Convoy S21D w/ legendary Nichia 219b. Review & comparison w/ Nichia 519a, B35AM, FFL351A Rosy & other "tint-snob" LEDs. (Summary & measurements on P. 1) LATEST: Hank D4K 519a Dedomed w/ Lume X1 versus Firefly E07X w/ Lume1 & Rosy 351A. 👍

The S21D is for me the epitome of a 219b light and one that I compare all my other lights with for beam shot beauty. I knew M21H would not “improve” on it, just wishing for side switch and on board charging, two features that are important to me. I am happy to find that preliminary (amateur level) testing shows the S21H to be exactly that.

One thing though, the AR lens has purple color reflection, not the more desirable green reflection. (See my test HERE that shows a green coated lens generally adds about 20 points negative.) I am asking Simon if he has the green reflection version of this lens. Very very important for those nerdy white wallers among us. :melting_face: :innocent:

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Simon replied on Aliexpress that green-reflection lens “must be found.” :slightly_smiling_face: I assume this means not available. The size of the lens is 35x1.8mm as seen HERE on Convoy site. If I were as nutty as I was with my Wurkkos TS30S, I would come to flashlightlens.com store to buy lenses to see which one affects output more and which one is green, etc… But I am lazy and will pass this time.

The M21H is rosy as is, but it would be even more so, for example Duv would be around -0.0080 in stead of -0.0060 with a green reflection lens.

Below is picture of the arrangement of the LEDs. Besides side switch, on board charging, and purple reflection lens, this is another significant difference between M21H and S21D. S21D’s 4 LEDS are spread out evenly on the star, whereas M21H’s 4 LEDS are located centrally.

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Do you prefer the beam patteren of the M21H or the S21D?

Yeah I’d love to see a comparison between the two

There is a green AR lens for the M21H. My first M21H was black and that one came with green AR, but my second was MAO and came with magenta AR. I asked Simon if I could buy a replacement green lens, and he sent one with my next order.

Thank you for mentioning this. I am buying the other optics for M21H and asking Simon if he could send me one.

Are you asking about throw vs floody? The answer is it depends on the optics. As you prob. already know S21D has multiple optics like 10 clear (throwy, less “beautiful” beam), 30 bead, 60 bead (IMHO floody, most homogenous/beautiful beam), etc. I like to have more throw in these low power lights so currently I have the 10 clear on the S21D.

Similarly, the M21H has multiple optics (that I plan to buy and try for fun). So right now, with S21D on 10 Clear and M21H has stock 12 degree TIR, S21D is more throwy, M21H more floody.

If you are asking about the shape of the beam, then with close-distance white-walling, neither has the perfect round shape of reflector with single LED. With 4 LEDs, S21D’s beam is kinda squarish with very, very dim wind-spinner periphery , whereas M21H has 4 lobes with very dim lobe periphery. This info is only for the most OCD white wallers :innocent: out there like me, and only up close, a couple feet; in real use and further away I don’t see any of this.

S21D w/ 219b 4500k beam shapes from different TIR optics:
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M21H TIR optics. Stock is 12 degrees:
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Thank you for the explanation, the pictures were grate!

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You’re very welcome. I am fairly nutty :innocent: about photography and even so that picture took a long time to put together.

I’ve noted both my S21D’s with 519a and 219b run very hot in Turbo/100% mode. The heat associated with S21D is also noted in the excellent review by @stephenk here. I’ve done several run times with temp measurements and found what causes the heat is that as temp increases, the output drops as expected, to approximately 40%, but then it stays there and doesn’t drop any further, regardless of the temperature, which climbs to 60° plus. (There’s a review of S21D in Zero Air that appears to confirm this behavior - just one step down and no movement.) S21D seems to have a strange temp regulation algorithm.

I am glad to find that the M21H has a much more active regulation. Output zig-zags constantly during runtime to keep temperature in check. It doesn’t run nearly as hot as S21D and, for me, this might be the biggest improvement of M21H over S21D. In the graph below of S21D, output is the red line, drops once to 40% but stays there regardless of temp (this is for the Constant Current 8A version of S21D, not the FET):

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Can you do a runtime test with the s21d nichia 519a on the 20% mode? Max capacity battery 5000 mah or vapcell 5600 mah?

I’d like to know the total runtime and how it runs, if it dims.

Thanks.

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Sorry, hard to believe but I cannot find the light! Yes picture above with its damaged LEDs was taken just a few days ago, but I’ve just looked all over the house a few times and cannot find the little bast… Lost things do tend to show up again in my house, and I’ll let you know when I find it. In the mean time, I would suggest to ask Simon_Mao the owner of Convoy by PM, or on this thread (he does answer there) : 【convoy】SFT70 3000K CRI95 available

Thanks again for mentioning this. Simon says he will include the green coated AR lens with my TIR order. I would recommend anyone who is interested in this M21H MAO to ask Simon for the green reflection AR lens.

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Some more numbers of M21H:
Output (similar to S21D): ~16-215-605-1590 lumen (S21D: 0, 10, 200, 630, 1560)
CCT ~4300k Ra 96 (R9080 per Simon)
Lens: AR w/ purple reflection, not the more desirable green reflection (ask Simon to give you green one)
Duv: Turbo=-0.0060 and less negative at lower output. Measured with stock AR lens w/ purple reflection.
Driver Buck CC 8A (correct me as needed)

Beam shots coming. I had to apply silicone grease on the thread so that the light stops screaming to alert my wife that I’m wasting time with flashlights again. I ordered more TIR optics to play with, and green coated AR lens is coming from Simon. Other than that so far so good! The light in MAO finish is beautiful, vs plain black of my S21D.I cannot have enough of MAO in my life:

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Beam shots of M21H versus S21D. Because I like more throw, I replaced S21D’s stock 60 Beaded TIR with 10 Clear TIR, causing a little more artifact in the beam shot I think. But more important, I am relieved to see that M21H looks like S21D. That’s all I was hoping for.

For the most nutty OCD :sweat_smile: of white wallers out there: M21H beam shot has 4 lobes, whereas S21D is kinda squarish. 4 LEDs mean neither light has a perfect round circle of single LED in a reflector light. Both have very dim peripheral artifacts, wind spinner for S21D and lobes for M21H. In real life use, I don’t see any of this. Just a very beautiful high CRI rosy-magenta field as expected.
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Speaking of perfect round circle beam shot, here is a formidable competitor, M21B w/ Nichia B35AM 4500k. By design or luck, this combination creates one of my most favorite walk lights. Just around 900-1000 lm, but seems to be cruising without step down (I haven’t done run time yet), and stays cool without much external heat. Beautiful throwy beam. I wish Simon/Convoy will make more lights with this LED.
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Here’s comparison of 219b 4500k with 2 Nichia cousins, Nichia 519a 4500k in Skilhunt Headlamp and 519a 5700k in Convoy CCT-blending light S21F.

I like Convoy blending light A LOT. It has 2x2700k 519a and 2x5700k 519a LEDs (this beam shot is of the 5700k LEDs only-no blending). Simon has fantastic 5700k LEDs if negative Duv samples are what you are looking for. It measures only 5000k (my 519a LEDs always seem to measure lower CCT than spec), and sporting Duv around -0.0050. You could see how magenta it looks vs. 519a 4500k’s yellow color.
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Did you get your S21F recently? As I understand, Simon had to use warmer (~5000k) NW LEDs in an older batch due to availibility problems. Supposedly they are now proper 5700k.
I guess I’ll see for myself as mine (hopefully) will arrive next week.
It should make for a great walking light!

Lol is that what Simon did? Convoy… like a box of chocolate.

But yes, I have two S21F’s. The first one was indeed one of the first S21F’s sent out to customers and its CCT measured 5000k, which until now I thought was due to sample variation. Subsequently one of that light’s LED’s died and Simon sent me a second S21F, which measured 5700k.

Incidentally that same 5700k LED now measures 5000k, using both of my Opple 3’s. The Opple 3 is not scientific grade instrument but has been very stable with CCT measurements. I could have sworn some of my 519a LEDs drop their CCT’s to lower value over time.

All roads lead to Rome?

My 519a 5000k becomes ~3800k when de-domed, and takes on a unique reddish/pinkish tint. What’s interesting is CCT-blending of 519a 5700k and 2700k to 3800k in the Convoy S21F brings me to the same place, a unique reddish/pinkish tint.

The only other LED that looks that pink, actually even more so, is the FFL351A Rosy I just received. Firefly is not kidding when they say this one is rosy!
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Upon hearing the reason I’ve been away from BLF for a long time, fellow BLF’er @14500 asked me a simple question. The result of that exchange is the Firefly E07X pictured here, a small, extremely beautiful :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: light that uses a 4000k version of the FFL351A LED 3700k that got quite an impressive review here on BLF. Sporting Ra 96 Ra 97, Duv -0.0064.

I have some numbers of my own and comparison beamshots coming, but suffice it to say, this is the first light in my small collection that has put a challenge to my Nichia 219b light. It is also the prettiest (check out the unique frost and clear optic to show off the RGB Aux LEDs, as opposed to D4V2’s all frost or all clear), and like my Skilhunt H04 headlamp, looks and feels like a piece of jewel. Like its designer has put a lot of thought into every part of its functions and design.

Being away from this forum for the past couple years, I’ve “missed the boat” on this LED. It has gathered a lot of discussion already, but, better late than never. I saw on Firefly’s web site that all color versions are out, and only MAO finish is available. It seems like Firefly makes a limited number of these specialty-LED lights, so I pulled the trigger right away.

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One more important quote and a question for @14500. I assume “very rosy” is more rosy than “quite rosy”? Sorry my OCD self just have to ask. :slightly_smiling_face:

Independent of CCT, the tint (of course) has huge effect on a LED’s color rendition, and if you have that second group above with “neutral tint,” I would guess it might be on the green side in comparison. Mine is the third group, listed on the web site as “FFL351A 4000K (Rosy Tint)”.

There is an excellent review of the LED by our own BLF’er @koef3 HERE, and AFAIK (anyone please correct me as needed) this LED belongs to the first group. Koef’s test reported truly top notch CRI numbers, Ra 96, R9 97, CCT 3955, and best of all for tint, Duv -0.0064. There is also a very thorough review of the flashlight by another BLF’er @Sirstinky on 1lumen HERE. I don’t know which group this LED belongs to, but it could also be group 1.