2061

Dale,

Don’t let it get to you, most everyone knows what an asset you have been to this community and the efforts you have put forth in building, modding and testing.

You along with a number of others who are still here doing what you do and doing it well.

I for one appreciate everytime you test something or give advice on something as I am still a newbie at this stuff and slowly learning, I would give anything to have the knowledge you do in the flashlight world.

I think even the ones questioning know these things but get caught up in ” THIS was promised but I am getting only this” if the people building the lights messed up or took shortcuts after You, Krono and the rest of the test team ok’ed the lights, then that is out of the control of any of you guys and everyone here should understand that and learn to deal with it accordingly.

As one who has been through what it takes to do a group buy, I fully understand every angle of it I think and have that much more appreciation for what is going on here. I think in the end, there will be a fix or an answer as I am confident Krono is working on it as we speak as to why the lights are not up to standards that were approved.

2062

No problem,
here, have a look at this comparison… this was immediately after I got the last Production sample on the 28th of December. Notice the amperage on the 3 lights, then follow over to the right and look at the lumens output. This kind of thing happens all the time, bizarre sometimes, but it’s what they measured.

Edit: Oh yeah, look all the way to the right at the lux numbers. As of tonight, my now modified D80 is doing 72.25Kcd. :slight_smile:

2063

Yes I saw that earlier but still it is just the one sample you got and has nothing to do with any of the other 999 lights that were built and distributed to everyone else. It is your findings on one light onlyyyyyyyyy out of the whole batch.

I am still waiting on my D80 to arrive and i may get it and have (example only) 1.5 amps and 400 lumens but is that the fault of your testing? NO!!! is it the fault of Krono’s spec’s? NO!!! It is what it is and out of anyones hands other than communications between the organizer of the GB the team advising him (or her) and the finding of the particular lights sent for sample and evaluation. These lights may have been “hand picked” by the company out of hundreds or they may have just grabbed a sample and when everything was ok’ed then they started running everything as fast as they could and QC went out the window after the OK was given.

Like I say I am sure in the end there will be a fix or something that will have at least 99% pleased with what we have. It is a good light no matter the little problems that some are having and it shouldn’t be put on anyones shoulders other than the company making the lights.

Kind of like going deer hunting , you cant always come home with a trophy because it just isn’t going to happen each time you go out, but you can live with a decent one until next time or until the circumstances permit and everything falls into place for that perfect moment and then everything was worth the wait.

2064

Robo,

A really good and comprehensive post - Thank you!

OTOH, Dale, I think that you just talk too damn much!…As per a previous agreement, for those that are not aware…

… Dale is doing a Giveaway when he hits 10,000 posts!!!

Is that not Good or what?

Just as an addendum, I pretty much think that you can Trust what Dale says… I do!

But since the drawing is random, kissing up will get me nowhere. -Oh well, <smack!>

:wink:

-Chuck

2065

Group buys can’t always (ever?) meet expectations. No matter how much effort goes into improving the specs, the manufacturer(s) can find ways to cheapen the product. Any fault must adhere to either manufacturing, QC or shipping damage. I hope I win the lottery and get a good ’un.

2066

I saw a lot of this process too being included in the team. It is exhausting trying to get them to do what we ask, so many communication issues, always takes 10x longer than you think it should, and in the end the manufacturer still may do something inexplicably different than what was specified (like the tube length) or make a last minute change we didn’t ask for (happened). Its completely not the members here fault, they struggled against this. Almost certainly nothing to do with the reseller/distributor either who doesn’t seem to know next to anything about the lights, it all has to be explained. How to get the correct translated feedback back to the manufacturer is the problem.

For low voltage protection, the light dims noticeably, I don’t see why someone would not notice this, so I dont see low voltage protection as necessary, but I guess this was also not emphasized enough and not retested that they had included it in each version. In fact I like the current option to run it to the ground if I need it. But yes, the original driver had a sort of LVP which caused a pulsation a few times, and then turned off. Why this was taken out? Who really knows. Inexplicable since it was something I talked about liking as an alternative LVP since you could turn it back on for a while again, unlike in some drivers. Probably another thing not sufficiently emphasized or communicated to the reseller/distributer, who not quite correctly communicated it to the manufacturer. What can we do about it? Pretty much nothing at this point. Oops. Remember, trying to get this right tested everyone’s patience involved, and for what? $20? And $20 in value in a light not cash. I spent wayyy more than $20 in time just reading the messages about this light, let alone replying, and the constant delays, mis-communications, shipping issues, etc etc.

