It's flaming ABSURD.........

nottawhackjob · 2018-11-06T05:45:35.000Z

We’ve had 18650’s , 26650’s 14500’s, 10440’s etc., since Gandhi was in short pants and flash makers to this GD day still can’t make lights that FIT these common batts with room to spare whether protected up the wazoo or not.

I mean how frickin hard can it be when ya got (usually) a VARIABLE sizing SPRING not only on the GD positive but ALSO one in the negative end.

And STILL to this GD day in and day out ya hear people on BLF complain cuz a particular brand of 18650 or if it’s PROTECTED doesn’t somehow fit the latest and greatest $60 flash they just received. So the batt that doesn’t fit is maybe 3 to 4mm longer than a non-protected 18650. Somehow in the near year 2019 you’ll still hear this all the time….

“My UberDuber Commando 9000 flashlight won’t accept protected batteries. Especially brand’s XYZ’s.”

I mean c’mon.

There’s no Excuse for this BS. It’s STUPID unnecessary consumer abuse.

Hey manufacturers. This is soon 2019.

Do ya think it’s time ya all figured out that ya better allow for an extra 2 to 4mm in your designs?

’Course maybe they figure YOU just need to CUT a coil or two off the spring and now you’re back in business.

YOU shouldn’t have to CUT SH*T OFF. There’s already a variable length GD SPRING. Adjust your tube lengths and/or tail cap THREADS to accommodate the extra 2 to 4 paltry ass MM’s!!! Or maybe if THAT doesn’t work minus a coil or two.

If you guyz advertise in 2019 that your flash ACCEPTS 18650’s then by golly it should ACCEPT ALL FRICKIN 18650’s, INCLUDING PROTECTEDS, whether they measure out to 18652 or 18654.

Remember there are SPRINGS involved here. How HARD can this frickin be to pull off?

Nimrods. :partying_face: :money_mouth_face:

Ok rant off. :person_facepalming:

PS. Almost rant off. If you flash manufacturers/designers incorporate especially a tail cap lock-out feature then WTF are you thinking when ya make the tail cap not able to bottom out and make the necessary contact with the tube for the flash to even function with that extra few MM’s in a protected batt? I mean what do ya think you’re designing? A Rolex which requires tight tolerances?

Blackbeard · 2018-11-06T06:46:17.000Z

On the other hand, maybe there should be a standard battery length for protected, unprotected, I have 7 18650’s in a case I’m looking at and not one is the same length, you don’t find that issue with AA or AAA’s.

Flashy_Mike · 2018-11-06T06:50:27.000Z

Why don’t battery manufacturers make protected cells which fit the given 18650 dimensions?

Enderman · 2018-11-06T06:57:00.000Z

Flashy Mike:

Why don’t battery manufacturers make protected cells which fit the given 18650 dimensions?

Because then they would have to use a cell that’s shorter than a standard 18650, so smaller capacity, and not brand-name standard.

nottawhackjob · 2018-11-06T07:04:37.000Z

Flashy Mike:

Why don’t battery manufacturers make protected cells which fit the given 18650 dimensions?

Maybe this is a good question for HKJ. :laughing: (Correction: Enderman. :student: )

Butt back to watt I said I think at this juncture manufacturers/designers by now should get on the stick and loosen up the machining to accommodate battery variances by at least 4MM.

It’s a GD crapshoot out there regardless if a flash costs ya $100+.

Flashy_Mike · 2018-11-06T09:44:07.000Z

Enderman:

Flashy Mike:

Why don’t battery manufacturers make protected cells which fit the given 18650 dimensions?

Because then they would have to use a cell that’s shorter than a standard 18650, so smaller capacity, and not brand-name standard.

I know that of course but I don’t think its fair to blame the light manufacturers only. 18650 means 18650, the currently available protected 18650 cells simply don’t match the standard.
Btw. there are lights which I don’t want to be any longer to fit protected cells, the D4 for instance.

CRX · 2018-11-06T07:13:28.000Z

Do UberDuber Commando 9000 flashlights need protected cells? I thought the driver had LVP built in on those…
Plus they usually require high discharge cells that normally don’t come with protection circuits.

Enderman · 2018-11-06T07:16:05.000Z

Flashy Mike:

I know that of course but I don’t think its fair to blame the light manufacturers only. 18650 means 18650, the currently available protected18650 cells simply don’t match the standard.
Btw. there are lights which I don’t want to be any longer to fit protected cells, the D4 for instance.

Right, it’s mainly the fault of the cell.
If a flashlight says 18650 it shouldn’t have to be made to fit 18700.
There’s really no reason to use protected cells if you’re using a high quality flashlight that has built in protection in the driver.

everydaysurvivalgear · 2018-11-06T07:20:13.000Z

We need to get you on talk back radio stat lol.

Some one should live stream webcast thing a BLF show weekly i think it would be cool. Like a weekly BLF update id tune in to have a chat.

nottawhackjob · 2018-11-06T08:27:28.000Z

Flashy Mike:

Enderman:

Flashy Mike:

Why don’t battery manufacturers make protected cells which fit the given 18650 dimensions?

Because then they would have to use a cell that’s shorter than a standard 18650, so smaller capacity, and not brand-name standard.

I know that of course but I don’t think its fair to blame the light manufacturers only. 18650 means 18650, the currently available protected18650 cells simply don’t match the standard.
Btw. there are lights which I don’t want to be any longer to fit protected cells, the D4 for instance.

The body doesn’t have to necessarily be longer.

