Found a Quality Battery Resistance Tester

klrman · 2018-08-01T19:06:57.000Z

ActiveAl:

contactcr:

I think it’s worth mentioning that the resistance values from this $50 AC tester should not be compared to other chargers and things that give resistance. AC resistance measurements are pretty far apart from DC load resistance measurements. Article: BU-902: How to Measure Internal Resistance - Battery University So while this device is still useful it is not giving you the same measurement you might find in other sources. Also, I don’t think it is as good of an indication of the max discharge a battery can sustain. (like what HKJ or Mooch are giving you)

I read through the article you linked and it was helpful. Thanks. Fortunately, there is a lot you can do with AC resistance measurements, such as:

Measure new cell when you first get them, and then take periodic reading afterward to monitor their health.

Compare measurements against the battery's datasheet to determine if it is in specification. For example, the Samsung 30Q datasheet identifies a typical 1 kHz AC resistance specification of 13.13 ± 2 mΩ. The SM8124A I recently purchased measured my six Orbtronics 30Qs with an average resistance of about 11.5 mΩ (See Table 2.), which is within the datasheet specification. I was shocked that my $50 AC tester was able to provide measurements with this seeming accuracy. Perhaps this is a one-off fluke.

Compare a known battery with one that is suspected of being a fake. For example, if a battery measures considerably more AC resistance than a real 30Q, then it is probably not a 30Q.

Update: I saved this post too quickly and had to make edits. Thanks!

I finally got 4 x 30Q button tops from Bangood today after waiting for over two months. They all test at 12.0 IR with the SM8124A tester so they are real samsungs!

Zebretta · 2018-08-10T22:40:00.000Z

Mine finally arrived today.

It’s the newer 4 prong model.

Someone said the measurements you get with this meter are not the same you get with your Battery Charger / Testers.

Yeah, I found that to be very true.

How would you convert between the two in order to determine if your charger/tester gives readings consistent with the SM8124A?

klrman · 2018-08-11T02:24:19.000Z

They measure differently so there probably is not a reliable conversion method. The SM8124A should give results close to the battery data sheets which use the same method as this meter to determine resistance which is a good start to see if you got originals or fakes. What I have found so far is that if I add 60% to SM8124A readings of protected cells, they match up with the battery charger IR readings. So far, different types of protected cells from different companies still seem to be 60% more or close enough across the board but for unprotected cells like the Samsung 30Qs, the difference was 200% higher with the battery charger than this tester.

Zebretta · 2018-08-11T17:10:17.000Z

klrman:

They measure differently so there probably is not a reliable conversion method. The SM8124A should give results close to the battery data sheets which use the same method as this meter to determine resistance which is a good start to see if you got originals or fakes. What I have found so far is that if I add 60% to SM8124A readings of protected cells, they match up with the battery charger IR readings. So far, different types of protected cells from different companies still seem to be 60% more or close enough across the board but for unprotected cells like the Samsung 30Qs, the difference was 200% higher with the battery charger than this tester.

Good stuff there. Thanks!

Zebretta · 2018-08-11T18:54:02.000Z

BlueSwordM:

It’s actually quite easy to calculate DC internal resistance.

The problem is that you need a battery holder that does not have piss poor resistance like you see with the cheap ones on eBay and Aliexpress.

If you just want, you just need some power resistor of a determined load, a multimeter, a soldering iron, and some 18AWG wire, and perhaps some brass buttons.

1. Solder one end of 30cm 18AWG wire to 2x brass buttons for nice contacts.

2. Solder the other end to the legs of a 5 Ohm resistor.

3. Wire a switch through the wires.

4. Clamp the brass buttons to the cell with the switch off.

5. Put your multimeter on voltage reading mode.

6. Measure the open circuit voltage of the cell. For example, it will be 4.2V.

7. Flip the switch, and measure the voltage of the cell instantly, then flip the switch again. The noted voltage will be 3,9V

8. Do math:

ΔV = voltage delta = 0,3V
R = 5r = resistance used
V = cell voltage = 4,2V
VL= Voltage under load = 3,9V
C= current flowing

V-VL = ΔV= 4,2V-3,9V = 0,3V

C= VL/R = 3,9V/5t = 0,78A

Internal resistance = ΔV/C = 0,3V/0,78A = 0,38R = 380 milliohm

Yeah, that is the real internal resistance of a cell, and how you calculate it.

Did you build a rig for this purpose?
Any pics?

BlueSwordM · 2018-08-11T19:04:57.000Z

I did build something like this before, but I used bypassed spring holders instead of brass buttons. That was very hard to do though, unlike the more refined method I presented to you guys.

However, now that I have made my Beryllium copper springs, I am going to do one that is much simpler to do for everybody, and is much easier to set up.

Zebretta · 2018-08-11T19:18:36.000Z

BlueSwordM:

I did build something like this before, but I used bypassed spring holders instead of brass buttons. That was very hard to do though, unlike the more refined method I presented to you guys.

However, now that I have made my Beryllium copper springs, I am going to do one that is much simpler to do for everybody, and is much easier to set up.

Awesome. I’d like to make one. But since you know what you’re doing I’ll wait to see how you did it.

klrman · 2018-08-11T21:27:26.000Z

BlueSwordM:

+1 I forgot to mention. The resistance measurements are at AC 1kHz sine wave. So while accurate, the resistance numbers are often measured to low. A 4-wire constant current tester is the only way to measure the real DC load resistance measurement.

