HDS Rotary and Folomov 10440 comparisons

jon_slider · 2019-02-09T22:43:57.000Z

From the ridiculous to the sublime:

Compare and Contrast HDS Rotary w 3500k Nichia 219b, to Folomov EDC C1 with 3000k Nichia E21a

I recently received two new lights with Warm White LEDs, in totally different battery size, one 10440, one 16340. There are vast differences in the UI, size, materials, and ergonomics. This is not a which is better, it is more of a what is similar, what is different, exploration. (note Folomov in these pics has had the paint removed)

commonality
LiIion
Warm Color Temperature
Strobe, SOS, Beacon
Tailswitch
direct access to Maximum
direct access to Minimum
hat clip option
light gets dimmer when battery goes below 50%
light will turn off if LiIon battery goes below 3v
EMP Proof!

differences
HDS is a Rotary
HDS can also use Lithium Primary, Folomov cannot.

HDS has more mode steps, 24 possible levels, half of which are below 2 lumens, the other half go up to 200 lumens, in High CRI models. The lumens can be reached by rotating a dial, after a single button click. Below 200, HDS steps down to 134-90-60-40-27-18 lumens (iow 6 modes available above 18 lumens, and 17 levels below 18 lumens)

Folomov only has 5 total brightness levels, 2.2-20-50-140-280 lumens, plus blinkies, and requires clicking a switch multiple times to change modes… no rotary option. Folomov only has 3 levels above 20 lumens, and only 1 level below 20 lumens. Note that the Folomov 140 lumen mode is almost the same as the HDS level 23, and the Folomov 20 lumen level approximately corresponds to HDS level 18.

HDS has 12 brightness levels below 2 lumens, Folomov Zero.

HDS battery is 650mAh, Folomov is 350mAh

HDS low of 0.08 lumens, is much lower than Folomov low of 2.2 lumens
Folomov maximum of 280 lumens is higher than HDS 200 lumen max.

IF both lights are set to near identical lumen levels, 20 lm on Folomov, and 18 lm on HDS (level 18), and IF their LEDs and circuits consume approximately similar amounts of power, since the HDS battery has double the capacity, it should run about 2x as long, ceteris paribus.

Weight, Folomov 38gm, the HDS 106gm (almost 3 Folomov)

Material, Folomov Painted Brass, HDS Anodised Aluminium.

Price: Folomov less than $40, HDS less than $400

Beam, HDS beam has a ring in the spill, and hole in the hotspot at less than 3” away.

HDS hotspot is less than half as large as Folomov hotspot.

Which is better?

Both

zeroair · 2019-02-09T23:53:33.000Z

Folomov has no low voltage shutoff.

The Folomov does have low voltage shutoff.

jon_slider · 2019-02-10T00:20:33.000Z

zeroair:

Folomov has no low voltage shutoff.

The Folomov does have low voltage shutoff.

Oh good!
At what voltage?

zeroair · 2019-02-10T00:44:59.000Z

jon_slider:

zeroair:

Folomov has no low voltage shutoff.

The Folomov does have low voltage shutoff.

Oh good!
At what voltage?

Officially 2.8V. After shutoff on my runtime testing, I saw ~3V but the cell had probably bounced back from 2.8ish. It had rested for a while after the test.

jon_slider · 2019-02-10T01:21:24.000Z

zeroair:

jon_slider:

zeroair:

Folomov has no low voltage shutoff.

The Folomov does have low voltage shutoff.

Oh good!
At what voltage?

Officially 2.8V. After shutoff on my runtime testing, I saw ~3V but the cell had probably bounced back from 2.8ish. It had rested for a while after the test.

excellent info! much appreciated. edited first post to include 3v shutoff for both lights

I looked but did not see a review of yours posted, and have not noticed the 2.8v in the manual. Good to know yours shut off neasr that level, I understand what you mean, that there is rebound when resting, to about 3v. That is an excellent safe cutoff.

I had wondered, but have not tested, whether the Folomov would trigger overdischarge protection in the battery, if asked to produce maximum lumens. However, I dont know if the cell is actually protected, nor whether it is IMR.

from your comment I infer that the Folomov circuit simply will not light up below 3v, resting, since it rebounded, it tells me there was no overdischarge protection triggered in the battery itself… could it also be IMR… dont know, but can wish

In any case, great to know the light turns itself off at a safe minimum voltage. Fun little light! I like how easy it is to hold in my mouth, or tucked under my beret, no clip needed for brief hatlamp use.

zeroair · 2019-02-10T01:17:55.000Z

jon_slider:

I looked but did not see a review of yours posted

Coming this week!

jon_slider:

I had wondered, but have not tested, whether the Folomov would trigger overdischarge protection in the battery, if asked to produce maximum lumens. However, I dont know if the cell is actually protected, nor whether it is IMR. Additional info always welcome.

The included cell has no trouble doing what the light asks of it.

jon_slider · 2019-02-10T03:04:14.000Z

please share a link to your review here when it is ready, I always enjoy reading your thoughts.

Now an observation about lumens vs brightness within a small area

I can turn on my 140 lumen mode on the Folomov, and the hotspot is so wide, that the illumination I see on a painting on a wall 20 feet away, is similarly bright as the illumination from my HDS at 37 lumens.

that is to say, 37 lumens on a 3 food diameter hotspot, is roughly equivalent to a 6’ wide hotspot at 140 lumens.

that is what makes HDS lumens seem brighter, they are focused into a smaller area. This small hotspot in HDS, makes for a very efficient runtime ratio, because it allows the use of lower lumen levels.

The HDS beam is optimized for longer runtimes, by focusing on a small hotspot. This increases the throw of an HDS style beam, in contrast to wider beams at similar lumen levels, that will not throw as far.

In many ways, the HDS is optimized for use in a cave, where there is little color, and no ambient light. Ultra dim modes are useful in fully dark adapted situations, and a focused beam is adviseable, to see into the narrow tunnels one might need to crawl through, without overlighting the visual near field of the walls.

ma_tumba · 2019-02-10T08:34:53.000Z

It has never occurred to me that the hds is optimized for caving. I have always considered the tunnel shape to be a drawback

chadvone · 2019-02-10T17:38:50.000Z

Nice write up jon.

jon_slider · 2019-02-10T17:55:59.000Z

ma tumba:

It has never occurred to me that the hds is optimized for caving. I have always considered the tunnel shape to be a drawback

pencil beams and fog lights both have their benefits in different applications

That is why I like to pair an HDS/Novatac/Haiku style beam, that have a small tight throwy hotspot, to see down a narrow trail, with an alternative beam for close range, such as an aspheric like the McGizmo Sundrop or Utorch S1 Mini, or Sofirn C01, or a floody beam from a triple, when a more even, close range, floody wall of light is desired.

chadvone:

Nice write up jon.

thank you for taking the time to post kind and supportive words.
I thrive on encouragement

chadvone · 2019-02-10T18:02:36.000Z

^Anytime I was surprised that HDS has 12 levels under 2 lumens.

jon_slider · 2019-02-10T19:10:51.000Z

chadvone:

^Anytime I was surprised that HDS has 12 levels under 2 lumens.

me too, especially since they consume a full 50% of the rotary dial:

fwiw, Novatacs and other HDS Legacy lights, also have a large proportion of their modes, 10 of them, below 2 lumens:
yellow boxes are the 4 factory presets on clicky models:

zeroair · 2019-02-11T21:23:04.000Z

Jon, you mentioned pinging you when I posted the EDC C1 review. I have just:

[Review] Folomov EDC C1 Flashlight 1 x AAA Flashlights

Preface A new 10440 light has hit the market! It’s on pre-order at Illumn.com, and the guys there sent an early release model to me for a look. Of course I’m interested – it ticks a bunch of my boxes. Nichia, Brass…. Here’s my review of the Folomov EDC C1! Official Specs and Features Here’s a link to the product page at Illumn. The light isn’t up on the official Folomov site yet. Versions There is only one version of the EDC C1. Price The price is $34.90, and this is available on preo…

Happy reading!

jon_slider · 2019-02-12T07:27:03.000Z

Thanks, great writeup and photos

by any chance, do you know the Frequency of the Folomov light pulses (PWM or Constant Current). I agree I cannot see them with the naked eye.

I also cannot see the pulses in the Folomov when waving the light, the HDS otoh, yes. I believe HDS uses about 400Hz PWM on its lowest mode:

and btw, this just in!
HDS is EMP Proof, and Im starting a rumor that so is every other CE tested light… for the backstory, going forward, click this pic:

Here is a side by side beamshot of my 3300k E21a Folomov, and my HDS w N219b 3500k 9080

you can see the HDS beam has a ring in the spill, this is not unusual, for me it is very disappointing. But I realize that most people dont notice, in actual use… its one of those things that bug white wall hunters, like me. The Folomov beam is much cleaner. Bear in mind the donut hole in the middle of the hds beam goes away a few more inches away, but its damn aggravating to me, when I put it up close to something.

LightObsession · 2019-02-12T19:04:25.000Z

Thanks for the comparison.

Have you done any runtime plots for the Folomov?

Another review showed what I perceive to be very bad runtimes on Turbo and High.

I haven’t seen charts for medium and low.

jon_slider · 2019-02-12T20:29:27.000Z

no, I have not done any runtime tests
its a tiny battery,
I dont expect it to last long on modes above moon (2 lm), low (18 lm), and medium (45 lm)

I think of it a bit like my Lumitop Tool w Nichia, maximum runtime on high (80 lm) is just 30 min. I dont use my lights on maximum modes for more than a few seconds.

The benefit of this Warm White High CRI light is the color rendering and color temperature, and beam quality.

High runtime and high brightness are qualities that favor Low CRI Cool White LEDs, neither of which interest me.

Since I use rechargeable batteries, runtime is not a high priority, for the way I use my lights. I do carry spare batteries, and, truth be told, I actually also carry spare lights

LightObsession · 2019-02-12T21:13:24.000Z

jon_slider:

no, I have not done any runtime tests
its a tiny battery,
I dont expect it to last long on modes above moon (2 lm), low (18 lm), and medium (45 lm)

I think of it a bit like my Lumitop Tool w Nichia, maximum runtime on high (80 lm) is just 30 min. I dont use my lights on maximum modes for more than a few seconds.

The benefit of this Warm White High CRI light is the color rendering and color temperature, and beam quality.

High runtime and high brightness are qualities that favor Low CRI Cool White LEDs, neither of which interest me.

Since I use rechargeable batteries, runtime is not a high priority, for the way I use my lights. I do carry spare batteries, and, truth be told, I actually also carry spare lights

I think about runtimes for hands-free hat brim use. That would be my primary reason to buy this light. I usually don’t carry a backup for my hat brim light (which is currently a Factor Equipment Mizpah 130), unless you consider the Manker E02 as a backup hat brim light - it will work on my hat brim, but it’s a clutsy. The reality is that I use the Mizpah 130 on low most of the time, then medium and rarely on high.

Overall, I rarely carry less than 4 lights.

I don’t care for cold or bluish tint’s either and prefer High CRI, when it’s available in a preferable host.

Is there direct access to high or turbo on this light? Or only moonlight and the remembered mode. It seems like I have read both at different times.

Thanks for the wealth of information, pictures and comparisons that you have provided for this and many other lights.

jon_slider · 2019-02-12T22:17:28.000Z

Thanks for the kind words.

Yes, double click is direct access to turbo, and works the same both from off or on, which i consider excellent.

A second double click gives strobe.

Press hold from off gives moon. It cannot be memorized, i wish it could.

I also like hat use, for arms reach. I guesstimate at the 18 lumen low mode it would last 4 hours, but have not confirmed.

Its a great little hat light. I often use it just tucked under my beret, no clip, for brief uses.

Its light, small and thin. And the Led has the highest cri of just about anything on the market.

mmalive · 2019-02-13T20:24:30.000Z

Both look good. BUT is there a reason why HDS is so ” STEEP ” in pricing?

LightObsession · 2019-02-13T20:31:36.000Z

jon_slider:

I also like hat use, for arms reach. I guesstimate at the 18 lumen low mode it would last 4 hours, but have not confirmed.

Its a great little hat light. I often use it just tucked under my beret, no clip, for brief uses.

How does one tuck a light under their hat for hand’s free use? My brother mentioned this a couple weeks ago. I attempted it last night with a 1AAA light and couldn’t get the light directed anywhere near the desired direction.