn, not people going to work. Why would there be a penalty for working.

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NYC has been heavily congested on a regular basis for many decades, so congestion is not exactly a new problem.
Luckily, Americans are free to live in America practically anywhere they can afford.
If someone in an area no longer likes that area, they should vote with their wallet and move. :slightly_smiling_face:
I know it’s not easy (or fun) to move, but what better choice is there? :thinking:

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At a prior work location the best route to the office was primarily along a toll road with two plazas while the best return route was along a different toll road with three plazas. 35 minutes in the morning, 45 minutes in the afternoon.

I could of course have avoided tolls entirely had I wished to pay a considerable time penalty using alternate highways- 55+ minutes in the morning and 75 minutes in the afternoon. Surface streets would have been an additional 30 minutes atop either time.

I do not recall what the semi-dynamic tolls were at the time as I’ve long had an RFID tag that auto-bills periodically, but $2 a hit would be about right so I was probably paying $10 a day in tolls as I valued my time more than the money.

Of course some of this is local governments manipulating the choice domain:

  • For the last ~20 years:
    • Nearly all highway additions have been toll roads
    • All highway expansion has been intra-highway gucci lines
      I-635 Express is the most egregious - it can go >$20 per ~2 mile segment
  • Surface streets are badly engineered:
    • Bad light timing disrupts flow Because Reasons™, probably to encourage through-traffic to take highways
    • Signals that should not exist are installed for minor side streets whose residents demand the right to turn left during rush hour
  • Transit - when it exists at all - is more time-consuming than even bad traffic
  • DFW is abysmally poor for cycling and walking anywhere

$10 a day? Unpleasant and unaffordable for many, no doubt, but the median eastbound toll within a ten-mile stretch of the highway I mentioned is over $40 every weekday at around 8:30am, according to a 2021 study.

There IS a penalty for working. They call it a Payroll Tax.
There are perks in this country for not working as well, but as Jerry Springer used to say;
“That’s another show all together”

I’m just another Cog in the Big Wheel :slight_smile:
Thanks,

COG # 8069.2

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The payroll tax isn’t a penalty for working. It funds social insurance programs that everyone benefits from, like social security, Medicare and unemployment insurance, among others.

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Let’s do the math (and I ain’t no CPA).
Manhattan (approximations)
Avg. salary = $79,300 (gross)

Net after Fed/State/City taxes = $62,200
Parking fees (avg. based on 50 weeks commute) = $450/month = $5400/year
“Congestion toll” = $2300/year
Net take after taxes/ fees= $54,600/year

No, I’m not citing references, goggle it. I don’t live in the city and have no dog in the hunt, other than admittedly I am a resident of NYS.
Take these figures with a large grain of salt. Some folks may see that net number and think “meh, that ain’t so bad”. If it was me, trying to keep a family afloat anywhere around there on that kind of scratch, I’d be shopping for a job mucking onions somewhere in New Jersey. I’d love to say what I really think about it, but it would not be appropriate (nor probably appreciated) in this forum.

From The Daily Show, which tapes in New York:
“You won’t believe this.
New Yorkers are complaining about something.” :grin:

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I’ve generally spent fair amounts of time in London, which has a similar scheme. I was in New York last year for about 2 weeks and was mildly surprised that traffic in Manhattan was already lower than I had expected.

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To anyone who has driven in Italy, and unintentionally encroached inside a ZTL zone, this seems pretty mild, as there is no violation charge.

There, if you don’t have a permit to enter, and a plate reader captures the number, it doesn’t result in a simple toll charge, but a ticket and fine.

Which the rental car company then adds to your bill, with an additional cut for itself.

While watching a cop show this weekend there was a guy stopped because they didn’t think he had a plate. It was there but the guy had installed a remote controlled door that would drop down. He used it whenever he passed a toll area. Guess he forgot to put it back up. The cops were not amused and they said he fine was over $1000.

Got to wonder how much he could make now selling them in NYC.

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One of my bugbears with these sort of schemes is that they’re always using the “stick” for a solution rather than the “carrot”.

