How do you store your lithium batteries? Fireproof bags?

Cereal_killer · 2019-11-25T03:13:32.000Z

I took a metal ammo can, completely lined it with drywall and store my cells in there. Inside the can is a couple of 25 count 12ga storage containers for 18650 and smaller and the plastic cases they come in for my 21700’s and 26650’s.

Drywall is rated to hold up to 30 minutes of exposure to direct flame without burning, I’d like to see one of those soft battery bags hold up to that.

amishbill · 2019-11-25T03:16:19.000Z

Those bags are mainly intended for hobbyists fast charging battery packs. Good batteries that haven’t been abused are unlikely to need that kind of protection for storage.

hank · 2019-11-25T04:30:54.000Z

a metal ammo can, completely lined it with drywall

Best idea I’e seen.

Couchmaster · 2019-11-25T04:51:50.000Z

WalkIntoTheLight:

patmurris:

Anyway, i don’t think long-mid term “storing” Li-ion cells does make much sense since they deprecate with time.

IMO, it makes sense for those of us not in the US. It is getting more difficult to get lithium-ion cells shipped here. I suspect it’s only a matter of time before they’re banned from shipping entirely, or are prohibitively expensive to ship.

So, I stock up, and have a bunch of cells in long-term storage. Yeah, it might be wasting $100 - $200 of batteries that I’m not using, but I have far more invested in lights that require 18650’s.

The last year of the Obama adminstration, they allocated over $10 billion towards renewables. Battery’s were the largest beneficiary of that government largess. University grants and government research on better batterys. My fear on stocking so many is that tomorrow we will (and should) see a better battery that makes everything I currently own obsolete. So I only buy what I need and a few more.

Storage for me: the plastic cases they come in and then into a tightly sealed steel cookie tin. The ammo box would be better and I hadn’t though of it, but they test ammo in fires and the boxes are up for that, they’d do well with these batterys as long as they were in plastic or stored so you couldn’t short them out…like tossing them in with a bunch of tacks:-)

For charging I do have a efest charging bag like those tested if I’m not going to be in the same room.

Propeak · 2019-11-25T10:14:11.000Z

Loads of great ideas! Thank you all!

I was wondering whether sealing them in flashlights (even with manual lock-out) or metal tins is more dangerous due to the pressure build-up? Especially if you threw in a few tacks too

WalkIntoTheLight · 2019-11-25T13:34:49.000Z

Couchmaster:

WalkIntoTheLight:

patmurris:

Anyway, i don’t think long-mid term “storing” Li-ion cells does make much sense since they deprecate with time.

IMO, it makes sense for those of us not in the US. It is getting more difficult to get lithium-ion cells shipped here. I suspect it’s only a matter of time before they’re banned from shipping entirely, or are prohibitively expensive to ship.

So, I stock up, and have a bunch of cells in long-term storage. Yeah, it might be wasting $100 - $200 of batteries that I’m not using, but I have far more invested in lights that require 18650’s.

The last year of the Obama adminstration, they allocated over $10 billion towards renewables. Battery’s were the largest beneficiary of that government largess. University grants and government research on better batterys. My fear on stocking so many is that tomorrow we will (and should) see a better battery that makes everything I currently own obsolete. So I only buy what I need and a few more.

You’ll most-likely get away with that. I’m just being cautious, because I have a lot of nice lights that run on 18650’s, and I don’t want them to become paper-weights. I live in the land of over-regulation, and restrictions on shipping lithium-ion cells has been getting worse, not better. Since they aren’t consumer cells, and mainly used for vaping (which the government wants to ban anyway), it’s an easy step for government to just ban naked 18650’s.

I have about 20 cells in long-term storage in the refrigerator, and about the same in room-temperature (all stored at 3.75v). I’m not sure if keeping them cool has any additional benefit; I guess I’ll find out in a few years. It’s probably wasting a couple of hundred bucks, but so be it. I waste far more on lights I don’t need.

Even if I don’t need to store them, they’ll still be usable in 10 years, though perhaps not as high-drain cells. I have some 10+ year old laptop cells that still function at about 80% of their capacity, and they’re good for moderate drain. Of course, capacities were lower back then, so they’re not great for run-time.

pennzy · 2019-11-25T13:53:32.000Z

I wonder if storing all your batteries together is a good idea? If one goes, they all go?

Also, when battery technology changes, will all our lights become obsolete?

WalkIntoTheLight · 2019-11-25T16:39:40.000Z

pennzy:

I wonder if storing all your batteries together is a good idea? If one goes, they all go?

Likely. But, there’s no reason for a cell sitting in storage to catch fire. They only do that when charging, discharging, or being abused.

Is it possible? Sure. But an electrical house wire fire is far more likely, and I deal with that risk.

Also, when battery technology changes, will all our lights become obsolete?

That’s another reason to keep a supply of cells. It means you can get a few more years out of obsolete lights.

Eventually, they’ll be paper weights. But I hate the idea of a $100 light becoming useless because I didn’t store a couple of $5 batteries for it.

For similar reasons, I try to avoid buying anything that has a built-in proprietary battery. Sometimes, that’s impossible to avoid, but a lot of times there are similar products that use regular batteries.

Lightbringer · 2019-11-25T17:15:36.000Z

Propeak:

I was wondering whether sealing them in flashlights (even with manual lock-out) or metal tins is more dangerous due to the pressure build-up? Especially if you threw in a few tacks too

Ages ago, probably before I even joined here, I read about someone whose cell went supernova inside a light, and blew out the front glass and reflector, sending shards of glass into his leg/foot before he could toss it.

Odd, as I thought the tailswitch would blow first, being only a glorified rubber balloon on the end.