Max Amps they recorded as higher than most of us are getting. But the why is still under question, however we have several factors: Vf is different for different emitter batches which can cause variation, Dale’s equipment is better than most of ours, who will not measure as high typically. So all in all if its 3.65A — thats what I remember I was getting in the original light, with annoying blinkies surrounding a turbo mode (why I have no idea), and no tint choices with a blueish tinted who knows what, for about the same price. So, its still an improvement for certain, not what we had hoped is all. Still worth it without 4+A for a good little light. Much better than a 2.7A you could get in a Convoy.

If you have concerns you must vent, I’d try to find a way to express displeasure to the manufacturer, that’s the most appropriate target you can get. Or you can burn out the people doing the group buys, or wrestle with CS of the distributer/seller…think about it, which has the most effect? Targeting group buy people is easiest, but can’t do a thing except hurt you in the end as they are the ones trying to get things right, and essentially for free because they like lights. Yes Dale and Kronological could benefit indirectly with other projects, but its not worth it for this. I sure dont benefit, neither did the other testers, and two others got so burnt out/frustrated they haven’t responded in months, one asked to be removed so he didn’t even have to hear about the light anymore. Next, the CS of the seller is less easy, but might have more effect, IF in fact somehow the higher ups get the message from the CS people who can hardly understand your messages. So really…there is only one logical target if you want to do more than preach to the choir and burn them out or fight a somewhat hopeless battle that nobody with power will ever see the results of. And as for that last target, they seemingly put this project on the back burner, being such a small project, so I don’t think they are going to care so much, nor are you going to have an easy time getting to anyone with power there unless you speak Chinese: it seemed lucky for all involved to get the manufacturers attention at all. It was their design they were already selling keep in mind, most wouldn’t consider making changes for any small group really. All in all I see its tough and frustrating dealing with China, and unless you have the financing and can put some teeth in place, you are likely to get something at least slightly different than what you wanted. So, if you want a good little light which is better than the original, for a good price, but not quite what we wanted, order away.

While I have not received a final version yet, it looks like yet again its not going to be the max A we hoped for, if that’s necessary, don’t order it. Its still a step up from before, and I still like it. I still want a 5A version, its worth it for the price. I even use both my 3.65A 3C and even 1A or whatever the heck that original blue tint is on occasion. If low voltage protection is what’s important, go order the original version, and get a crazy UI. Or wait and get the set of BLF lights being worked on X6 v2 for higher amps. Either way, its still a light worth it for the price if you like lights and don’t have one…I’ll still get one, even though I have 4 now: my original version, two different samples, and hopefully a final version not quite lost in the mail somewhere…

2067

Do you maybe know protected cell which fits in this FL.
I’m asking for cells that are availabe from GB, BG…, not from US.

My NCR18650B are too long, FL does not work. But samsung 30q are ok.

One more question.
Do we have, know run times for this FL.

Thank you

2068

The tint on the D80 is 1A right?

2069

woohoo!! I finally received mine today! I only had a half dead UltraFire battery to try it out and its still brighter than all my other flashlights. I can’t wait to see what it does with a decent battery. Thank you Group Buy PPL! :party:

2070

.

WARNING!

Only Half Dead?

Where did you get them?… I have long been looking for a really good UltraBlast like that.

Just Kidding - Please People!; Don’t EVER let Friends play with such stuff, unless you are good with having a FIRE!

In most cases, not really… but

Actually, the ones that are really Genuine “Ultrafire” are ‘probably’ safe to use, but FAKES Abound. - In any case, it will be less than 3,000mHa or less. if it is real, but really less than this.

You have been warned.

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/UltraFire%20BRC18650%203000mAh%20(Red-silver)%20UK.html

If I may quote HKJ; a noted battery expert:

“Conclusion

The genuine UltraFire batteries are not very good with very different capacity and problems with the protection circuit, the DX version is better (At least the ones I got). None of the batteries are close to the rated capacity.
The internal resistance is also way too high for the genuine batteries.
I will rate these batteries as BAD, the DX ones are acceptable for a cheap battery, but because there is many different UltraFire 3000mAh on the market, I would not trust them.”

“Conclusion

Both types of UltraFires are bad cells. The 6000mAh is made to be a cheap/fake cell for consumer usage with minimal protection, the 3000mAh cell is made from old battery pack cells and when you buy multiple cell they may be different, even if they have the same wrapper.”

Nuff Said.

But of course you already know this - I only replied because someone new to the hobby may be reading this…

Thank you,

-Chuck

2071

lol, yep. But this is all I have until my Samsung Battery comes in. Hopefully tomorrow with a new xtar charger. I couldn’t resist trying the light out as soon as it came in, who could blame me? :party:

edit: anyways, if it did catch fire while charging I could close the store, as I’m stuck here at work.