Improving public transport (speed, cost, availability, convenience, reliability) will solve a great deal of congestion; sure, you can have a toll for those who “must” use a vehicle, which will also impact those who have no choice due to work etc, but at least the vast majority would have the option…

I chose to live where I do currently due to transport links to London. I’m within the “zone” system, it’s still expensive to get into central London, but far faster, cheaper and less stressful than driving.

Dewd should’ve made it automatically retract after 10sec-30sec or so.


Whups, wrong person. New reply sneaked in there and I didn’t see it. :joy:

Tricks to hide license plates will land you in jail. In any state.

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NY’s subway is already world-class. I’ve experienced the ones in most major cities (London, NY, DC, Seattle, Paris - main one I haven’t that’s large is the BART). I’d rate NY’s as equal top with London’s - NY gets points for having more 24 hour coverage, while London is more comfortable and easier to use/navigate.

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As a person who has been taking trains in NYC for the past 40 years, I strongly disagree.

Criminal activity on NYC subways makes the news on a daily basis.

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Isnt that a problem in general with the us? Ive been to quite a few big cities in europe and while theyre not really my thing(dirty, too many people) i always felt safe, even in paris where i was more afraid of the police than any person on the streets. Any time ive been in a us big city i felt like my life was in danger(at least as a european). Im used to the shouting and stuff but ive never been attacked in europe and in america where ive spent much less time ive been attacked once and shouted at multiple times. Also americans are the only one i used where theres a dedicated police force for the public transport. Also, the best public transport i used is surprisingly budapest(other than the benelux countries) even if the rest of the country has horrid public transport.

The real problem is that NYC was not proactive enough with the vehicle congestion problem. There are several things they could’ve done to help mitigate it. Raising the tolls to get into the city has been spiked up significantly, to the point of being absurd. And that hasn’t stopped the flow. Is congestion pricing going to solve it? I’m not so sure. It’ll work at first, but then people will get used to it and the volume will go back up.

There are some questions that need to be answered. Mainly, what kind of vehicle is causing the most congestion? And, is this a driver that could be satisfied with alternative means of transportation?

Since there’s a huge flow of traffic from outside the city, a lot of the vehicles being people just looking for a quick way to get to a destination in the city… why not provide large parking facilities with reasonable rates? Utilize scrappy spaces on the east and west sides of the city and have convenient parking facilities with multiple entry/exit points. You come in, park your car there, and then use public transportation to move about the city. There’s a lot of traffic coming in from up north, and with some large swatches of ill used space up there, a large parking facility there with links to the subway system would be great.

What really pisses me off is when I come in through the Lincoln tunnel and have no plans to cross into the heart of Manhattan. I’ll head north along the west side, then above 60th street, I’ll cut over to get to the Queensboro (59th St.) bridge. But now? I’m going to be hit with congestion pricing as soon as I’m out of the tunnel. And that means… having to go all the way up to the GWB… which is going to experience a significant increase in traffic.

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The situation is one in which being “proactive,” or using more “carrot” (public transit) rather than “stick” in easing traffic congestion issues costs a lot more money than instituting a dynamic toll system. And in the US, we have a civic culture that doesn’t want to pay for the public transportation systems and parking lots we already have, much less pay more to fund more of them. The public light rail/subway systems in the US are chronically under-funded already. Adding public transportation capacity is going to cost a lot more that few citizens are willing to pay for at this point and in the foreseeable future.

Adding capacity to our road systems and adding public transportation capacity are very expensive compared to instituting tolls as a method to reduce traffic - and crowding, zoning laws, and the need to negotiate the purchase of the required land on which to build out road systems, piece by piece, make acquiring the necessary land on which to build more road capacity simply beyond the resources of local governments. All in all, this obviously doesn’t bode well for our ability to go where we want to go, when we want to go there. This will increasingly become a privilege of the wealthy. These problems will also increase as the sea levels rise and the current coastal areas of many countries will be under water. Due to the large numbers of people who live near these coastal areas now, many people will need to be moved to the interior (e.g., about 40% of the US population), adding to the congestion of the urban areas that still exist.

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