[♛ FreemeGB] Haikelite MT09R 3x XHP70.2 25,000lm & 3x XHP35 Hi 6500LM Flashlight Group Buy -【 ACTIVE 】

[Jarms]

Interested in 3x xhp35-hi, hoping driver issues get sorted out soon. Wish I could order without the driver and get separate driver made by TA off BLF forum

[Agro]

Seems another member has a problem with their MT09R more than glowing:

I need a new driver for MT09R (2018), my flashlight is dead

Hi. My HaikeLite MT09R dead after 3 times to work: it’s can’t be off. [HaikeLite MT09R can't off (dead)] Banggood say: “we can determine that the product has manufacturing defect”, but item has delivered over one month - It’s not our problem. Where i can buy new driver?

[freeme (youtube.com/@1thedeals)]

Saw the clip. I will ask Swi to take note.

@Agro

Seems another member has a problem with their MT09R more than glowing: I need a new driver for MT09R (2018), my flashlight is dead

[square74]

Hello,
I´ve one Problem.

I had planned to mod my MT09r with another driver.
I opened the Battery-Tube and removed the Boards (both: contact board between Head and Tube and second board in Tail (rotating)).
Now I misplaced the boards and I don´t find them…

Is it possible to buy new boards from Haikelite / Banggood or complete Tube (Blue)?

thanks.

[scr79423]

interested in xhp70.2

[scr79423]

Hi, does anybody know if the latest version of the MT09R XHP35 hi uses the D4 bin?

[JasonWW]

@scr79423

Hi, does anybody know if the latest version of the MT09R XHP35 hi uses the D4 bin?

You’d have to ask Haikelite. There’s no way for average person to determine what bin they are using.

Maybe Haikelite has said in the past, but I don’t remember.

Wait, is D4 the highest output for the xhp35-HI? It’s highly unlikely they are using the D4. Haikelite tends to not buy the highest bin leds.

[scr79423]

but didn’t HL use P2 bin for their XHP70.2 MT09R? if not then how do people get readings of 18k lm stock, 21k lm after spring bypass?

[Texas_Ace]

@scr79423

but didn’t HL use P2 bin for their XHP70.2 MT09R? if not then how do people get readings of 18k lm stock, 21k lm after spring bypass?

Those were the lights I modded I am pretty sure. I think the NW version were around an N2 or N4 bin but the other tints were much lower.

[mattadores]

@JasonWW

@scr79423

Hi, does anybody know if the latest version of the MT09R XHP35 hi uses the D4 bin?

You’d have to ask Haikelite. There’s no way for average person to determine what bin they are using.

Maybe Haikelite has said in the past, but I don’t remember.

Wait, is D4 the highest output for the xhp35-HI? It’s highly unlikely they are using the D4. Haikelite tends to not buy the highest bin leds.

Can I ask a question about the “bin” itself?

1-what is it?
2-is it a literal translation (an oversized bin in some warehouse that contains the different batches of particular leds)

[Texas_Ace]

They “bin” the LED’s into different performance categories. Like CPU’s not all LED’s will preform the same so they separate them into different “bins” so that when someone orders all the LED’s will be roughly the same.

They bin them both by tint and lumen output and some manufactures also bin by voltage as well.

You would not want a low preforming LED right next to a high preforming LED, it would look really bad.

Product binning

[BlueSwordM]

If you are good with computers, think about binning.

Say you have a 3,0GHz CPU at 50W power draw.

A very low bin may do 3,0GHz at 50W.
A low bin may do 3,1GHz at 50W.
An average bin may do 3,15GHz at 50W.
A better than average bin may do 3,25GHz at 50W.
A high binned may do 3,3GHz at 50W.
A very high binned may do 3,4GHz at 50W.
A top binned may do 3,5GHz at 50W.

[Skylight]

Interesting explanation! Could you please also explain the difference between a XHP70.2 P20E5 and a XHP70.2 P240E? They have the same color (4000K) but the E5 is quite a bit cheaper than the 40E. Would there be any visible difference between this two?

[Texas_Ace]

That is a complicated question. I even called cree about that one but they were not able to answer it.

After a lot of searching it is basically how they bin them.

The E5 is an easywhite binning and the 40E is a 5 step binning IIRC. 40h is a 2 or 3 step and costs even more.

Far as one being better then the other. If you are using them in bulk, then the closer binned versions will be closer in tint and output so they will look the same across thousands of LED’s.

For our uses they are basically ways to try different options and see which you like best.

I will generally order 1 of each to start and see which I prefer.

[mattadores]

Let me see if I got this:
Binning is essentially the production lot code assigned to each production run. The error rate of leds and semiconductors is so high that each production run must be identified. The manufacturer uses the emitters specifications as a baseline but different production runs can produce variations in tint and output + others.

For low volume users such as BLF modders it gives the ability to pick and choose based on the bins specifications

For mass producers it allows them to purchase nearly identical emitters by using only a single bin.

I’m assuming that within a bin itself there can even be variations?

[Texas_Ace]

Yes, that is basically it. For cree and many other LED manufacture there is usually a ~7% variance within a given bin.

[Skylight]

Thank you very much, Texas_Ace, for an easy explanation on this complicated subject. It seems you saved me a lot of research time. As long as the performance and the tint is not affected that much I think I will go for the cheaper one (2.5$ cheaper on Arrow!).
mattadores, if you own a multi-emitter flashlight with a very low moonlight mode you can look at the leds and see that there are different brightnesses even within bins. For example, I looked at my BLF Q8 (only on the lowest moonlight setting ) and saw that one led of the XPL V6’s is noticeably brighter than the others. At higher levels you will notice nothing, of course.

