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I would love to see those take off.

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This is the ideal situation. Your vehicle will be parked at home for ~8-12 hours a night, generally recovering from one dayā€™s worth of driving. Charging speed isnā€™t terribly important in this situation - a nominal 50A/240V circuit will be sufficient to recharge from empty within that time period; more than sufficient to recover daily driving.

Fast charging networks operated by companies not named Tesla are not known for their excellence.

Teslaā€™s advantage is they control the process soup to nuts - they make the cars, have access to their deepest internal workings, make the chargers, operate the charging sites. Because supercharging is a key part of the experience for their customers, Tesla has gone to great lengths to ensure that it just works.

Other networks ā€¦ just operate the sites. A significant issue is a general lack of per-vehicle validation: 3rd-party charger OEMs often use the paper spec for the protocols rather than testing against actual hardware which can result in weird behavior such as needlessly slow charging. Thereā€™s also the usual maintenance woes, app-only interfaces, lack of staffing at sites to perform basic troubleshooting, and some apparent grudging compliance culture that aggravates the situation.

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Hydrogen fuel cells may make sense in some applications like construction and mining equipment, aerospace, trans-oceanic shipping - larger equipment that operates far from infrastructure of any sort.

EVs need to be more repairable, for sure. Tesla with their structural battery packs (read: glued together ala smartphones) and chunks of the rest of the industry using spite pricing is immensely problematic. Manufacturers need to make individual modules available for reasonable prices as well as provide access to diagnostic data/tools so third parties can perform repairs.

But I donā€™t foresee anything like a universal standard emerging anytime soon. Designs are in a state of flux, new battery technologies are likely to emerge, and vehicle packaging requirements can be quite demanding.

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This makes no sense.

Unless your small business IS driving 1) why would they be driving all the time, 2) why would it need 4 hours to charge?

A mine is NOT a small business. Why did you just project your conjecture on how long it would charge into somehow brankrupting small business?

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If youā€™d just stop BEV bashing for a moment and look at the examples Iā€™ve given, youā€™ll see that Sandvik are working on swappable batteries. Google Sandvik TH550B- itā€™s an underground haul truck, specs include 50 tonnes capacity (this is big for underground), 540kW and 6400Nm torque.

You raise a point about government regulations, yes, likely BEVā€™s will help meet regulations- most countries have a mining code, which has limits for underground emissions due to the health of workers. Itā€™s not some global warming conspiracy, itā€™s common sense that companies shouldnā€™t have working conditions that injure people.

Thereā€™s lots of stuff that is semi-static, or has a small work area, that run on umbilical cables- drills, scoops etc. Most have a diesel engine for moving between different areas of a mine. Sandvik are proposing replacing this engine with a battery, which seems pretty sensible to me (that link to the drill rig I posted is an example of this).

One of the major reasons is simply cost savings. Mines track the costs of each tonne of rock drilled, blasted, moved, processed, disposed of, ground support/engineering, maintaining vehicles, paying salaries, keeping the lights on, etc. Keeping costs down is key for an efficient and profitable operation.

If these companies believe maintainence and running costs will be lower with BEV equipment Vs the diesel equivalent, then theyā€™ll simply go with the lower cost option.

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Local small business started using evs for airport shuttling. Eau Claire Wi is 90miles from MSP airport. He has a small fleet of teslas for shuttling people back and forth. Its far more affordable than gas vehicles for fuel and with fewer moving parts they tank miles cheaper than his previous fleet vehicles.

In the cold

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Yes but they probably have their own charging stations, no? So you can literally plan the recharge as part of their schedule. The problem is that does not exist for regular consumers.

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Sounds like an infrastructure issue that will change as charging stations become more abundant and charging as a whole evolves. Battery technology is supposed to be getting a huge boost in a year or two with Toyota predicting faster charging, longer range with solid state batteries. This could also affect cold temperature usage also, who knows. Car prices in general are out of control even for ice cars. Which ever car company that can make an affordable car will sell more cars. Ice or EV. Practically speaking, I doubt ICE will ever be gone totally.

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They donā€™t have them where I am but those tax incentives would be infuriating to me. Imagine making minimum wage and finding out all that money they take off your paycheck every 2 weeks is being used to cover the downpayment on some boomerā€™s electric pickup truck and you go to work on a bicycle.

