Convoy S21D w/ legendary Nichia 219b. Review & comparison w/ Nichia 519a, B35AM, FFL351A ROSY & other "tint-snob" LEDs. (Summary & measurements on P. 1) LATEST :+1:: Firefly E07X with VERY rosy 351A LED and Lume1 Driver.

snfx · 2023-01-19T21:27:17.000Z

stephenk:

I used the S21D for a night model photoshoot last night as I needed a diffuse beam but with more punch than a portable LED panel light. It worked very well.

S21D is so good

Erion929 · 2023-01-19T22:41:30.000Z

snfx:

stephenk:

I used the S21D for a night model photoshoot last night as I needed a diffuse beam but with more punch than a portable LED panel light. It worked very well.

S21D is so good

I might have to go to the 21D if another batch of 21F doesn’t surface near term…. :sunglasses:

DunninLA · 2023-01-20T03:06:27.000Z

It seems to me that using the S21F at 50% 5700 and 50% 2700 would give 4200K, but with less yellow and more rose dropping below the DUV line… isn’t that just about perfect for the 519a? Everyone loves 519a except for a slight yellow/gold compared to 219b. This fixes that. Simon is a genius

I would love to see beamshots of the S21F mixed 50/50 vs the S21D with 219b at 4500K or at 4000K

cannga · 2023-01-20T03:23:56.000Z

DunninLA:

It seems to me that using the S21F at 50% 5700 and 50% 2700 would give 4200K, but with less yellow and more rose dropping below the DUV line… isn’t that just about perfect for the 519a? Everyone loves 519a except for a slight yellow/gold compared to 219b. This fixes that. Simon is a genius

I would love to see beamshots of the S21F mixed 50/50 vs the S21D with 219b at 4500K or at 4000K

Interesting point. I don’t know whether it’s the average (5700+2700)/2 = 4200k, or a point in the middle of that line. I got 3700 by measuring to get the physical mid-point then eye balling the CCT at 3700. Anyone knows for certain?

Another variable I am thinking of is the 2 CCT’s might have different outputs at same current. I could test my Sofirn Lantern when I have free time tomorrow, just to have some rough idea.

But yes, Simon is a blessing for us hobbyists. Unbeatable price doesn’t hurt either.

snfx · 2023-01-20T04:14:50.000Z

I have a dual-channel d4k 2700k-5700k, it’s a bit hard to tell the temp since the lower duv makes it pink when compared to other lights.

I want to say its around the 4000k mark, give or take?

We’ll have to wait until cannga gets it on the Opplemeter lol

I also heard the 60 degree bead adds DUV according to someone on reddit. They said stick with 30 or lower for lower DUV, maybe cannga can put that to the test also?

cannga · 2023-01-20T04:38:03.000Z

clemence:

Now we know we can mix high and low CCT to position the tint above/below BBL. Once Maukka’s test out, simple math like drafted by AEDe can give use relatively close approximation.

[Clemence]

Found above in this thread [Reference] Nichia E17A/E21A (2000K - 6500K, R9050/R9080, color) CCT and tint shots

I suspect it’s just an approximation and also depends on the outputs of the 2 LEDs being mixed, say at equal current.

Yes the Duv with optics I could test. In the middle of the beam where test is conducted, I could see how 10 degree TIR has more of the hotspot, whereas 60 has more corona mixed in?? Very interesting.