[mattadores]

Thanks guys! I love learning about this stuff.

I’ll take a look at some of my multi emitters but I know for a fact my biggest one the DX80 doesn’t have any mode where I could tell. lol well at least without welding goggles! My MT03 should be suited for the task though

[JasonWW]

@mattadores

Let me see if I got this:
Binning is essentially the production lot code assigned to each production run. The error rate of leds and semiconductors is so high that each production run must be identified. The manufacturer uses the emitters specifications as a baseline but different production runs can produce variations in tint and output + others.

This is not quite right. When Cree makes a production run of 70.2 LEDs for instance, every single one will be slightly different. So each LED is tested as it comes off the assembly line very quickly by a machine that applies a specific voltage to it and then it has advanced optical sensors that can identify the brightness and tint of the LED.

Then Cree divides up these LED’s by brightness and tint. If you look at the data sheet for the 70.2 you will see the range of brightness and tint for each bin.

If we look at the brightness bins we have to understand that Cree needs to decide what range each emitter needs to have. They also don’t want too many bins. So they have P2, N4, N2, M4, M2, K4, K2 and J4. That’s 8 brightness levels and each level is roughly 7% higher or lower than the bin next to it.

They measure the brightness by applying 6v and 2.1A at both 25°C and at 85°C.
The middle point, in lumens, from a N4 bin at 85°C is 1710 lumens.
The middle point of the N2 is 1590.
The middle point of the M4 is 1485, etc…

So when the led is tested on the line and it puts out 1560 lumens it will be tossed into the N2 bin because it is closer to the N2 than the M4.

So any particular bin (just talking about brightness) is going contain a range of brightnesses. They are all fairly close, within 7. (Keep in mind that Cree only guarantees the brightness bin to be within 14. So they give themselves some wiggle room in case they bin it incorrectly)

So you can have 2 Leds, an N4 that is near the bottom of it range and an N2 that can be near the top of its range. Both will be almost the same brightness.

Then with the Tint, Cree uses an Ansi standard chromaticity regions chart which is divided into a lot of sections. Each section has a range of tints. Like a 1D falls between 6100K and 6400K. A 1C also falls into that 6100K to 6400K range but are divided yet again by how high or low they are from the BBL, etc… This is too complicated, but you get the point. Cree uses at least 28 different tint bins.

So lots of different bins for both brightness and tint. 8 x 28 = 224 combinations.

You can learn a lot just by looking over the Cree 70.2 data sheet. Here is a link to download it. I hope this makes sense. :+1:

Also, keep in mind that these emitters were not designed to be used in flashlights. They’re typically used in street lights and in home interior lighting. Both applications have multiple LEDs all in close proximity to each other so it’s very important you have a similar brightness and color for them all. Each bin is sold by the real which contains 1,000 LEDs. These LEDs will be from various batches.

[mattadores]

@JasonWW

@mattadores

Let me see if I got this:
Binning is essentially the production lot code assigned to each production run. The error rate of leds and semiconductors is so high that each production run must be identified. The manufacturer uses the emitters specifications as a baseline but different production runs can produce variations in tint and output + others.

This is not quite right. When Cree makes a production run of 70.2 LEDs for instance, every single one will be slightly different. So each LED is tested as it comes off the assembly line very quickly by a machine that applies a specific voltage to it and then it has advanced optical sensors that can identify the brightness and tint of the LED.

Then Cree divides up these LED’s by brightness and tint. If you look at the data sheet for the 70.2 you will see the range of brightness and tint for each bin.

If we look at the brightness bins we have to understand that Cree needs to decide what range each emitter needs to have. They also don’t want too many bins. So they have P2, N4, N2, M4, M2, K4, K2 and J4. That’s 8 brightness levels and each level is roughly 7% higher or lower than the bin next to it.

They measure the brightness by applying 6v and 2.1A at both 25°C and at 85°C.
The middle point, in lumens, from a N4 bin at 85°C is 1710 lumens.
The middle point of the N2 is 1590.
The middle point of the M4 is 1485, etc…

So when the led is tested on the line and it puts out 1560 lumens it will be tossed into the N2 bin because it is closer to the N2 than the M4.

So any particular bin (just talking about brightness) is going contain a range of brightnesses. They are all fairly close, within 7. (Keep in mind that Cree only guarantees the brightness bin to be within 14. So they give themselves some wiggle room in case they bin it incorrectly)

So you can have 2 Leds, an N4 that is near the bottom of it range and an N2 that can be near the top of its range. Both will be almost the same brightness.

Then with the Tint, Cree uses an Ansi standard chromaticity regions chart which is divided into a lot of sections. Each section has a range of tints. Like a 1D falls between 6100K and 6400K. A 1C also falls into that 6100K to 6400K range but are divided yet again by how high or low they are from the BBL, etc… This is too complicated, but you get the point. Cree uses at least 28 different tint bins.

So lots of different bins for both brightness and tint. 8 x 28 = 224 combinations.

You can learn a lot just by looking over the Cree 70.2 data sheet. Here is a link to download it. I hope this makes sense. :+1:

Also, keep in mind that these emitters were not designed to be used in flashlights. They’re typically used in street lights and in home interior lighting. Both applications have multiple LEDs all in close proximity to each other so it’s very important you have a similar brightness and color for them all. Each bin is sold by the real which contains 1,000 LEDs. These LEDs will be from various batches.

Thank you for the detailed response. Makes more sense to me. I initially suspected they would have to check each led and sort based on the actual results but then thought about the production speeds and how much it would cost and it just didn’t seem feasible. Looks like necessity required the innovation which is cool. Lol I can imagine the high need for the 14% range due to the possibility of re-binning.