Differences 18650/26650 / Protected / Top / Button /Q30/ Best Winner / Chargers / Safekeeping

gecco · 2018-03-22T11:45:02.000Z

Hello everybody.

Since I have only looked around to good lamps and neglected the Batteries now I would like to acquire now also halfway knowledge like that.

I have some lamps so far (Imalent DX80, Astrolux MF02, Lumintop SD75 / Dedicated, Manker U11,
Ituo Wiz 20, Nitecore HC30, Skilhunt H03R, Nitefighter BT21, KD MJ-880 Clone, 8x Yinding, Nitefighter BT40 Mod, Solarstorm X2.

Currently I own some Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mah Protected Button Batteries and a Xtar VC4 Charger!
I have now but on advice for the Astrolux MF02 4x Samsung 18650 Q30 3000mah ordered!

I need batteries in the near future and wanted to ask if you can help me!
According to common sense would be hot all the more mAh the longer the lamp burns and hochstromfest means for me that they can hold max current longer, right?
Should I buy more high-current a la Q30 now with less mAh or more mAh and no high current fixed?

Q30, what does that mean, are there any other high-current denominations or what do they deplore?
Which lamps exactly need high current resistant batteries now (examples)?

Protected means protected for me, that is, they should switch off in case of overload or under-voltage, is that correct?
If you prefer to use protected or non-protected, the non-protected version will probably offer more, but what about the security (explode-degas, etc.).
How dangerous are 18650 or 26650 batteries?

Maybe you can give me a few test winners of 18650- prodected non prodected, 18650 Q30 or 26650 batteries?

My Xtar VC4 device charges 2 batteries with 1 Ah with 4 batteries with 0.5 Ah that is relatively slow, there are faster good cheap (up to 50 Euro) chargers that charge faster or is the battery still good or harmful ( Lifespan)?
But it should be a charger that can charge at least 4 batteries at the same time!

How do I keep my batteries safe, I’ve heard of battery safety bags,
Do the batteries burn out or explode immediately? How safe is it if I put many batteries in a safety bag?
Is there a difference if the battery is broken, protected or non protected?
How do you keep your batteries where and how many?

Questions about asking, I hope you can help me with that? Thank you in advance!

WaylonJennings · 2018-03-22T13:12:17.000Z

The best 26650 cell is the Shockli 5500, for capacity (mAh) and high current.

As for the 18650 question, it depends upon the amount of current demanded by your light for optimum performance. If you have a high demand multi-emitter light you will want a high current cell. The best one out there is the Sony VTC5a. If you have a light that does not require much current you can go with a high capacity cell like the Samsung 35E or Panasonic GA.

The other option would be to go with the best of both worlds compromise like the Sony VTC6 or Samsung 30Q. They offer 3120 mAh and 3000mAh capacity and can supply enough current for all but the most demanding lights.

About 80% of my 18650 cells are VTC6’s and 30Q’s. I have a few high capacity cells for some lights that do not demand much current and ten Sony VTC5a’s for my most power hungry lights like the X45vn.

As for a good charger, I really like my Gyrfalcon All-44. It charges at .1, .25, .5 and 1.0 Amps and is a very simple charger to use. Another popular charger is the Opus BT-3100.

On the left side of the BLF home page you will find a list of related sites. A great guy that goes by HKJ does VERY good test/reviews of chargers and batteries. You will learn everything you need to know there. He is THE MAN!

Two years ago I knew nothing, now I know a little bit more thanks to HKJ and BLF.
Lygte-info.dk

WaylonJennings · 2018-03-22T13:25:36.000Z

As for battery safety, I would suggest sticking to Sony, Samsung, LG, Panasonic and Shockli cells and buy them from reputable sources and use only good chargers. Others here will chime in with good EU battery sources.

Just keep your cells in a cool dry place and store them in the little plastic battery cases or something else that will keep the contacts separated to avoid shorting them out.

As for the battery bags, I do not see the need as long as you treat your batteries with respect. My first Li cells were protected pany B’s like you have. I was concerned about what COULD happen with a Lithium cell so I decided to go that way. Now I understand that if you treat them right, quality unprotected cells are the way to go and are safe to use.

patmurris · 2018-03-22T18:27:23.000Z

Welcome to BLF gecco!

Li-Ion batteries take some learning curve and you are right to ask.