Anyway, it’s always possible. While it’s extremely rare to have an “incident” as such, it’s pretty much a given that most lights are basically “safe” pipe-bombs with a Li cell inside.

Then again, there are plenty of videos of phones and laptops ballooning and bursting into flames, too. But they’re plastic-walled and don’t send as much shrapnel in all directions like a flashlight or vaping-thing (whatever ya call ’em) can.

Lightbringer · 2019-11-25T17:20:45.000Z

WalkIntoTheLight:

Eventually, they’ll be paper weights. But I hate the idea of a $100 light becoming useless because I didn’t store a couple of $5 batteries for it.

That’s the nice thing about lights that can also take a pair of ’123s. While pricey, chances are they’ll still be around for a while.

And even as Li cells age, capacity will decrease, discharge current will decrease, but plenty of low-stress lights can still use ’em just fine. I use laptop pulls in headlights, ferinstance. They don’t draw more’n 1.5A or so, at least the ones I have, so they should be fine for quite some time.

WalkIntoTheLight · 2019-11-25T17:32:48.000Z

Lightbringer:

That’s the nice thing about lights that can also take a pair of ’123s. While pricey, chances are they’ll still be around for a while.

Yeah, but waaaaaay too costly around here. $12.50 each (plus tax) locally. I’ll just throw out the light.

And even as Li cells age, capacity will decrease, discharge current will decrease, but plenty of low-stress lights can still use ’em just fine. I use laptop pulls in headlights, ferinstance. They don’t draw more’n 1.5A or so, at least the ones I have, so they should be fine for quite some time.

Lithium-ion cells hold up remarkably well over the years. As I’ve mentioned, I still use 10+ year old laptop cells in some lights. I’ll even use them in single-emitter FET lights (like the BLF A6). They’re noticeably dimmer than high-drain cells, but still plenty bright. Probably happily drawing about 3-4 amps. I don’t use them in multi-emitter FET lights, because I’m concerned the light may drain them faster than they’re rated for (only 4.4 amps). The laptop cells still test at 80% of their original capacity, and they weren’t well-treated over those 10 years.

I’ve sometimes used them in a Zebralight SC600w IV Plus, which has a boost-driver and an output of 2300 lumens. It drains at 6-8 amps, and uses regulated output so it sucks harder if the voltage sags. I don’t use them for long, though, as it’s clearly pushing the cell harder than its specs. But, the old cells do still perform.

The myth of “lithium-ion cells lose 20% of their capacity every year in storage” is just false.

pennzy · 2019-11-25T17:39:11.000Z

When the 18650 format is gone, I can’t wait to see the mods going on here.

xevious · 2019-11-25T18:53:35.000Z

toddcshoe:

I still have yet to completely understand the fear of Li-Ion cells. They are in almost everything. The numbers of people hurt or even killed by cells are minuscule in comparison to people being killed and injured by pencils.

I keep all my cells loose in a big empty holiday popcorn tin. When I am feeling like living on the edge, I give it a good shake and hope for the best. My wife calls it my mini Chernobyl.

Exactly. Isn’t the casing of the battery itself part of the protection? I don’t buy cheap, questionable batteries from Chinese sellers. I pay a little more and get cells I trust. Or, I harvest them from battery packs that are OEM (not cheap knock-offs). I don’t keep a VAULT of batteries, as a consumer. I imagine if I was a professional who relied upon them as part of my work, the company would have some special handling. But for the home? Most of my cells are in my lights, with just a handful extra that stay in a drawer where they’re in cases to keep clear of electrical contact. I wouldn’t use more than one 18650 flashlight at a time. If I suddenly discover the charge is low in one light, I’ll borrow the charged batteries from another light in a pinch.

xevious · 2019-11-25T18:55:42.000Z

pennzy:

When the 18650 format is gone, I can’t wait to see the mods going on here.

You really think it’ll be gone sometime in the near future? I think it’s a fantastic size, hand-relative. Just look at the FW3A, one of the smallest lights to house that cell. If chemistry gets better, then the 18650 format will just improve along with it. I could see 18350 becoming more popular in that case, for even greater miniaturization.

pennzy · 2019-11-25T19:10:48.000Z

I foresee whatever industries that use cells to dictate the future. We are only a spin off.

Lightbringer · 2019-11-25T20:02:17.000Z

pennzy:

I foresee whatever industries that use cells to dictate the future. We are only a spin off.

Yeah, we’re “The Lone Gunmen” of the “X Files” franchise…

WalkIntoTheLight · 2019-11-25T20:49:51.000Z

Yup, EV and tool manufacturers are going to determine the cell format of the future. 18650’s for flashlights might stick around for awhile after that, but only from small niche companies that roll their own. No new development or performance improvements.

Flying_Luminosity · 2019-11-25T21:04:13.000Z

I keep mine here

Couchmaster · 2020-05-13T17:13:51.000Z

^ Not sure how you British folks get any bullets out of the end of yer rifles with those yellow thinggys ^ on the ends, but whatever floats yer boats. BTW, lil heads up, if you duck yer heads down just a tad more yer less likely to get it blown off. Seems like batterys would be the least of yer worries.

hank · 2020-05-13T17:35:28.000Z

There is no reason any goes boom or vents if left untouched.

Over the many years I’ve been using rechargeable li-ions, I’ve found two that vented in storage.
No fire, just a brown stain around the positive end and inside the box where I had them stored.

I’ve also found evidence of one leaking while on a charger. These were all years ago, not recent.

I don’t trust them to be reasonable about how they behave. There are a lot of places in China making li-ion cells, using whatever plastic film membrane they have handy to roll up the components.
The quality of the membrane is critical to safety with these cells.