Drop.com $20 off - Lumintop Copper/Brass Tool for $10 - Discount not available as of 12/10/19

kat · 2019-12-04T20:00:43.000Z

It’s probably a small li-ion battery, not a capacitor.

xevious · 2019-12-04T20:09:27.000Z

Muto:

What happens when you pull the tailcap and use a wirere may be something wrong with the driver, if it does show strong difference then the electronic switch is the culprit. At least you will ke to connect end of battery tube to battery negative?
If you still have hardly any difference between med and high then thnow which is problem.

Mine acted somewhat same way till a Regular AAA primary reading 1.58v was inserted, then it charged up that tailcap real quick and we have been up and running just fine back on the Eneloops.
There probably is no stepup to switch voltage so you may need higher voltage one time to get it to spec.
Wish I had a Lithium AAA primary on hand to see how much brighter (if any) these lights get at 1.80 volts that these batteries usually start at when new.
HTH

Later,
Keith

Great idea, Keith. I found a wire, stripped the ends, and completed the circuit. And YES… now it was clear to me the difference between medium & high. I noticed even medium is brighter without the tail cap. So apparently there must be some kind of current regulation going on in the tail cap and mine is faulty. I installed the tail cap after this test, and now I can’t even get mode changes working properly again. It’s either some sort of medium, then a medium-high, which starts out a little dim while switch is still depressed then brightens a little upon release of button. No low. Hopefully the replacement will be OK.

Yokiamy · 2019-12-04T20:23:56.000Z

djozz:

Anything from Drop (or anything from the US) goes via dutch customs (€18 extra minimum), so not worth it.

Useful info, thanx Djozz

WalkIntoTheLight · 2019-12-04T20:57:30.000Z

kat:

It’s probably a small li-ion battery, not a capacitor.

Even dumber design, then. You have to charge a separate lithium-ion battery in the tailcap, every time you change the “main” battery? I don’t believe it.

I think they’re faulty units. The “charge the tailcap capacitor” is a dumb excuse.

xevious · 2019-12-04T21:12:24.000Z

kat:

It’s probably a small li-ion battery, not a capacitor.

WTH? Nobody makes a flashlight electronic switch like that. Why would they? A li-ion battery would eventually require replacement, having far less lifespan than a capacitor. And a tiny li-ion battery sandwiched inside a tail switch certainly wouldn’t be user serviceable.

argolite · 2019-12-05T18:07:34.000Z

Here’s the abstract from Lumintop’s Energy storage type zero-power flashlight electronic switching circuit Chinese patent application:

The utility model discloses an energy storage type zero -power flashlight electronic switching circuit, manage Q1, resistance R1 and electric capacity C1 including chip U1, battery U2, diode D1, MOS, 3 difference linked switch K1 of chip U1 pin, resistance R1 and electric capacity C1, chip U1 pin 6 and MOS pipe Q1’s the G utmost point is connected respectively to the resistance R1 other end, MOS pipe Q1’s D extremely distinguishes connecting resistance R3 and output B1, it is anodal that diode D1 is connected to the resistance R3 other end, chip U1 pin 5 is connected respectively to diode D1 negative pole, anodal and the diode D2 negative pole of battery U2, MOS pipe Q1’s the S utmost point is connected respectively to diode D2 positive pole, battery U2 negative pole, electric capacity C2, the output B2 and the electric capacity C1 other end. The utility model discloses a MOS control oil pipe heavy current, light in weight more small than ordinary mechanical switch, it is littleer than ordinary electronic switching circuit consumption, can reduce the standby electric current and adopt continuous electric energy storage type form for zero, these article, so do not worry live time and life.

See paragraphs [0011] to [0014] if you understand electronics and can get past the machine translation.