DunninLA · 2023-01-21T04:33:55.000Z

cannga:

Specs from Simon:

Lens Multiple TIR choices: 60° Bead, 30 Bead, 10 Bead, 10 Clear (available from Simon, or possibly as gift at time of purchase). See comparison and beamshot discussion HERE

Driver
S21D: 8A Buck (first release, like mine, >90% efficiency - more than FET) or 12A FET (the batch sold in June of 2022)
S21F: Max output 8A, buck constant current

Nichia 219b 4500k
2000LM (LED size 1.5 mm)
CCT 4526k
Ra 96
R9 97
R12 79
Duv –0.00995

. Cannga, slightly off topic, but I am about to order the S21D with 8A driver in 219b 4500K and 10 degree bead lense, and am wondering how good the battery needs to be. I can get Samsung 50E 10A for $5, or Samsung 50S 25A for $9. Will the 50S perform better for the demands of this driver, or would they be about the same? How good is the battery Simon bundles with this? Is it about the same as 50E?

cannga · 2023-01-21T15:19:31.000Z

DunninLA:

Cannga, slightly off topic, but I am about to order the S21D with 8A driver in 219b 4500K and 10 degree bead lense, and am wondering how good the battery needs to be. I can get Samsung 50E 10A for $5, or Samsung 50S 25A for $9. Will the 50S perform better for the demands of this driver, or would they be about the same? How good is the battery Simon bundles with this? Is it about the same as 50E?

I assume by “how good” you meant if the battery needs to be the power type, with high current capability? I am no expert, but in my limited experience with the batteries I have (Samsung 30T, 40T, Wurkkos 5000 mAh OEM, Liitokala Lii-50E coming from Convoy), the answer is no, battery’s current capability doesn’t seem to affect throw or brightness with S21D. S21D doesn’t draw much current, the FET version maybe, but not 8A buck version.

Only with the ultra-bright power hungry LED’s (SBT90.2, the Chinese “power” leds SFH/SFN) have I noticed a difference. And here it could be quite significant. In my Wurkkos TS30S with SBT90.2, Samsung 30T and Nealsgadgets Lishen far, far outshine the stock Wurkkos battery. Repeatedly shown to be a shocking 15% output increase at Turbo turn-on.

But note that even for those powerful lights, I am using the high current battery only for “bragging rights”, that is for testing of throw and output. In regular, actual use, I tend to prefer battery with high 5000 mAh capacity for longer run-time.

I don’t have either of the Samsung’s you mentioned but from just reading specs, 50S is really nice (high capacity 5000 mAh, mid-high current capability 25A) but seems so pricy. I am sort of leaning towards Samsung 50E. I also just noticed the very popular and excellent 40T (mid capacity 4000 mAh, high current 30-35A) is on sale for so cheap at 18650 Battery “(click here)”:Samsung 40T 21700 4000mAh Battery (40T3). Among the Samsung’s, 40T is probably my first choice, especially if you are considering “power” lights in future.

DunninLA · 2023-01-21T16:01:44.000Z

cannga:

DunninLA:

Cannga, slightly off topic, but I am about to order the S21D with 8A driver in 219b 4500K and 10 degree bead lense, and am wondering how good the battery needs to be. I can get Samsung 50E 10A for $5, or Samsung 50S 25A for $9. Will the 50S perform better for the demands of this driver, or would they be about the same? How good is the battery Simon bundles with this? Is it about the same as 50E?

I am no expert, but in my limited experience with the battery I have (Samsung 30T, 40T, Wurkkos 5000 mAh OEM, Liitokala Lii-50E coming from Convoy), the answer is no, battery’s current capability doesn’t seem to affect throw or brightness with S21D. Among the Samsung’s, 40T is probably my first choice, especially if you are considering “power” lights in future.

thanks, that is helpful. I’m really not concerned with better performing turbo if it means the battery costs 80% more (50S vs 50E), or if it means sacrificing capacity from 5000 mAh to 4000 mAh and still more expensive (50E vs 40T), for this light.

I did pay $5 more for Keeppower 26650 vs. Convoy’s ordinary bundled battery with the M3c 70.3, as I thought if I ever need temporary max power throw it is that light that I will be using, not the S21D. Now I’m wondering if that was even necessary, but it was easy and I didn’t have to make an order from a battery retailer.

snfx · 2023-01-21T23:17:56.000Z

cannga:

Sweet - S21F with stepless 519a tint ramping on the way. I am aware of business coming to a grinding halt in East Asia around this time, so this prompt shipping surprises me.

I guess this is how he wins customers, but I do almost feel guilty about the “pestering” .

Potential S21F delivery soon?!

Correllux · 2023-01-22T00:27:27.000Z

DunninLA:

cannga:

DunninLA:

Cannga, slightly off topic, but I am about to order the S21D with 8A driver in 219b 4500K and 10 degree bead lense, and am wondering how good the battery needs to be. I can get Samsung 50E 10A for $5, or Samsung 50S 25A for $9. Will the 50S perform better for the demands of this driver, or would they be about the same? How good is the battery Simon bundles with this? Is it about the same as 50E?

I am no expert, but in my limited experience with the battery I have (Samsung 30T, 40T, Wurkkos 5000 mAh OEM, Liitokala Lii-50E coming from Convoy), the answer is no, battery’s current capability doesn’t seem to affect throw or brightness with S21D. Among the Samsung’s, 40T is probably my first choice, especially if you are considering “power” lights in future.

thanks, that is helpful. I’m really not concerned with better performing turbo if it means the battery costs 80% more (50S vs 50E), or if it means sacrificing capacity from 5000 mAh to 4000 mAh and still more expensive (50E vs 40T), for this light.

I did pay $5 more for Keeppower 26650 vs. Convoy’s ordinary bundled battery with the M3c 70.3, as I thought if I ever need temporary max power throw it is that light that I will be using, not the S21D. Now I’m wondering if that was even necessary, but it was easy and I didn’t have to make an order from a battery retailer.

I think it depends a little on how you’ll use the light. Even if you don’t mind a scrub of turbo brightness, if you’ll use turbo briefly or use higher output frequently, you won’t see the full 5000-ish capacity from the 50E and in that case you’ll be better off with a higher drain cell that still has good capacity like the 40T or Molicell, etc. Often when you approach the upper current capacity of a cell you lose enough through voltage sag and heat that the lower capacity/higher drain cells will perform better on high and also end up giving you about the same capacity/run times as the more stressed cell. You might consider buying the Samsung 50G instead. In the US so far I can only find that one under the Vapcell G50 wrap (liion wholesale has them for about $8). Great cell. At this point I think the jury is out on the 50S…seems great on the surface but stress tests are showing pretty poor lifespan with early and aggressive loss of capacity…seems best for loads that are lower and steadier current. All that said, if you use the light like many do with brief sessions and lower to medium output, any cell will do fine and with the higher capacity ones you will see an appreciably increased run time overall.

snfx · 2023-01-22T00:36:35.000Z

I’m located in Southern California and USPS says my S21F will arrive Monday!

O_O

cannga · 2023-01-22T01:47:17.000Z

You must have been 1st S21F customer. Mine only has “departed from country,” on airplane somewhere.

snfx · 2023-01-22T01:49:03.000Z

cannga:

You must have been 1st S21F customer. :+1: Mine only has “departed from country,” on airplane somewhere.

You ordered shortly after me, check the number on USPS

cannga · 2023-01-22T17:03:42.000Z

USPS doesn’t have it yet. But “import custom clearance complete”! I can’t wait to get my hands on this light. Is this Convoy’s first tint ramping light, any Convoy expert here?

I’ve been thinking how CCT ramping would be done. Convoy UI below - I seem to see a conflict?
With flashlight on, click and hold seems assigned to both changing brightness and changing CCT?

Mode operation instructions:

Flashlight is turned off, click the button —> the flashlight turns on at the last brightness —> press and hold the button, the brightness goes up —> release the button,then press and hold the button again, the brightness goes down.
Flashlight is turned off, press and hold the button —> moonlight mode (this brightness will not be remembered)
Flashlight is turned off or turned on, double click the button —> turbo 100%,
Flashlight is turned on, click and hold button —> color temperature change mode
Flashlight is turned off or turned on,click the button 3 times —> strobe, double-click to enter the SOS, double-click again to enter the beacon, and click to return to the previous brightness
Flashlight is turned off, click the button 4 times —> tactical mode, only 100%, click the button again 4 times to exit the tactical mode.
Flashlight is turned off, click the button 5 times —> voltage detection (* means “flash”, pause means 3.7V,)
Flashlight is turned off, click the button 6 times —> stepless mode is switched to the 4 modes (1–10–40–100)
Flashlight is turned off, click the button 10 times —> lock mode, the flashlight will flash once under any operation, indicating that the flashlight is locked. Click the button again 10 times to exit the lock mode, please note that this is the only way to unlock.

Correllux · 2023-01-22T19:53:42.000Z

cannga:

USPS doesn’t have it yet. But “import custom clearance complete”! :+1: I can’t wait to get my hands on this light. Is this Convoy’s first tint ramping light, any Convoy expert here?

I’ve been thinking how CCT ramping would be done. Convoy UI below - I seem to see a conflict?
With flashlight on, click and hold seems assigned to both changing brightness and changing CCT?

Mode operation instructions:

Flashlight is turned off, click the button —> the flashlight turns on at the last brightness —> press and hold the button, the brightness goes up —> release the button,then press and hold the button again, the brightness goes down.
Flashlight is turned off, press and hold the button —> moonlight mode (this brightness will not be remembered)
Flashlight is turned off or turned on, double click the button —> turbo 100%,
Flashlight is turned on, click and hold button —> color temperature change mode
Flashlight is turned off or turned on,click the button 3 times —> strobe, double-click to enter the SOS, double-click again to enter the beacon, and click to return to the previous brightness
Flashlight is turned off, click the button 4 times —> tactical mode, only 100%, click the button again 4 times to exit the tactical mode.
Flashlight is turned off, click the button 5 times —> voltage detection (* means “flash”, pause means 3.7V,)
Flashlight is turned off, click the button 6 times —> stepless mode is switched to the 4 modes (1–10–40–100)
Flashlight is turned off, click the button 10 times —> lock mode, the flashlight will flash once under any operation, indicating that the flashlight is locked. Click the button again 10 times to exit the lock mode, please note that this is the only way to unlock.

Might have to get it in hand and see what it actually does, but I suspect we’re just looking at 1H and 2H stated differently than TK did with Anduril. Yes, this is his first tint ramper. I don’t have any interest in these from anybody, but I’m curious to see if he implemented the ramping with a logarithmic curve rather than linear, which is the minor irritation that his normal/previous ramping firmware provides. If his driver maker got that right, it’d be great to see that in new drivers for normal mode ramping.

snfx · 2023-01-22T19:56:37.000Z

I wonder if there will be an option to reset the LEDs to 50/50. Anduril has 3H & 9H.

cannga · 2023-01-23T17:36:12.000Z

Correllux:

Might have to get it in hand and see what it actually does, but I suspect we’re just looking at 1H and 2H stated differently than TK did with Anduril…

You got it right on the nose. Per Simon double click and hold.

snfx:

I wonder if there will be an option to reset the LEDs to 50/50. Anduril has 3H & 9H.

Not sure - we know it’s stepless so I’m not sure the mid point will be “marked.” I’m asking Simon (the pestering continues :partying_face: ).

I assume I could measure the point where the CCT hits approximately what we think the mid point is. Wonder whether that would be point of maximum output?

snfx · 2023-01-23T18:18:44.000Z

Just received the light! Great light for $30. Going to try it with 10 flat & 30 bead after work.

cannga · 2023-01-23T21:21:58.000Z

Niiice. 1st customer of 1st Convoy “shape shifter.” Fingers crossed no surprise.

At max brightness, the tint shifts by reducing output of one CCT group? I’m thinking point of max brightness would be “mid-point” where all LEDS get say the max 2A? Comment anyone?