I kinda get the reasoning behind it, kinda, but hell naw. You get a cheque that would change a lot of peopleā€™s lives every time you buy a new Tesla? Tf?

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I donā€™t know whatā€™s being offered in California but the max federal tax credit is $7500 in the form of a nonrefundable credit. You have to have a tax liability of that amount to receive it. For reference, there is a tax credit for numerous things including luxury yachts. Minimum wage guy has his own set of credits like earned income credit and others.

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In general thatā€™s the problem of captive/non-free markets and top-down economies.

Anything you subsidise, you get more of.

You want people to buy e-cars, you pay them to do it when they wouldnā€™t survive on their own without the subsidies.

You donā€™t want people to buy smokes and b00ze, you tax the shiite out of it. (But then call them ā€œsin taxesā€ to make more taxation palatable to the masses.)

So, yeah, the schmo who drags his ass out of bed each day making minimum wage might get those EIC credits and all, and yeah, theyā€™re used to cover someoneā€™s e-car downpayment.

Weā€™re still somewhat in the carrot stage of pushing people from ICE cars to EVs. Later theyā€™ll ditch the carrot and take out the stick. Refuse to register cars older than X years. Increase emissions standards to a slow strangle. Tax gas stations out of business or otherwise punish them (ie, treat their in-ground tanks as superfund sites). Tax gasoline out of existence. Etc.

There are still too many ICE cars out there for them to do that all at once, because then those pushing those ā€œgoalsā€ would be voted out of office in a jiffy, and they want to keep that gravy train choo-chooing along. But give 'em timeā€¦

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Modern Americans are having to learn that 21st-century America canā€™t supply the electricity we use anymore so we are adapting to long and frequent blackouts by finding ways to keep our houses heated and food cooked and kept fresh, blackouts, generators, solar backups, are a part of routine conversations now.

The same people causing us to back-up our electric lights with candles are the same ones wanting to remove gasoline and natural gas and replace that vast and extraordinary energy resource requirement with electricity.
With the removal coming first, before the replacement exists.

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As though the people making hoards of money off fossil fuels, autos, and the entire associated industries are going to willingly give up their profits and jobs to work conscientiously and tirelessly for the replacement.
Plus all the people that either donā€™t understand the problem, donā€™t believe there is a problem, or donā€™t give a ratā€™s ass working to make sure changes donā€™t happen.

Pretty much no human society has EVER made a major change in the way they are doing things if it inconveniences them.
Of course they bitch ceaselessly when the government attempts to make these changes happen. REMEMBER-HOW they try to make changes happen is generally a compromise between 2 opposing factions. Itā€™s NEVER EVER clean, neat, and efficient.
Humans do not go gently into tomorrow.

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I am a modern American and I dont see where the frequent black outs are.

Where do you live and can you list the black outs that you are talking about.

I will give you my own example.

NYC has experienced one black out in the past 50 years.

In 1977.

I mean one that lasted a measurable amount of time.

Please give your examples now that I have given mine.

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Texas for one. They have some SERIOUS problems with how they deal with energy.

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Do you mean all of Texas has a blackout or are you talking about Dallas or Austin, or are you talking about a two horse town that does not have a modern electric grid.

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Doesnā€™t make sense does it? But apparently the goal is worth the pain inflicted on othersā€¦

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How about Los Angeles or San Francisco. And many others on the brink.
"In August 2020, hundreds of thousands of Californians briefly lost power in rolling blackouts "

ā€œMost Californians expect to endure multiple blackouts this summerā€

ā€œAt the same time, energy demand is climbing due to a push to electrify everything from cars to homes. And new sources of renewable energy are backed up for years in permitting bottlenecks.ā€

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Mandrake since you are answering for Brad.

How many long lasting black outs have Los Angeles or San Francisco experienced in the past 50 years.

Examples please.

I gave mine now you give yours.

I mean one affecting the entire city for more than 10 hrs.

List the dates and the duration of the black out
in chronological order.

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I am answering for myself. But do read my edit.

10 minutes is too long when it is unnecessary and absolutely driven by somebody elseā€™s misguided mandates.