When you decide to use your new springs to build your new tester, it won't test IR the same as the SM8124A will it, but instead the second method you mentioned above to give real IR readings?

Zebretta · 2018-08-13T10:13:49.000Z

I have doubts about this device.
I need to do some tests using the DC Calculation method to verify but I’m getting results that aren’t consistent.

That said, I removed the cable separator because the leads were too short to get to both sides of my batteries.
Does anyone know if there is some magic in that simple plastic separator that could affect the readings?

Lux-Perpetua · 2018-12-09T20:24:02.000Z

Today, I tested some new cells with my SM8124A. This is the impedance I measured:

Format	Name	Impedance (mΩ)
21700	Samsung 30T	6.0
21700	Samsung 40T	7.4
21700	Samsung 50E	22.0
21700	Sofirn 4.000mAh	13.6
20700	Acebeam 4.250mAh	21.6
18650	Sony VTC6	11.8
18650	Samsung 25R	12.2
18650	Samsung 30Q	12.5
18650	Imalent MRB186-P30	19.3
18650	Wuben 2.600mAh	23.4
18650	Sofirn 2.600mAh	41.9
18650	Sofirn 3.000mAh	45.2
18650	Xanes 2.600mAh	45.3

d_t_a · 2018-12-10T02:04:59.000Z

Lux-Perpetua:

Today, I tested some new cells with my SM8124A. This is the impedance I measured:

Format Name Impedance (mΩ)

21700 Samsung 30T 6.0

21700 Samsung 40T 7.4

21700 Samsung 50E 22.0

21700 Sofirn 4.000mAh 13.6

20700 Acebeam 4.250mAh 21.6

18650 Sony VTC6 11.8

18650 Samsung 25R 12.2

18650 Samsung 30Q 12.5

18650 Imalent MRB186-P30 19.3

18650 Wuben 2.600mAh 23.4

18650 Sofirn 2.600mAh 41.9

18650 Sofirn 3.000mAh 45.2

18650 Xanes 2.600mAh 45.3

Thanks for sharing! That would be a useful baseline reference.

I only have a few of those batteries from your list. I don't have the SM8124A, but instead got the YR1030. I wonder how different the measurements taken by the SM8124A compared to the YR1030...

klrman · 2018-12-10T02:51:34.000Z

Nice chart thanks. My Samsung 30Q from Illumn read 10 and 30Q from Banggood read 12 so close enough.

Lux-Perpetua · 2018-12-10T06:29:35.000Z

FWIW, it takes a lot of patience and two calm hands to get useful values with the SM8124A.
Especially, with button top batteries it’s quite a nightmare to align the probe correctly in order to get useful information.
I guess it’s the same with the YR1030 from Vapcell. They had it for a very decent price on Black Friday. Unfortunately, I forgot to buy one as I would have liked to verify my values with a second device.

klrman · 2018-12-10T07:09:47.000Z

Major PITA to align the probes on button tops. I use my desk lamp with the magnifying glass otherwise it takes too long.

Lux-Perpetua · 2018-12-10T07:16:22.000Z

LOL…“PITA”…that’s exactly what it feels like.
Later on, I try to amend my chart with values I took from my 26650s (Shockli 5.500mhAh, Keeppower 6.000mAh, Dolidada Fake PLB-55-As, Thrunite 5.000mAh, etc.).

Lux-Perpetua · 2018-12-10T13:04:43.000Z

I have now added some more batteries. All cells were measured in new, unused condition. However, the 26650 cells I bought had some differences between them.

Format	Name	Impedance (mΩ)
21700	Samsung 30T	6.0
21700	Samsung 40T	7.4
21700	Samsung 50E	22.0
21700	Sofirn 4.000mAh	13.6
20700	Acebeam 4.250mAh	21.6
18650	Sony VTC6	11.8
18650	Samsung 25R	12.2
18650	Samsung 30Q	12.5
18650	Imalent MRB186-P30	19.3
18650	Wuben 2.600mAh	23.4
18650	Sofirn 2.600mAh	41.9
18650	Sofirn 3.000mAh	45.2
18650	Xanes 2.600mAh	45.3

klrman · 2018-12-16T04:41:48.000Z

Here's my list so far. Need to find the data sheet but I think the 30Q's from ff are out of spec!

BlueSwordM · 2018-12-16T02:54:09.000Z

Yeah. That Illumn cell is either a beast, or something is wrong.

I don’t think the FF cell is bad though. The maximum internal resistance of a 30Q with AC testing is 26mOhms.

klrman · 2018-12-16T02:57:03.000Z

Thanks, saves me looking for the sheet! Tested all the illumn 30Q's too many times and always 9.

d_t_a · 2018-12-16T15:21:15.000Z

klrman:

Here’s my list so far. Need to find the data sheet but I think the 30Q’s from ff are out of spec!

Thanks for mentioning that 30Qs from Fireflies.

I also got 3pcs 30Qs bundled with the Fireflies ROT66 (I am unable to purchase 30Qs without flashlights [bare batteries from any foreign online store cannot ship to my country, except if inside a flashlight], so all my 30Qs are only purchased when I purchase a flashlight, either the “BLF A6+30Q” or the “S42+30Q” bundle from BG).

The 30Qs I got from BG have lower IR than the 30Q I got from Fireflies… Will do some measurements again. Forgot the figures but there are noticeably higher IR, measured either using the MC3000’s IR test or with the YR1030 battery resistance tester.