EDIT: added pic from T18 in the other thread. Note there’s one more component on the other side of the board (the MOS?) that matches what I can see at the base of the spring on my MassDrop light.

xevious · 2019-12-05T01:01:39.000Z

^ What does this mean for the lay person who isn’t fluent in electronic circuit diagrams & components?

hank · 2019-12-05T01:45:41.000Z

Copper is out of stock now. They have a notice link, and appear to expect to have more eventually.

We’ll send you an email once the product run starts.

jon_slider · 2019-12-05T03:03:38.000Z

kat:

It’s probably a small li-ion battery, not a capacitor.

it is actually a supercap

ATTN Lumintop Tool Ti users 1 x AAA Flashlights

[image] It’s a good Seiko capacitor, not a battery. https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/38283/250

antiparanoico:

It’s a good Seiko capacitor, not a battery.
https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/38283/250

xevious:

^ What does this mean for the lay person who isn’t fluent in electronic circuit diagrams & components?

It means the capacitor in the switch needs to charge up for the modes to work. Once the cap is full, all the modes will switch.

If the cap is not loaded, the vessel cant make the quantum leap into hyperspace :student:

argolite · 2019-12-05T05:07:27.000Z

Thanks for the pointer. Here’s an interesting switch pic from that thread courtesy of T18 Available on BangGood now:ReyLight Custom-Lumintop‬ Tool Ti AAA, L-M-H - #219 by T18
I see why it feels like the button is contacting the switch off center.

EDIT: I’ll add T18’s pic next to the schematic I extracted from the patent above for convenient comparison.

moderator007 · 2019-12-24T03:52:49.000Z

I just got my order for 10 Supercaps today from arrow electronics for building Loneoceans GFS16 FET switches. Ordered a few for spares.

GFS16 - Battery Indicator Tailcap Light & 1mR FET Tailswitch! (Rev B) Flashlight Modding and DIY Parts

Hello BLF, TL;DR: I built a tailswitch system comprised of two PCBs, called the GFS16 System. First is a 18mm Taillight board which provides the regular taillight, and also features a battery sensing system to change the LEDs colours when the battery voltage is low (Rev B features 5uA standby current!). Second is a 16mm Tailspring/FET board, which allows replacement of the switch for a super low resistance FET, allow for the best performance in high current flashlights. All PCBs are up on OSHP…

The Seiko Supercaps are tiny and look just like a coin battery. Its only 4.8 mm in diameter.
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/xh414hg-iv01e/seiko-instruments-inc
It could be the same one used in these tool switches, I will check next time I take one apart.
.
Edit: I can confirm it is this exact SC, the Seiko XH414HG-IV01E.

kat · 2019-12-05T16:52:59.000Z

if it’s a supercap then it should charge in seconds, not minutes

and something doesn’t make sense.
if it needs to be charged before use then it means there’s no battery inside?
and there was never a battery inside, no testing with a battery at all?
either that or the supercap lost it’s charge. so that means that thiswill just drain the battery all the time.
probably not a good idea to make switches like this

jon_slider · 2019-12-05T17:30:20.000Z

kat:

something doesn’t make sense.

It works even when you dont understand why.

try one sometime…

Here is my eSwitch Cu Tool running an MLH head from a Maratac, w sw45k LED swap

argolite · 2019-12-05T17:33:17.000Z

kat:

if it’s a supercap then it should charge in seconds, not minutes

Charge time will depend on how much current is provided. The current could be quite low if the supercapacitor is in series with a large resistor (e.g., R3 and the BAT in the patent schematic).

WalkIntoTheLight · 2019-12-05T17:39:16.000Z

kat:

if it’s a supercap then it should charge in seconds, not minutes

Yup.

either that or the supercap lost it’s charge. so that means that thiswill just drain the battery all the time.
probably not a good idea to make switches like this

Yup. A supercap is certainly not low self-discharge. It will continue to drain the battery as it continuously needs to be topped up with charge. You have maybe a month of shelf-life before your battery is drained by the supercap.

and something doesn’t make sense.

Yup. This stupid flashlight design.