First-off they usually don’t explode or vent toxic gases when mishandled, although it happened a few times, but that’s very unusual compared to their shear number out there. Still, they require some special care, like storing them in plastic cases so they don’t get damaged.

They should not be over charged or over discharged… and they should not be shorted or generally put through currents higher then their specs allow. Protection included in ‘protected’ cells ensure it does not happen.

However, some lights need higher currents then some batteries and their protection circuit allow. For those lights you prefer to use unprotected cells with a chemistry that allow higher current - high drain IMR/INR for instance. In this case you must be careful not to deplete the cells below some voltage (2.8V?). These lights often feature a low voltage protection (LVP) that will prevent that. Some lights even allow you to check your battery voltage.

BTW: Q30 does not exist… You mean 30Q i guess. This is not a ‘high drain’ label or acronym either, but a particular battery model from Samsung - INR18650 30Q.

gecco · 2018-03-22T19:46:23.000Z

You helped me a lot. Thanks a lot

WalkIntoTheLight · 2018-03-22T19:56:35.000Z

First of all, if you’re worried about the safety of 18650 lithium-ion cells, then you are likely a good candidate for using them. Yes, I know that sounds contradictory, but the only time they become unsafe is when people are too stupid to know that.

Genuine brand-name lithium-ion batteries (Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, Sanyo) are actually quite safe, even if they are unprotected. They have to go through rigorous torture-tests to make sure they don’t explode or catch fire. Stuff like baking them in an oven for hours, and short-circuiting them for hours. That will ruin the cells, of course, but it shouldn’t cause a fire.

So, since you’re paranoid, that’s good. It means you won’t do anything really stupid. I like unprotected cells, because many lights won’t fit the longer and fatter protected cells. Besides, protection won’t stop an internal short or the battery getting crushed.

Just buy a good name-brand cell. The Samsung ICR18650 30Q is probably the best high-drain cell for the cheapest price, and it’s a very good cell. Buy it in the US from mountain electronics, or illum, or even overseas from a site you trust. They are manufactured flat top, but you can also get them with button tops added if you need it.

As for a charger, I use a Nitecore SC4 4-cell charger, but any charger uses the same CC/CV algorithm, so don’t get hung up on any particular model. Even those cheap little micro-USB chargers are fine. Make sure to use a DMM to check battery voltage before and after charging, just to be sure. And, of course, never charge when you’re not home.

patmurris · 2018-03-22T21:57:42.000Z

Oh and by the way, in Europe, NKON is a trusted and knowledgeable provider:

eu.nkon.nl

Home page | NKON

NKON is a webshop, specialised in batteries, chargers en LED-flashlight. We ship worldwide!

WalkIntoTheLight · 2018-03-22T22:21:12.000Z

Banggood and Gearbest also sell genuine cells. Just make sure to buy proper brands, because they also sell crap. They may not be able to ship to you, though.

There are some Ali stores that also sell genuine cells. I just got an order from one, and they seem to be genuine cells. Free (or cheap) shipping, but very slow. But there are also lots of fake stores, so get a recommendation if you’re going the Ali or Ebay route. I’d avoid Amazon, since they group different stores in the same bin, so fakes can slip into even reliable vendors.

You do not want to risk getting fake cells. So always check them out when you get them, and perform some basic tests like making sure they hold a full charge for several days.

gecco · 2018-03-26T18:20:55.000Z

Do the Samsung Q30 supply enough juice for the MF02 or should I better take the LG HG2, Sony VT6, Samsung 35E or even better the Sony VTC5A?
What would you take for batteries for the Astrolux MF02 or Mateminco MT35? Thanks

WalkIntoTheLight · 2018-03-26T19:54:04.000Z

gecco:

Do the Samsung Q30 supply enough juice for the MF02 or should I better take the LG HG2, Sony VT6, Samsung 35E or even better the Sony VTC5A?

Since the 30Q is specifically mentioned as a battery for the MF02, it should be fine. There’s no way the MF02 will drain the cells anywhere close to their max rating.

patmurris · 2018-03-27T00:58:25.000Z

30Q, HG2, VTC5A or 6 are pretty much equivalent high drain cells. Although there may be some variations in the discharge curves and specs, you would hardly notice them in real life.

The 35Es are not in the same game. They have one of the largest 18650 capacity and can sustain some pull, but not as much as the above. It’s a very good compromise unless you’re obsessively chasing lumens - which is not an uncommon condition on BLF. :sunglasses: