Emisar 21700!!!

[Lux-Perpetua]

@Helio2000K

Hello! First post to this forum, (…)

Welcome to BLF! Nice to have you onboard. :-)

@Helio2000K

(…)Trouble is, I keep changing my mind of which one to get. (…)

The everlasting problem each true flashoholic faces in forums like BLF. :-)) There’s only one answer: Get them all. :-P Joking aside, I have already decided for the exact configuration #3 of yours and I will probably fall in love for #1 as well (even though my gf is about to kill me for buying just another flashlight).

[Helio2000K]

Thanks for the welcome!

I may end up with three in the end, but that feels excessive.

Might want to wait until there are a few reviews. With so many emitters, heat and power draw could be a bigger consideration, so perhaps going for the most efficient emitters is the best option (in which case, I think the preference would be E21K > XP-L > SST20.).

Can anyone explain the “OTF lumen output at start-up” specs on hanks page? For example, if I want to compare across the 4000K range there seems to be a huge difference in output:

• CH1, 9*SST-20 4000K/2700K: 5000lm

• CH1, XP-L HI: 7500lm

• CH1, 9*E21A 4500K/3500K/2700K: 2150lm

Are these numbers representing the max brightness at turbo mode, or is it more nuanced?

[Lux-Perpetua]

@Helio2000K

Thanks for the welcome! I may end up with three in the end, but that feels excessive. Might want to wait until there are a few reviews. With so many emitters, heat and power draw could be a bigger consideration, so perhaps going for the most efficient emitters is the best option (in which case, I think the preference would be E21K > XP-L > SST20.). Can anyone explain the “OTF lumen output at start-up” specs on hanks page? For example, if I want to compare across the 4000K range there seems to be a huge difference in output: * CH1, 9SST-20 4000K/2700K: 5000lm * CH1, XP-L HI: 7500lm * CH1, 9E21A 4500K/3500K/2700K: 2150lm Are these numbers representing the max brightness at turbo mode, or is it more nuanced?

Yes, these numbers represent to maximum output measured "out the front", i.e. OTF. These numbers are usually more useful than actual LED lumens which do not account for losses by TIR lens and glass lens. If you want to go for best efficiency and highest output, you may want to focus on XP-L HI. The V2 5D (4.000K) bin will probably have a bit less output than V3 3A (5.000K). As a rule of thumb you can say, the warmer the tint, the less efficient and less bright the LED will be.

Regarding the different emitters:

SST20 4000/2700K will have the highest intensity (most throw, best beam distance) but less lumens than XP-L HI. They come with high color rendition in 2700K and 4000K. 5000K and 6500K is 70CRI (standard). They also get hot more quickly if driven hard.

XP-L HI are known for very high efficiency and a great beam without tintshift but only come in standard CRI. Some people are totally addicted to HighCRI, some people don't even notice any difference between 70CRI and 95CRI. The best is to find out by yourself. ;-)

E21A on the other side is the crème de la créme in terms of optimum color rendition. Colors will really pop using light from E21A emitters and they have a good proportion of red light (mind the R9 value next to the name, R9080 is best). However, these LEDs get hot very quickly, have the lowest output and must be driven carefully. That's why E21A lights from Hank do not use direct drive (i.e. all the current the battery can supply) but only fully regulated constant current circuits.

[Boro]

This thread is like the old BLF, really informative posts of late.

[Photon_Master]

@Lux-Perpetua

@Helio2000K

Thanks for the welcome! I may end up with three in the end, but that feels excessive. Might want to wait until there are a few reviews. With so many emitters, heat and power draw could be a bigger consideration, so perhaps going for the most efficient emitters is the best option (in which case, I think the preference would be E21K > XP-L > SST20.). Can anyone explain the “OTF lumen output at start-up” specs on hanks page? For example, if I want to compare across the 4000K range there seems to be a huge difference in output: * CH1, 9*SST-20 4000K/2700K: 5000lm * CH1, XP-L HI: 7500lm * CH1, 9*E21A 4500K/3500K/2700K: 2150lm Are these numbers representing the max brightness at turbo mode, or is it more nuanced?