2072

I’ve received my 3A and I was surprised how compact it was. I’m more used for a C8 form factor for a thrower so it’s a change.
Finish on the light is very good for that price, thread are a little loose but all good with the oring.
Now I’m waiting for the 5A to become available.

2073

Finally got some time to change the 3C emitter to a dedomed XM-L2(probably T6…). Now I get 4.4A at the tail with HE2.

I think this is a great flashlight even before the emitter change. The low voltage warning dont bother me, I actually did not think it had that because the stock driver do not.

Thanks for this fantastic group buy and Dale, keep up the good work :slight_smile:

Now it is time to solder back the 3C emitter!

2074

Dale,
I am sorry you felt the pressure of all of the questions, but I am thankful that you took the time to interact with my posts. I know you don’t think one amp is a big deal, but it is a big deal to me. There are many threads in this forum that read something like this, “Moon Light Special with 12 chips only getting 2.7amps”. In fact, that is an actual thread title that I wrote. I got many suggestions and many people interacting with me. The result was, I now have a moonlight special that is giving me 3.7amps. I was thankful for all of the help I received for 1amp.

My questions here are not to attack this light or especially anyone who put forth the effort required to make it happen! So as it is, I feel helpless as I have no idea what to do or how to get answers and that is why I post my questions. It’s frustrating when no one responds, but you responded, as for the others, I can see I wasn’t very patient. Part of it is that I didn’t want my questions to get lost as the thread moves on.

Anyway, I am reporting that my amp and lumen readings are not as advertised. If this is to be expected, then I will keep quiet, if not I would hope we(all Blf d80 owners) could work together to find out what is going on.

2075

I did a Low Voltage test last night on my BLF D80, and wow, it takes a long time to go from 3.1v down to 2.5v. By 2.6v-2.7v, turbo level is drawing about 0.05A - half of the lowest mode, so it's pretty clear the cell is done. I drained a Samsung 15M cell (1500 mAh) down just below 2.5v (~2.49A) in the light, and at that point you can easily stare at the lit LED, and I'd say it made a nice moon mode level, maybe about 0.03A draw or so. I then put the 15M cell in the NiteCore i4 charge, and it charged up fine.

I didn't have anything to compare to, but was wondering if they were dropping amps intentional at low voltage, similar to what Dr. Jones does in guppydrv and luxdrv for example, and many of his other drivers. He describes it as: "it will not switch off and leave you in complete darkness", here: http://drjones.nerdcamp.net.

2076

broken, I think it is
Can’t be sure because they didn’t list anything about it when they sent it. Might be lower because it doesn’t seem to have any of the blue/white tint that a 1A typically has. It’s actually one of the most white XM-L2 I’ve seen, which I like.
I’ve also got a D80 sample with one of the most orange tints I’ve ever seen, go figure.

2077

It should be stated in the OP that protected batteries like ncr18650B do not fit!!!

2078

No need to keep quiet as much as re-reading our own posts (before posting). Because we cannot see facial expression or hear tone it can be very difficult for those that work on these group buys to not perceive some posts as complaints and in some cases as insults. Maybe an opening such as: " Help me get more out of my light" may be a solution - dunno.

Many do not understand that it is easy to burn out and say "never again". I know I almost did with the BLF A6. So far and thankfully many of us GB organizers eventually pull it together and return to do something that that we truly enjoy doing. (Just as an FYI, and no details can be given yet, there are plans for a whole slew of new offerings coming ;) )With language barriers and even typical mass production issues (of any product) there are bound to be differences and even some defects that are not the fault of the GB organizers or any vendor. That is the nature of mass production. To avoid that would require hand crafting every light and then there would be no way that we would touch a light for $20. No matter what, and everyone needs to remember, these group buy lights are better than than the stock versions and we here at BLF get first crack at them.

For your light I would suggest patience, diligence, and conversation. As enough people get their lights in hand a solution for your light's problem will surface.

2079

But how would the team know that LS would shorten the tubes, without consulting us, or even have the courtesy to supply that information?
We used the D80 host to build the BLF, expecting it to match, well guess what ?! THEY (LS) changed the parameters midstream !
What begs the question is, as flashlight manufacturers, how did they arrive to that measurement, or don’t they have batteries to test fitting ?
ABSOLUTELY NOT team Krono’s fault, who has no control at what happened in a factory thousands of miles away. And our guys have done due diligence persistently throughout. I still think they deserve much credit for the perseverance in bringing this about, and for the bar-raising design thought that went into it.
Thank you for all the hard work.

edit - I do have a suggestion for later endeavours though. Do publish the specs committed for production, and should products received not up to par, it can be used for PayPal claims.

2080

received mine today. Nice lights, but i was very disappointed because of that short tube. I don’t have unprotected batterys, but attleast there was little surprise inside second one.