Help with P60 drop in type torches

LED Flashlights – General Info
1

Hi, I’m new to this forum but I have a bit of a question, hope that’s OK.

I want to replace my LED Lenser T7 with something a bit more practical. I first thought about a Foursevens Quark or another torch that accepts CR123 and AA batteries, then I thought I’m not sure I need it to accept AA batteries. It would just be dimmer and I’d never use that function.

THen I started thinking that what I’d really like is a CR123 (single) torch that I can ramp up to 2, 3 or 4 CR123s when I need it; otherwise I might miss the power of my LED Lenser (or maybe not? maybe a good single CR123 is more powerful anyway…)

Either way, I thought the Solarforce L2M would be perfect. I can run it as a single CR123 most of the time then when I really need to I can upgrade it to 2 CR123s or maybe more.

But, I’m not sure which drop in unit to get and I’m not sure about the ‘rules’ that you have to follow.SF make a 3-18V drop in; would this therefore be suitable for anything from 1-6 CR123 batteries? That seems too easy…does the voltage of a CR123 drop slightly as it gets used? If so then is it a problem if it drops below 3? Is a 3-18V drop in just going to be rubbish with 1 CR123?

So, the question I suppose is in two parts:

1) Is there a drop in which will accomodate both a single CR123 and two CR123s and be pretty good with both?

2) Is there a drop in (eg the SF 3-18V one) which can handle between 2 and 4 CR123s?

Sorry there isn’t just two questions. I was also wondering about the tail caps; can the one that comes with the L2M handle more than 2 CR123s? if not which one should I buy with it? What would a 3 or 4 CR123 light be like? Would it be loads brighter than a 1 CR123 light? Would any of them actually be brighter or less bright than my LED LEnser T7?

Thanks very much, any help or advice much appreciated

2

Hi. Hope I can answer some of the above for you, although I have a few questions too.

1. What is not practical with your T7? I’m not wanting to stop you buying a new torch… after all, buying them is largely why were are here! :smiley: :smiley:

But what is it you are wanting different from the T7?

2. You mention CR123a’s, do you plan to move to li-ion rechargeable? Evidently the gain here is reuse and long term cheaper than disposable batteries. There are some risks with li-ion, but no more so than having a petrol (gas) powered car. But you will need more care than using AA’s.
_

Drop in’s.

While many drop ins will work with a wide range of voltages, some will work a lot better on a specific setup. This is because there different kinds of drivers and they work differently.

A high output dropin on 1xCR123a will likely not give you the most output or much of a runtime. In fact you may be bettered served to go for a tamer drop in to improve performance.

A CR123a is 3.0 lithium primary battery. If you look at any flashlight makers high driven 1xCR123a lights with an XM-L2 tend to stick to around 300-400 lumens and 100 lumens less with an XP-G2 (the XP-G2 is smaller and throws further, but less light overall).

Part of this limit is the battery. If you move to li-ion then instead of 3.0v you get 4.2v (3.7v nominal). This means more output as a rule.

In fact if you want high output on a single small battery the L2M will accept 18350 batteries, which are slightly bigger and you can get these in a chemistry known as IMR. These will offer long highout runtimes vs CR123a or their li-ion ICR counterparts knowns as RCR123 or 16340 batteries.

I dare say this might be getting a little puggling. The long and short is, I have a couple of p60 drop ins, one of them is Solarforces own XM-L U2 with the wide voltage operating range. I like it and while it will work on a single battery it doesn’t work all that well.

I used to run it on an 18650 li-ion (4.2v) but it drops out of regulation very quickly and will start and dim. On a CR123a I would it would be dreadful, although I have used it on some RCR123’s and while you it worked performance was much less than the 18650.

I now use this drop in with 2xli-ion batteries (8.4v) and it’s much better. It’s actually brighter, but importantly it stays regulated for much longer.

My other drop in has a max operating voltage of 4.2v and is driven quite hard. Due to the max voltage it can’t run on more than 1 x li-ion and it won’t accept 2xXR123a. It is bright and works better than the SF one did on one battery, but it doesn’t stay regulated as long as the SF one does on multiple batteries.