Yes, these numbers represent to maximum output measured “out the front”, i.e. OTF. These numbers are usually more useful than actual LED lumens which do not account for losses by TIR lens and glass lens. If you want to go for best efficiency and highest output, you may want to focus on XP-L HI. The V2 5D (4.000K) bin will probably have a bit less output than V3 3A (5.000K). As a rule of thumb you can say, the warmer the tint, the less efficient and less bright the LED will be.

Regarding the different emitters:

SST20 4000/2700K will have the highest intensity (most throw, best beam distance) but less lumens than XP-L HI. They come with high color rendition in 2700K and 4000K. 5000K and 6500K is 70CRI (standard). They also get hot more quickly if driven hard.

XP-L HI are known for very high efficiency and a great beam without tintshift but only come in standard CRI. Some people are totally addicted to HighCRI, some people don’t even notice any difference between 70CRI and 95CRI. The best is to find out by yourself.

E21A on the other side is the crème de la créme in terms of optimum color rendition. Colors will really pop using light from E21A emitters and they have a good proportion of red light (mind the R9 value next to the name, R9080 is best). However, these LEDs get hot very quickly, have the lowest output and must be driven carefully. That’s why E21A lights from Hank do not use direct drive (i.e. all the current the battery can supply) but only fully regulated constant current circuits.

This is the best explanation of the different emitters I’ve ever seen. I’ve been confused by this for a while. Thanks so much

P.s. would you mind educating me on how the Osram emitters fit in with the others? (Channel 2)

[Pavlo]

@Helio2000K

Thanks for the welcome!

I may end up with three in the end, but that feels excessive.

Might want to wait until there are a few reviews. With so many emitters, heat and power draw could be a bigger consideration, so perhaps going for the most efficient emitters is the best option (in which case, I think the preference would be E21K > XP-L > SST20.).

Can anyone explain the “OTF lumen output at start-up” specs on hanks page? For example, if I want to compare across the 4000K range there seems to be a huge difference in output:

• CH1, 9*SST-20 4000K/2700K: 5000lm

• CH1, XP-L HI: 7500lm

• CH1, 9*E21A 4500K/3500K/2700K: 2150lm

Are these numbers representing the max brightness at turbo mode, or is it more nuanced?

The SST20 and XP-L Hi max lumens run on FET, which is direct drive off the battery, and is not regulated.
The E21A lumens is substantially lower because it does not have a direct drive mode, but instead the quoted lumens is at the regulated 9 amp setting.
The SST20 in the max regulated 9 amp setting will be about equally bright as the e21a. The XP-L Hi being a 70 CRI LED will be about 30% brighter.

The quoted lumens in Hank’s page are quoting the brightest each light will go, but its a little misleading for the reason above.

If you want the wow factor for a very short period of time in FET, don’t get the E21A.
The E21A is a midpower LED, and the one advantage it has is that it has a more consistent tint at lower power modes. The SST20 at lower power modes will go more and more green, unless the driver uses PWM to reach the lower modes.

If you are buying the light for its ability to offer consistent and regulated output for prolonged use, I wouldn’t rule out the E21A based on the fact that it can’t do direct drive.

[Lux-Perpetua]

@Photon Master

This is the best explanation of the different emitters I’ve ever seen. I’ve been confused by this for a while. Thanks so much P.s. would you mind educating me on how the Osram emitters fit in with the others? (Channel 2)

Those Osram W1 emitters will offer even more intensity (throw/beam distance) than any of the other LEDs as they have a very small die size. They could probably be useful as an addition to the maybe floodier part of light emitted by the 9 inner LEDs. Eventually, the intensity also depends on the type of optic and beam angle that is being used for the outer 3 LEDs.

