HDS Rotary and Folomov 10440 comparisons

zeroair · 2019-02-10T00:44:59.000Z

jon_slider:

zeroair:

Folomov has no low voltage shutoff.

The Folomov does have low voltage shutoff.

Oh good!
At what voltage?

Officially 2.8V. After shutoff on my runtime testing, I saw ~3V but the cell had probably bounced back from 2.8ish. It had rested for a while after the test.

jon_slider · 2019-02-10T01:21:24.000Z

zeroair:

jon_slider:

zeroair:

Folomov has no low voltage shutoff.

The Folomov does have low voltage shutoff.

Oh good!
At what voltage?

Officially 2.8V. After shutoff on my runtime testing, I saw ~3V but the cell had probably bounced back from 2.8ish. It had rested for a while after the test.

excellent info! much appreciated. edited first post to include 3v shutoff for both lights

I looked but did not see a review of yours posted, and have not noticed the 2.8v in the manual. Good to know yours shut off neasr that level, I understand what you mean, that there is rebound when resting, to about 3v. That is an excellent safe cutoff.

I had wondered, but have not tested, whether the Folomov would trigger overdischarge protection in the battery, if asked to produce maximum lumens. However, I dont know if the cell is actually protected, nor whether it is IMR.

from your comment I infer that the Folomov circuit simply will not light up below 3v, resting, since it rebounded, it tells me there was no overdischarge protection triggered in the battery itself… could it also be IMR… dont know, but can wish

In any case, great to know the light turns itself off at a safe minimum voltage. Fun little light! I like how easy it is to hold in my mouth, or tucked under my beret, no clip needed for brief hatlamp use.

zeroair · 2019-02-10T01:17:55.000Z

jon_slider:

I looked but did not see a review of yours posted

Coming this week!

jon_slider:

I had wondered, but have not tested, whether the Folomov would trigger overdischarge protection in the battery, if asked to produce maximum lumens. However, I dont know if the cell is actually protected, nor whether it is IMR. Additional info always welcome.

The included cell has no trouble doing what the light asks of it.

jon_slider · 2019-02-10T03:04:14.000Z

please share a link to your review here when it is ready, I always enjoy reading your thoughts.

Now an observation about lumens vs brightness within a small area

I can turn on my 140 lumen mode on the Folomov, and the hotspot is so wide, that the illumination I see on a painting on a wall 20 feet away, is similarly bright as the illumination from my HDS at 37 lumens.

that is to say, 37 lumens on a 3 food diameter hotspot, is roughly equivalent to a 6’ wide hotspot at 140 lumens.

that is what makes HDS lumens seem brighter, they are focused into a smaller area. This small hotspot in HDS, makes for a very efficient runtime ratio, because it allows the use of lower lumen levels.

The HDS beam is optimized for longer runtimes, by focusing on a small hotspot. This increases the throw of an HDS style beam, in contrast to wider beams at similar lumen levels, that will not throw as far.

In many ways, the HDS is optimized for use in a cave, where there is little color, and no ambient light. Ultra dim modes are useful in fully dark adapted situations, and a focused beam is adviseable, to see into the narrow tunnels one might need to crawl through, without overlighting the visual near field of the walls.

ma_tumba · 2019-02-10T08:34:53.000Z

It has never occurred to me that the hds is optimized for caving. I have always considered the tunnel shape to be a drawback

chadvone · 2019-02-10T17:38:50.000Z

Nice write up jon.

jon_slider · 2019-02-10T17:55:59.000Z

ma tumba:

It has never occurred to me that the hds is optimized for caving. I have always considered the tunnel shape to be a drawback

pencil beams and fog lights both have their benefits in different applications

That is why I like to pair an HDS/Novatac/Haiku style beam, that have a small tight throwy hotspot, to see down a narrow trail, with an alternative beam for close range, such as an aspheric like the McGizmo Sundrop or Utorch S1 Mini, or Sofirn C01, or a floody beam from a triple, when a more even, close range, floody wall of light is desired.

chadvone:

Nice write up jon.

thank you for taking the time to post kind and supportive words.
I thrive on encouragement

chadvone · 2019-02-10T18:02:36.000Z

^Anytime I was surprised that HDS has 12 levels under 2 lumens.

jon_slider · 2019-02-10T19:10:51.000Z

chadvone:

^Anytime I was surprised that HDS has 12 levels under 2 lumens.

me too, especially since they consume a full 50% of the rotary dial:

fwiw, Novatacs and other HDS Legacy lights, also have a large proportion of their modes, 10 of them, below 2 lumens:
yellow boxes are the 4 factory presets on clicky models:

zeroair · 2019-02-11T21:23:04.000Z

Jon, you mentioned pinging you when I posted the EDC C1 review. I have just:

[Review] Folomov EDC C1 Flashlight 1 x AAA Flashlights

Preface A new 10440 light has hit the market! It’s on pre-order at Illumn.com, and the guys there sent an early release model to me for a look. Of course I’m interested – it ticks a bunch of my boxes. Nichia, Brass…. Here’s my review of the Folomov EDC C1! Official Specs and Features Here’s a link to the product page at Illumn. The light isn’t up on the official Folomov site yet. Versions There is only one version of the EDC C1. Price The price is $34.90, and this is available on preo…

Happy reading!

jon_slider · 2019-02-12T07:27:03.000Z

Thanks, great writeup and photos

by any chance, do you know the Frequency of the Folomov light pulses (PWM or Constant Current). I agree I cannot see them with the naked eye.