In terms of performance overall. Any good XM-L p60 will offer up a lot more lumens and total light output than your T7. But the T7 is quite a clever torch with it’s TIR optic. I have a similar torch called a Pop lite T33, although the Pop lite claims regulation and 220 lumens.

The p60’s all out out a lot more light than the T33 does, but due to the optic on the T33 it can actually out flood and out throw my p60’s, although not do both things at the same time.

I say go for it, get an L2M, they are cheap enough not to worry about and there are plenty of p60’s to get. If you want to run 2xCR123a then the SF XM-L U2 drop in is worth looking at. If you only want to run 1xCR123a then I think you need to look for a different drop in.

3

Are you committed to a CR123 format?

It’s not really the best choice for a high power LED flashlight.

4

I’ll answer your questions first:

I would like something smaller basically. I don’t think AAA batteries are a particularly good battery to run a torch from. I find the T7 a bit bulky to carry all the time and I was thinking of getting a single AA or AAA light for this purpose then I started to think that maybe I just just have one torch for both jobs. I’ve started thinking (either rightly or wrongly) that a single CR123 will put out as much light as my T7 and that one with 2CR123s will put out a lot more. Also when I do travel I like to keep spare batteries and it’s a lot easier carrying a spare single CR123 than 4 spare AAAs.
However, I see your point about the focussing. I actually really like this feature although I’m not sure how useful it is in reality…I just like playing with it! I also heard that LED Lensers have really good run time…is that the case? The T7 is my first LED light and I don’t really know how good it is…it’s interesting what you say about the focussing; that although it can’t do both at the same time it can outspot and outflood a lot of ‘better’ lights. SInce I mainly like a tight spot it may be more suitable for me than I think it is…

I rarely use a torch from one week to the next but like to have one with me. Then there are periods when camping and travelling when I use one frequently. As a result of these useage patterns I have no need for rechargeable batteries and the expense of CR123s over AAAs is not really an issue (that said, can you run a P60 on AAs? What size tube would you need?)

I like the idea of having a more compact torch for carrying most of the time which I can then stick a couple more batteries in when I need it for extended periods of time. It’s not that there’s anything wrong with the T7 as such, just that there might be something more suitable for me.

So…it seems from what you are saying that I can use s 3-18V drop in for anything between 2 and 4 CR123s but it would be better (but not strictly necessary) to get a 0.9-4.2V drop in for use with a single CR123.

Do you have any recommendations for a really good low voltage drop in? I would rather a really good spotlight which goes a long way than a wide flood. I can pick up a L2M for £15 so it might be worth a punt even as an addition to the T7… but one of them will have to go after a bit I can’t stand having 2 things when 1 will do!

Thanks for your help you’ve been great

5

What is the best? I thought CR123 was better than AA and AAA and I don’t really want to go down the rechargeable route…they’re only any good for frequent use…

6

Yes, I also have had LED-Lenser, but P7… At the very beginning I liked focusing function, but after a while it started to bother me. you must zoom in every time when you want to look further, and zoom back to flood to see in front of you. Flashlight with standard reflector you can easily hold in your hand and illuminate wherever you want :slight_smile: And also standard flashlights seems more durable - they are one piece construction, without moving parts where dust or water can get in… Flashlights with lens looks cool, but in real life, more useful is standard flashlights.

To the Topic author I can recommend: stick to 18650 flashlights, with ability to use 2 x CR123A (if he likes these batteries).
For example: OLIGHT S20 Baton Nitecore EC-25 or something like that… they are small enough to carry in your pocket, but they give sufficient brightness and run time.

7

For the money the L2M is well worth buying IMO. Although it’s still quite a chunky torch for a jeans pocket.

The POP lite T33 is slightly slimmer than a Led Lenser T7 and as you can see in this pic the T33 is a very similar size to the L2M.

If you want something more pocketable there are smaller lights than the L2M. But you’ll usually sacrifice throw due to a smaller reflector.

8

For carrying spares, I usually recommend Powerpax Battery Caddies. Have you heard of those before? They cost around five to ten quid on amazon.