Everyone else seems to be able to design lights with switches that can run off the main battery, and don’t need to be charged for an hour before you use it.

I still think the units must be faulty. I’m having a really difficult time believing anyone would design such a ridiculous switch.

argolite · 2019-12-05T19:07:19.000Z

WalkIntoTheLight:

Yup. A supercap is certainly not low self-discharge. It will continue to drain the battery as it continuously needs to be topped up with charge. You have maybe a month of shelf-life before your battery is drained by the supercap.

I’m not sure your speculation matches what others have experienced with these switches that seem to have been used for over 4 years. Here’s a comment in the other thread

ReyLight:

Just called Lumintop boss to double confirm, it is a cap, not a battery. It drains minimal current,which can’t even be measured.

I'd like to know the parasitic drain of the switch assembly, but like I said, my (crude) multimeter measures nothing.

Note if parasitic drain is an issue and I need to leave the light sit for a month, it's easy to lock out by loosening the head 1/4 turn.

jon_slider · 2019-12-05T20:37:27.000Z

argolite:

… these switches that seem to have been used for over 4 years. Here’s a comment in the other thread

ReyLight:

Just called Lumintop boss to double confirm, it is a cap, not a battery. It drains minimal current,which can’t even be measured.

I’d like to know the parasitic drain of the switch assembly, but like I said, my (crude) multimeter measures nothing.

Thanks! you said what I was thinking.

In actual use I have not had any problem with my eSwitch Tool
it is a Brilliant Design!

tailstands, silent, simple
KISS

for those who do not know the history…
the Lumintop TiTool was the first eSwitch Tool,
here is maukka’s excellent review

Lumintop Tool AAA Copper + Titanium measurements (Nichia 219B) 1 x AAA Flashlights

Here’s some data I measured from the two special editions of the Lumintop Tool AAA. My Tool Ti is a Reylight variant with an inverted mode switching (L-M-H). The Copper one is from Massdrop with the stock mode order (M-L-H). The Ti has been in use for some time, so the tailcap capacitor has had to time to properly charge and activate the high mode. Some interesting findings were made especially in the highest mode. The Ti seems very inefficient compared to the Copper. The problem lies in the dr…

maukka:

The Ti’s electronic switch is flush to the tailcap and very quiet. Straight from the factory, its microcapacitor is empty and the high mode doesn’t work. After a day or so with a battery inside, it is charged.

Copper body with the titanium tailcap is my favorite to edc

Then my friend Coppet made his own by transplanting a TiTool eSwitch into a CuTool:

Lumintop Tool Copper with electronic switch 1 x AAA Flashlights

I like the Lumintop Copper Tool but I wish it had a e-switch like the Ti and the Massdrop brass Tool. So I have ordered me a Ti tailcap with switch from Lumintop as a spare part and did the following little mod [image] [image] [image] [image] [image] [image] [image] [image] [image] [image] [image] [image] [image] [image] So……how do you like it

Coppet:

Then Massdrop ordered copper ones, and sold thousands of them. I have one, it works great.

I ordered another one.

buck91 · 2019-12-05T20:28:58.000Z

I’ve had the same amaloop nimh aaa in my ti tool for well over 6 months and it still works fine. Parasitic draw mustn’t be too extreme.

LightObsession · 2019-12-05T22:16:28.000Z

What I like most about the eswitch on these Tools, is that it seems like it would be nearly impossible to have them come on in your pocket at any level other than low, which means that you’d have a long time to discover it before the battery could be drained to an extreme degree.

I think that the UI is a bit awkward, but it’s very good for assuring only low mode turn-ons in the pocket. Any accidental turn-ons seem pretty unlikely with these switches, anyway, since they’re not proud of the tail cap.

ValuseekeR · 2019-12-05T22:50:57.000Z

It is what it is I guess, but mine has been sitting in Hebron (roughly 10-15 minutes from my house) for several days with no update…