I also cannot see the pulses in the Folomov when waving the light, the HDS otoh, yes. I believe HDS uses about 400Hz PWM on its lowest mode:

and btw, this just in!
HDS is EMP Proof, and Im starting a rumor that so is every other CE tested light… for the backstory, going forward, click this pic:

Here is a side by side beamshot of my 3300k E21a Folomov, and my HDS w N219b 3500k 9080

you can see the HDS beam has a ring in the spill, this is not unusual, for me it is very disappointing. But I realize that most people dont notice, in actual use… its one of those things that bug white wall hunters, like me. The Folomov beam is much cleaner. Bear in mind the donut hole in the middle of the hds beam goes away a few more inches away, but its damn aggravating to me, when I put it up close to something.

LightObsession · 2019-02-12T19:04:25.000Z

Thanks for the comparison.

Have you done any runtime plots for the Folomov?

Another review showed what I perceive to be very bad runtimes on Turbo and High.

I haven’t seen charts for medium and low.

jon_slider · 2019-02-12T20:29:27.000Z

no, I have not done any runtime tests
its a tiny battery,
I dont expect it to last long on modes above moon (2 lm), low (18 lm), and medium (45 lm)

I think of it a bit like my Lumitop Tool w Nichia, maximum runtime on high (80 lm) is just 30 min. I dont use my lights on maximum modes for more than a few seconds.

The benefit of this Warm White High CRI light is the color rendering and color temperature, and beam quality.

High runtime and high brightness are qualities that favor Low CRI Cool White LEDs, neither of which interest me.

Since I use rechargeable batteries, runtime is not a high priority, for the way I use my lights. I do carry spare batteries, and, truth be told, I actually also carry spare lights

LightObsession · 2019-02-12T21:13:24.000Z

jon_slider:

no, I have not done any runtime tests
its a tiny battery,
I dont expect it to last long on modes above moon (2 lm), low (18 lm), and medium (45 lm)

I think of it a bit like my Lumitop Tool w Nichia, maximum runtime on high (80 lm) is just 30 min. I dont use my lights on maximum modes for more than a few seconds.

The benefit of this Warm White High CRI light is the color rendering and color temperature, and beam quality.

High runtime and high brightness are qualities that favor Low CRI Cool White LEDs, neither of which interest me.

Since I use rechargeable batteries, runtime is not a high priority, for the way I use my lights. I do carry spare batteries, and, truth be told, I actually also carry spare lights

I think about runtimes for hands-free hat brim use. That would be my primary reason to buy this light. I usually don’t carry a backup for my hat brim light (which is currently a Factor Equipment Mizpah 130), unless you consider the Manker E02 as a backup hat brim light - it will work on my hat brim, but it’s a clutsy. The reality is that I use the Mizpah 130 on low most of the time, then medium and rarely on high.

Overall, I rarely carry less than 4 lights.

I don’t care for cold or bluish tint’s either and prefer High CRI, when it’s available in a preferable host.

Is there direct access to high or turbo on this light? Or only moonlight and the remembered mode. It seems like I have read both at different times.

Thanks for the wealth of information, pictures and comparisons that you have provided for this and many other lights.

jon_slider · 2019-02-12T22:17:28.000Z

Thanks for the kind words.

Yes, double click is direct access to turbo, and works the same both from off or on, which i consider excellent.

A second double click gives strobe.

Press hold from off gives moon. It cannot be memorized, i wish it could.

I also like hat use, for arms reach. I guesstimate at the 18 lumen low mode it would last 4 hours, but have not confirmed.

Its a great little hat light. I often use it just tucked under my beret, no clip, for brief uses.

Its light, small and thin. And the Led has the highest cri of just about anything on the market.

mmalive · 2019-02-13T20:24:30.000Z

Both look good. BUT is there a reason why HDS is so ” STEEP ” in pricing?

LightObsession · 2019-02-13T20:31:36.000Z

jon_slider:

I also like hat use, for arms reach. I guesstimate at the 18 lumen low mode it would last 4 hours, but have not confirmed.

Its a great little hat light. I often use it just tucked under my beret, no clip, for brief uses.

How does one tuck a light under their hat for hand’s free use? My brother mentioned this a couple weeks ago. I attempted it last night with a 1AAA light and couldn’t get the light directed anywhere near the desired direction.

BurningPlayd0h · 2019-02-13T20:51:03.000Z

mmalive:

Both look good. BUT is there a reason why HDS is so ” STEEP ” in pricing?

Low volume of sales and meticulous attention to detail. Same reason high-end knives and watches are so expensive (also because they can price them that high).

jon_slider · 2019-02-14T20:12:47.000Z

HDS are priced the way they are, because they are built in USA, using USA labor for the machine work.