That solely depends on what you’d define as runtime. LL defines runtime of their lights until output drops to one lumen.

Are you aware of LSD-NiMH cells? Contrary to the common NiMH or NiCd rechargeables which would always drain themselves dead within a few days of storage, so-called LSD (Low Self Discharge) batteries can be left unused in a drawer for weeks, if not months, and still will be ready to deliver the juice when you need it. Also, they do have a lower internal resistance than AA alkaline manganese cells, allowing for higher discharge rates which is what you would be wanting in a high-powered torch. Do a search on “eneloop” if you don’t know of them already.

As far as the 2xAA P60 is concerned, Solarforce sells the L2r- which nowadays basically consists of an L2 and a battery extension tube. There are dropins available sporting a voltage range from 0.8-4.2V (mostly based on the XP-G emitter), which would be ideal in a 2xAA configuration.

9

you’ve addressed some of the downsides of AAs but I’m still not sure what the benefit of AAs over CR123s are, if any. As far as I can see, I can run a 0/8-4.2 module with 1 CR123 or 2AAs…surely using the CR123s saves weight, space and will be just as bright? What’s the benefit of using AAs other than that they are easy to get hold of and cheap?

Regarding NiMH; I do use these for other things and they’re great for things like remote keyboards and mice and speakers etc…I actually find that the ones I currently use are fine if left for as you say weeks and months and they still hold a charge. The thing that puts me off using them in my torch is the lower voltage (1.2) and the fact that as they drain the voltage gets progressively lower. I’d prefer the flat power curve and years long life of non-rechargeable batteries; as I said before I don’t really use a torch often enough to make it a financial issue.

10

I’m looking sceptically to the Solarforce 0.8-4.2 drop-in’s. I’ve heard that their XM-L drop-in’s are very underdriven, and I think that from 2xAA or 1xCR123A You can’t get nothing bright with that drop-in’s…
If size is important, and there are no plans to use flashlight constantly for hours, than I can recommend something from Nitecore EC series (have you heard about them?), for example EC-1 - very compact, well-regulated and gives good throw for it size.
Here is detailed review:

11

To tell you the truth, I find the L2M to be too thick to pocket carry, even in shorty mode. I previously edc’ed a SWM V10R, and even at 24mm in diameter I found it to be a bit too thick to pocket carry comfortably. My current edc light is a D25A2 twisty, and even though it’s quite a bit longer than the V10r, I find it a lot more comfortable to pocket because of it’s smaller diameter.

12

Li-ion is the best when you’re talking about budget priced, high power flashlights. But for the kind of infrequent use that you described, CR123 is probably a good choice.

Instead of a P60, I think getting a dedicated CR123 flashlight would be better. Those low voltage SF drop-ins aren’t known for being all that efficient or that reliable. In general, it’s hard to find a high quality, low voltage P60 drop-in.

There are a lot of good 1xCR123 flashlights that are more compact and more efficient than a P60 with comparable output.

13

I got, and really like this one from FT:

https://www.fasttech.com/p/1300400

UniqueFire UF-K21 Cree XM-L U2 5-Mode 500-Lumen Mini LED Flashlight

I’m mainly using it with 16340s, but FT’s page says “CR123A”, but it is super bright and tiny. Funny thing is nowadays, when I need to grab a light for something at home, it’s the first one I go for, and even my wife and daughter are doing the same.

Edit: Plus it has a magnet in its tail end :)… Cute.

14

I EDC a Solarforce L2M with no problem. Those links on cpf They won’t let me show are these http://www.solarforceflashlight-sales.com/product_detail.php?t=LF&s=46&id=540 and http://www.solarforceflashlight-sales.com/product_detail.php?t=LF&s=32&id=541 I general get 2 amp draw off of a single 18350 or 18650 battery. I’ve built and sold several of the 2.7-9v XM-L U2 dropins with Solarforce host. After about a year and a half I’ve only had to replace 1 dropin. These on a single cr123 are not the brightest but the single 18350’s, 18650’s or 2-cr123 bring out the full brightness.