Fire extinguisher for LiIon batteries (Info)

HKJ · 2018-12-10T15:16:59.000Z

Fire extinguisher for LiIon batteries (Info)

My LiIon test are done in a ceramic container and that is my only defence against fire, this has been enough, because I have never seen a fire, even when batteries vents (There is no risk of sparks in my setup).

Then a Swedish guy asked me if I wanted a LiIon battery fire extinguisher, I could hardly say no.

To use it: Shake it, remove yellow lock, aim at fire, press.

It is not only for LiIon fires, it can also handle wood, paper, fabric, plastic and electric fires.

It can be used on live circuits with up to 1000 volts.

It must be keep at acceptable temperature, that is 5°C ~ 50°C, this means not in locations where it might freeze.

The bottle is about 31cm long including handle and 65mm in diameter excluding handle, it protrudes about 35mm to the side.

The bottle is one time use and cannot be refilled.

There is no maintenance on this, but there is a end date. With the date on the bottle it looks to be between 1 and 2 years lifetime. I asked about it and was told 3 years from manufacturer data, but that is because it has not been tested for more. They expect to increase the official lifetime soon.

The bracket to mount it.

It must be mounted vertically.

Notes

I got it from batteridoktorn.se in Sweden.

Approvals, brochure etc., can be found at www.firechampion.com

HKJ · 2018-12-10T15:22:11.000Z

I am not going to test it, I do not want to play with LiIon fire in my lab and doing it outside would mean taking a big power supply outdoor to ignite a battery.

I do also like it and will keep it near my test bench.

nottawhackjob · 2018-12-10T16:53:55.000Z

Well for sure don’t use water.

Butt keeping a bag of dry sand or table salt as a backup to the extinguisher prolly a good idear.

Appears btw that your extinguisher is copper powder based. Interesting.

Quora

What is the best way to put out an lithium ion battery fire in an electronic...

Answer (1 of 10): The danger with lithium ion when it comes to fires is that at high temperatures, the battery breaks down into both oxygen, and combustible fuel, meaning it creates its own fuel and oxidizer. A dangerous combination, explaining why...

pennzy · 2018-12-10T20:50:50.000Z

ABC no good?

Tom_Tom · 2018-12-11T05:16:02.000Z

Smoke and mirrors and snake-oil.

https://www.firechampion.com

“The Lith-Ex extinguishers are manufactured in Great Britain, which ensures complete control over the quality of the finished product. Together, with our technical expertise and support, Lith-Ex extinguishers are a safe and reliable choice.
The extinguishers use an environmentally friendly extinguishing agent called AVD which is made from naturally occurring vermiculite and is propelled using nitrogen.”

Vermiculite indeed. Useful for adding to potting compost, but that’s about it. A handful of sand would be a better choice, and no need to puff it about with N2.

At least a standard dry powder extinguisher has some technical merit and might actually put out some other types of fires, electrical and otherwise.

But, as I’ve said before, if a LiIon lets go on you, nothing is going to put it out. Just chuck on a bucket of sand, run away, and try not to breathe in the HF.

RobertB · 2018-12-11T05:28:27.000Z

nottawhackjob:

Well for sure don’t use water.

Butt keeping a bag of dry sand or table salt as a backup to the extinguisher prolly a good idear. :student:

Appears btw that your extinguisher is copper powder based. Interesting.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-way-to-put-out-an-lithium-ion-battery-fire-in-an-electronic-device

That article is mixing up lithium primary and lithium ion secondary cells. The lithium primary contains lithium metal which desolves in water to produce hydrogen. Lithium ion cells contain no lithium metal, so that won’t happen.

You use a ABC extinguisher for lithium ion. Class D for lithium metal only, according to Battery University. BU-304a: Safety Concerns with Li-ion - Battery University

Enderman · 2018-12-11T05:25:27.000Z

Cool, would be useful for all those of us with lipos.
It is very rare for a cylindrical cell to actually catch fire or explode, they usually just get hot and vent as you said.

Tom_Tom · 2018-12-11T05:40:44.000Z

Read this: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/safety_concerns_with_li_ion

Nowadays, the only cells with metallic lithium inside are primaries, such as the Energiser AAs, CR123s etc, and if you try taking one apart you may quickly learn what a metal fire is like, and no, water only makes it worse. It is pretty close to sodium and potassium in reactivity, if you remember chemistry demonstrations. Fun though.

LiIon are quite different, and not so scary. Nevertheless I wouldn’t want to be travelling in a ’plane with a few tonnes of them in the cargo hold.

nottawhackjob · 2018-12-11T06:57:10.000Z

Looks to me sand or salt is still the overall most effective, reliable*, and cheapest option no matter what type battery. Those extinguishers could come in handy I suppose for certain initial situations. I do have ABC’s up the ying yang all about though so I’m prepared there.

(*Reliable: I’ve had extinguishers fail to operate as expected. Age related malfunction, clogging, intermittent spray, etc. I don’t trust them to work everytime all that much basically.)

Now if I happen to have primaries, lipos, and lithium ions in the same relative close vicinity to one another (same room which I tend to do) and there’s already one smoke house a-commencing I sure as hell ain’t gonna try and figure out WHICH EXACT TYPE lithy or combination thereof is doing all the flaming, gassin, and a smokin. Watt am I supposed to do grab two different chem mix cans and play roulette extinguisher?

So a good sturdy Behren’s galvanized U.S. made 5 gallon pail, airtight with lid, filled with good ol’ dry sand, stands nearby. That and a small coffee can for more ‘precise’ flinging if necessary.

Yup that’s me. And then after said dump debacle I’m still running away till things settle down. Yeah the cleanup will be real fun too with either method.

Enderman · 2018-12-11T06:39:47.000Z

Honestly who needs fire extinguishers anyways, just buy a second house instead so if the first one burns down you move to the second one.

nottawhackjob · 2018-12-11T06:55:23.000Z

Enderman:

Honestly who needs fire extinguishers anyways, just buy a second house instead so if the first one burns down you move to the second one.

From what I’ve read about the prices of homes in Vancouver those Tuff Sheds they sell at Lowes and Home Depot may be your ‘second home’. :laughing:

Enderman · 2018-12-11T07:22:18.000Z

nottawhackjob:

Enderman:

Honestly who needs fire extinguishers anyways, just buy a second house instead so if the first one burns down you move to the second one.

From what I’ve read about the prices of homes in Vancouver those Tuff Sheds they sell at Lowes and Home Depot may be your ‘second home’. :laughing:

:’(

freeme · 2018-12-11T07:33:03.000Z

It will be useful for escooter and ebike owners.

firedome · 2018-12-11T07:51:57.000Z

Any recommendations for a respirator mask for Li toxic fumes while you try to put out the fire?