They actually have poor aesthetic quality control, uncentered emitters are not uncommon, cracks in the reflector are typical, some of the Rotary dials are gritty… etc. HDS claims these factors do not affect the beam in actual use. I disagree, in fact, even with a centered LED, HDS have a ring in the outer spill, and a hole in the middle of the beam at extreme close range.

The fan boy factor is very large in the HDS arena. This makes them pretty easy to resell, sometimes for close to what they cost, if they happen to have a special emitter.

HDS in the past were mostly Low CRI and had green tint to boot. Now is a good time though, Hogo has sourced some truly exceptional LEDs, the best of which imo is the N219b 4500k 9080.

It is also possible to modify an HDS emitter, here is a thread about how to do it:
HDS xp-g led mod bansuri

Candle Power Flashlight Forum

New style HDS EDC XP-G tint swap

Here's a warranty voiding and time consuming way to swap the XP-G on the new style HDS EDC lights if you'd like a different tint. My first attempt on a Golden Dragon based board failed miserably but I learned from that adventure. This method would...

I bought an HDS rotary, I wanted to try the Rotary feature. I do not like that it is not smooth ramping, it jumps up in hops. I much prefer my RRT-01.

otoh, the HDS has a lot more complex programming options, if you dont mind clicking a bunch of times. As a flashoholic, I dont mind clicking, for fun and entertainment, but my RRT-01 is much easier to use, goes lower and higher than my HDS, and has smooth ramping. Plus my RRT-01 is compatible with 18350, so double the battery capacity…

every light has its pros and cons. In the case of pocket clips, the RRT-01 clip is deeper carry than the HDS clip options. With the possible exception of the HDS universal clip, that everybody agrees is Fugly.

The HDS is designed for use in a cave. 1/2 of the 24 lumen steps are below 2 lumens. I find this not practical, even though I like sublumen levels.

now to try to also be fair to say things the HDS does well… It has a very tight hotspot, which means it can use much lower lumen levels, than other lights with a larger hotspot.

my unconfirmed preliminary impression is that the HDS hotspot is half as large as on the Folomov, and the HDS only requires 1/4 as many lumens, to illuminate a small target… I like having the small hotspot, as part of my selection of beam types.

there is a lot of hype about HDS too… for example, that it can survive being hit with a shotgun. This is true, same for other brands, they just dont test them for that. HDS is also EMP proof. Same for other brands.

mmalive · 2019-02-14T21:55:09.000Z

jon_slider:

HDS are priced the way they are, because they are built in USA, using USA labor for the machine work.

They actually have poor aesthetic quality control, uncentered emitters are not uncommon, cracks in the reflector are typical, some of the Rotary dials are gritty… etc. HDS claims these factors do not affect the beam in actual use. I disagree, in fact, even with a centered LED, HDS have a ring in the outer spill, and a hole in the middle of the beam at extreme close range.

The fan boy factor is very large in the HDS arena. This makes them pretty easy to resell, sometimes for close to what they cost, if they happen to have a special emitter.

HDS in the past were mostly Low CRI and had green tint to boot. Now is a good time though, Hogo has sourced some truly exceptional LEDs, the best of which imo is the N219b 4500k 9080.

It is also possible to modify an HDS emitter, here is a thread about how to do it:
HDS xp-g led mod bansuri
New style HDS EDC XP-G tint swap | Candle Power Flashlight Forum

I bought an HDS rotary, I wanted to try the Rotary feature. I do not like that it is not smooth ramping, it jumps up in hops. I much prefer my RRT-01.

otoh, the HDS has a lot more complex programming options, if you dont mind clicking a bunch of times. As a flashoholic, I dont mind clicking, for fun and entertainment, but my RRT-01 is much easier to use, goes lower and higher than my HDS, and has smooth ramping. Plus my RRT-01 is compatible with 18350, so double the battery capacity…

every light has its pros and cons. In the case of pocket clips, the RRT-01 clip is deeper carry than the HDS clip options. With the possible exception of the HDS universal clip, that everybody agrees is Fugly.

The HDS is designed for use in a cave. 1/2 of the 24 lumen steps are below 2 lumens. I find this not practical, even though I like sublumen levels.

now to try to also be fair to say things the HDS does well… It has a very tight hotspot, which means it can use much lower lumen levels, than other lights with a larger hotspot.

my unconfirmed preliminary impression is that the HDS hotspot is half as large as on the Folomov, and the HDS only requires 1/4 as many lumens, to illuminate a small target… I like having the small hotspot, as part of my selection of beam types.

there is a lot of hype about HDS too… for example, that it can survive being hit with a shotgun. This is true, same for other brands, they just dont test them for that. HDS is also EMP proof. Same for other brands.

Jon, I know about USA made product. I stand behind that concept any day. The problem is charging ” STEEP ” price is draw back. Especially when things are not perfectly made with slight defects. Non centered emitters, cracked reflectors, etc……

BTW, I own many flashlights some going above $600 so I am willing to spend and support 100% USA made product.

BUT has to be perfect or very close to that.