In addition to 9x XP-L HI 4000K I have decided to choose 3x SST20 deep red as some kind of auxiliary light to either maintain night vision capability or to not attract insects in hot summer nights. Besides that, those three deep red LEDs will provide plenty of light when needed. Moreover, I am somehow crazy about (deep) red light, feeling very comfortable using it occasionally for indoor lighting as well.

I might be interested in another K9.3 with 9x E21A 2000K R9050 (absolutely awesome candlelight tint!) or E21A 3500K R9080 (probably more useful in everyday life) and 3x Osram W1 amber/yellow to support the warmwhite floody beam when more beam distance is required. When used in foggy weather, amber/yellow light will have less effect on backscatter as its proportion of blue light is much lower than in LEDs with coldwhite/neutralwhite tint.

[Helio2000K]

Awesome, thank you /u/Lux-Perpetua. I’ve done a bit of googling on this but haven’t come across anything that compares the three types in quite this way.

SST20 4000/2700K will have the highest intensity (most throw, best beam distance) but less lumens than XP-L HI. They come with high color rendition in 2700K and 4000K. 5000K and 6500K is 70CRI (standard). They also get hot more quickly if driven hard.

I think this explains why I like my D4SV2 with SST20 2700K so much. Bigger body seems to keep the heat in check really nicely. Probably pushes the SST20 down on the list for the K9.3 CH1, but now I’m thinking the SST20 an interesting options for CH2.

XP-L HI are known for very high efficiency and a great beam without tintshift but only come in standard CRI. Some people are totally addicted to HighCRI, some people don’t even notice any difference between 70CRI and 95CRI. The best is to find out by yourself.

Also helpful. Maybe Hank will add the 2850K XP-L option for the K9.3 CH1. I have a D4V2 with the 4000K XP-L, and while I really like the clarity of the beam it’s feels just a touch harsh to me when on turbo.

E21A on the other side is the crème de la créme in terms of optimum color rendition

Okay okay, that’s really selling the E21A. Pushing these up my list for the CH1 option. Playing with the D4V2 I have (2000K, 2700K, 3500K, 4500K) I do notice that even the 4500K option feels a bit easier on the eyes than the XP-L 4000K. I really like the warmth of the E21A 2000K, but that one is the only R9050.

I wonder why the intl-outdoor website doesn’t call out the high CRI on E21A emitters like it does for the SST20 2700/4000 option.

Still haven’t figured out the K9.3 configuration(s) I want, but this definitely helps put the different options into perspective.

[Lux-Perpetua]

You could ask Hank for a custom config of the K9.3. I am quite confident he could also build one with XP-L HI 2850K. Maybe he won‘t even charge you any surcharge and if there is a surcharge, it’s always a very reasonable, fair amount for the extra efforts or additional material costs.

I wonder if he is going to also offer Osram KR CSLNM1.23 (red) for CH2. That could be an interesting, more throwy alternative to SST20-DR on the outer three emitters.

[BeardedRaleigh]

@Lux-Perpetua

You could ask Hank for a custom config of the K9.3. I am quite confident he could also build one with XP-L HI 2850K. Maybe he won‘t even charge you any surcharge and if there is a surcharge, it’s always a very reasonable, fair amount for the extra efforts or additional material costs.

I wonder if he is going to also offer Osram KR CSLNM1.23 (red) for CH2. That could be an interesting, more throwy alternative to SST20-DR on the outer three emitters.

I’m doing a tint mix on CH1 on one of mine, it’s an extra $10.

[jp9mm]

@BeardedRaleigh

@Lux-Perpetua

You could ask Hank for a custom config of the K9.3. I am quite confident he could also build one with XP-L HI 2850K. Maybe he won‘t even charge you any surcharge and if there is a surcharge, it’s always a very reasonable, fair amount for the extra efforts or additional material costs.

I wonder if he is going to also offer Osram KR CSLNM1.23 (red) for CH2. That could be an interesting, more throwy alternative to SST20-DR on the outer three emitters.

