Flashlight Comparison: Convoy M21F vs. M21H - which is best?

CollectEverything · 2025-03-06T16:34:33.219Z

That would be nice

Lumenizator · 2025-03-06T16:57:28.458Z

I have the M21H and M21E.
For walking and indoors, the M21H is better. For outdoors, in a farm, for example, I prefer the M21E.

cannga · 2025-03-06T17:01:23.404Z

I have beamshots of both, but only with different LEDs. M21H with Nichia 219b 4500k and M21F with GT-FC40.

Some observations:

M21F has the classic reflector beam profile: hotspot for far vision, useful bright and large spill for near field vision. Great for a walk light. I have 70.3 Hi in a similar host, M21E. M21E throws further than M21F but spill is less bright. Button tactile feel and travel are, for me, terrible, but useable.
M21H with different TIRs: Classic TIR profile, hotspot with less bright and smaller area spill. I have no experience with 70.3, but with my 219b LED, not all the TIRs work well. The 3 and 8 degree TIR have donut holes. Great button feel and travel. Someone here (@FunkyRider86 ?) have experience with this M21H with Cree 70.x, albeit the domed one IIRC. Not all TIRs work with domed Cree 70.x either, IIRC.

CollectEverything · 2025-03-06T17:26:52.412Z

Do you have any outdoor beamshots of the M21H with GT-FC40? The die size is at least the same as the 70.3 Hi so maybe there would be some similarity.

dannyd555222 · 2025-03-06T17:40:00.815Z

Can you take some indoor beamshots at something colorful? Also, long hallway shots too

puglife2 · 2025-03-06T19:23:03.710Z

I’ve always preferred OP reflectors over TIR when walking outdoors… until a rabid raccoon from hell tried to bite my ankle

So now I use my XHP70.3 3000K R70 M26D with 3 degree TIR, which is roughly a M21H with 268000 tube instead of my beloved M3-C.

raccoon · 2025-03-06T19:27:42.053Z

puglife2:

a rabid raccoon from hell tried to bite my ankle

Yeah, sorry about that!

CollectEverything · 2025-03-06T19:32:07.996Z

How does the TIR help? Is the idea that the controlled spill damages your night vision less?

My brother has found no rabid coon, just perfectly normal skunks. One of his dogs (Ollie) has learned his lesson but the younger one, Fred, just has to check it out each time lol

puglife2 · 2025-03-06T19:57:30.224Z

You can see where you walk with a TIR optic but not very much with a reflector, I saw the raccoon at the last second.

You can see in this random M3-C beamshot I took from google, the feet are not well lit:

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And this one with a TIR optic (M21H) the feet are well lit.

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cannga · 2025-03-06T20:31:51.526Z

I think in second shot the feet are well lit because the light is pointed steeply downward. Hotspot is right in front of your feet.

When pointed at same angle, say both lights are pointed straight ahead (parallel to ground), in general (similar size lights, etc), reflectors tend to have larger spill and near field brightness than single TIRs IME. Single TIR optic that has similar throw to reflector has soft and small spill.

The exception are lights with multiple smaller TIRs.

puglife2 · 2025-03-06T20:51:39.056Z

It may look like it but it’s in front of him.

FunkyRider86 · 2025-03-06T21:30:41.864Z

Nah, try to use both in complete darkness and you will immediately realize that the faint wide spill of TIR is far superior to the reflector’s tunnel vision. Even when pointed to the same direction, you can still see right in front of you using a TIR light. The reflector light will give you bright spill in a narrow angle then complete darkness. Without sweeping the light up and down you will fumble and trip.

What’s even worse is that the bright spill of reflector destroys your night vision because the nearfield items are so brightly lit, your pupil constricts and will have a hard time see what the hotspot is point at.

raccoon · 2025-03-06T21:41:34.096Z

FunkyRider86:

The reflector light will give you bright spill in a narrow angle then complete darkness.

That’s what I like.

FunkyRider86:

the bright spill of reflector destroys your night vision

I’ve never had that problem.
Many people prefer reflector lights for throwers, and I prefer throwers (with reflectors.)
I currently avoid TIR lights like the plague.

Hoop · 2025-03-06T21:59:53.670Z

FunkyRider86:

The reflector light will give you bright spill in a narrow angle then complete darkness.

Most reflectors are not particularly tall relative to the diameter, so the spill angle is pretty wide, but there is still a sharp cutoff like you say:

image822×516 5.83 KB

Taller reflectors have a steeper spill angle:

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I think a small optical component could be glued to the center of the glass to create diffuse omni-directional spill. This would be worth experimenting with to fine tune the beam of reflector lights.

FunkyRider86 · 2025-03-07T00:05:21.357Z

That’s good. It just shows that we have wildly different preferences. I avoid reflector light like plague and mod any reflector light I have to TIR.

raccoon · 2025-03-07T00:27:45.231Z

Yep, different strokes for different folks.

macomako · 2025-07-06T05:43:03.961Z

IMG_93931227×1836 527 KB

QReciprocity42 · 2025-07-06T06:51:13.218Z

Hoop:

I think a small optical component could be glued to the center of the glass to create diffuse omni-directional spill. This would be worth experimenting with to fine tune the beam of reflector lights.

This is a really nice idea, I’ve done it with a too throwy TIR. It also occurs naturally on cold days when the water vapor in the reflector chamber condenses in the center of the lens. As long as the diffusion applied does not extend past the truncated center of the reflector, no throw is lost; even a decently bigger diffusion piece results in minimal loss of throw.

Teppka · 2025-07-06T08:46:53.525Z

I just love TIR optics

L4M4 · 2025-07-06T10:04:35.977Z

M21H + GT FC40 5000K + 24° or 36° TIR is the perfect neutral & natural light color.
I use it even for one of my fishtanks, because it’s so good.

The TIR gives it just enough of a change to make it better than any reflectorlight that I have or had with the FC40