I’m doing a tint mix on CH1 on one of mine, it’s an extra $10.

How much mixing? i wonder if it cost same to do something silly like 3 groups of 2000-4000-5000

[BeardedRaleigh]

@jp9mm

@BeardedRaleigh

@Lux-Perpetua

You could ask Hank for a custom config of the K9.3. I am quite confident he could also build one with XP-L HI 2850K. Maybe he won‘t even charge you any surcharge and if there is a surcharge, it’s always a very reasonable, fair amount for the extra efforts or additional material costs.

I wonder if he is going to also offer Osram KR CSLNM1.23 (red) for CH2. That could be an interesting, more throwy alternative to SST20-DR on the outer three emitters.

I’m doing a tint mix on CH1 on one of mine, it’s an extra $10.

How much mixing? i wonder if it cost same to do something silly like 3 groups of 2000-4000-5000

I had him do a mix of 4000-5000 and if he has anything warmer to throw it in.

[middle_age_man]

I wonder if Hank will bring out a single channel K12 version.

[SteveK]

@jp9mm

Im leaning toward ch1- sst20 4k ch2-sst20 red
Still thinking about the button back light.

Does anyone know if button light is also controlled by Anduril binky modes? or is it only the rgb leds in the head?

I think it’s just a backlight. It would be great if it indicated battery charge level like on the K1 but alas.

[SteveK]

@Hank Wang

We offer made to order service, Red is one of the options which has served as visual example.

Is there any way to make the backlight for the switch indicate battery charge like in the K1??

[SteveK]

@Photon Master

I’m really struggling with deciding which emitters to get. What’s everyone else going to get?

I’m going to order three different lights (grey, green, and black) in different configurations

Color: Green
Ch 1: XP-L HI V2 5D 4000K
Ch 2: SST-20 Deep Red
Switch: Still agonizing

[SteveK]

@TexasToasted

I’m really digging that red switch back light. Gonna look all Christmas like on my green light

That’s the charge indicator like on the K1.

[SteveK]

@Helio2000K

3) “Blaster” [inspiration is a star wars storm trooper]
Color: Black
Switch: Red
CH1: XP-L 4000K
CH2: SST20 Deep red

I just ordered one just like that only with a green body cause I don’t have a green Hank Light yet. I asked him if there was any way to make the switch backlight function as a battery indicator like in the K1 but haven’t heard back yet. Maybe/maybe not. I’ll be good with red though.

[Photon_Master]

Thanks for the info on the Osram Lux! Did you decide on the build(s) you’ll get?

I decided to go with a black one with E21A 2000K + deep red and a red backlit button. Planning to use this for home - wife likes those annoying bright white bulbs everywhere

I’m trying to figure out a second light so I can justify the $22 fast shipping. I assume that applies to two lights. Tempted to go with an even mix of 2700 and 4000 for CH1 and Osram Yellow for the outside. I love that combo in the D18. But maybe I should get something different to expand my horizons

[Lux-Perpetua]

Since I have a D18 (SST20-DR 660nm), a black K9.3 (9x XP-L HI 4000K for CH1 + 3x SST20-DR 660nm for CH2, red backlight) and another KR4 (E21A 3500K) inbound already, my wallet is shedding tears like crazy. :(( If everything works out these should arrive pretty soon (fingers crossed). I hope to share some first impressions once they are here.

Should my wallet recover again next year and should the wifey ever stop ranting and moaning I plan for another dark grey K9.3 with 9x E21A 2000K and 3x Osram KY CSLNM1.FY with a yellow backlight. I could imagine these orange/amber colored Osram LEDs will add perfectly to the ultrawarmwhite Nichias, especially in fogged weather conditions or ambient indoor illumination. However, I am a bit torn if 3500K would look even better than 2000K, that's why I felt obliged to order another KR4 to see the difference...or to broaden the mind or expand my horizon as you noted so well. ;-) Sometimes it takes a bit more sugarcoating to justify the next purchase...lol. :-))