As we’re talking about really lock-out tail caps as the main issue then it’s moreso thread to switch contact retaining ring tolerances butt there’s room there to play with too without the body length getting affected. Then ya could still keep your longer springs as necessary. I’m mentioning spring lengths but in reality it’s really more of a thread to tail cap retaining ring issue. In some rare cases reducing spring lengths can work to better accommodate some protected orphans.

Besides no one really likes dented up negative anodes from an extra pressure negative spring if it’s not needed - extra unnecessary pressure on the driver end either which modders know can cause issues.

Enderman · 2018-11-06T07:22:46.000Z

nottawhackjob:

The body doesn’t have to be longer. They could use instead shorter springs and accomplish the same thing. I think there’s more than plenty of spring pressure prevalent already. They could lose a coil or even three front and/or aft and the flash would still function fine.

That’s not how the math works.
It would still be longer than using shorter springs and having it only 18650 length instead of 18700.

nottawhackjob · 2018-11-06T07:37:36.000Z

Enderman:

nottawhackjob:

The body doesn’t have to be longer. They could use instead shorter springs and accomplish the same thing. I think there’s more than plenty of spring pressure prevalent already. They could lose a coil or even three front and/or aft and the flash would still function fine.

That’s not how the math works.
It would still be longer than using shorter springs and having it only 18650 length instead of 18700.

Yeah, agree. I had just edited that reasoning above to the machining side of the coin instead when your reply hit.

nottawhackjob · 2018-11-06T08:00:53.000Z

Enderman:

Flashy Mike:

I know that of course but I don’t think its fair to blame the light manufacturers only. 18650 means 18650, the currently available protected18650 cells simply don’t match the standard.
Btw. there are lights which I don’t want to be any longer to fit protected cells, the D4 for instance.

Right, it’s mainly the fault of the cell.
If a flashlight says 18650 it shouldn’t have to be made to fit 18700.
There’s really no reason to use protected cells if you’re using a high quality flashlight that has built in protection in the driver.

Yeah butt if I have to borrow your protected 18650 batt in an emergency I could be SOL. I guess I’m asking for too much. :laughing:

Maybe there should be a new term for protected batts in general facilitating an easier distinction between flashes that can’t accept them vs those that can.

As in……

“The Uber Commando 9000 flashlight also accepts all 18650P length batteries.”

nottawhackjob · 2018-11-06T08:15:08.000Z

everydaysurvivalgear:

We need to get you on talk back radio stat lol.

Some one should live stream webcast thing a BLF show weekly i think it would be cool. Like a weekly BLF update id tune in to have a chat.

Yeah something like Click and Clack? Ya know the radio auto repair two guys with different opinions confusing the sh*t outta the lay weekend garage hack mechanic public? :laughing:

nottawhackjob · 2018-11-06T09:11:11.000Z

Blackbeard:

On the other hand, maybe there should be a standard battery length for protected, unprotected, I have 7 18650’s in a case I’m looking at and not one is the same length, you don’t find that issue with AA or AAA’s.

Ya know when ya really think about what you said here it’s pretty crazy. It’s like assuming an industry standard size would’ve existed by now for PROTECTEDS except there hasn’t been any standard AT ALL since frickin day one and continues to go that way.

The light manufacturers apparently don’t talk to the batt makers and vice-versa. And here we are with lights that don’t work with the batt size nomenclature advertised they’ll accept because certain 18650 protecteds often are really an 18700 in disguise.

I’m ragging on the flash manufacturers butt as is being pointed out the cell manufacturers are the ones really at fault here. Standardize your batt sizes industry-wide whether protected or not. Then everyone can play nice on an even field.

It’s like the wild wild orient express out there. Well somebody has got to get their sh*t together. :laughing:

Ps. Butt wait a second. For NON-PROTECTEDS how much variance from 18650 length dimensions are you guyz typically seeing?

I can see PROTECTEDS being all over the map butt non-protecteds too?

(Man, daylight savings change, plus it’s dam late, and I’m really really tired. Toooooo bed already.)

Macka17 · 2018-11-06T09:41:26.000Z

ALL Battery’s SHOULD be std size.
whatever number 14400 18650 26650 etc. Unprotected. and also Protected size. to cover length of extra cell on the end. 2 sizes only.
Unfortunately they are the same as lots of items on worlds markets.
ALL same spec’s. ALL different dimensions to restrict your buying to “THEIR” battery’s only.
I have 3 x names of 26650 here. ALL different sizes.
Bloody ridiculous.
We won’t get into the 18650’s “fire” and otherwise.

NotaWackjob.
IF the battery mfg’s got together it would fix all the problem
While torch put out a batch of overlength thread rear ends till system has time to sort itself out hey.
Dia, that’s the batt mfg fault.
I’m lucky in that all my torches take all my battery’s.

EDCba · 2018-11-06T11:54:10.000Z

What’s even more stupid is some of Nitecore’s batteries don’t even fit in their own lights.

Barkuti · 2018-11-06T11:55:51.000Z

Standard cylindrical cells were not meant to have wrap built in battery management systems (protection circuits), rather the devices which make use of them should take care.

There are some choices if one looks for them. I also like fully regulated drivers a lot, although the mainstream trend only looks into that when forced (driving 2S emitters with 1S cells, for example).

Take care.

:-)

Muto · 2018-11-06T14:32:04.000Z

nottawhackjob wrote;

“Yeah butt if I have to borrow your protected 18650 batt in an emergency I could be SOL. I guess I’m asking for too much. :laughing: ”

If it’s an emergency then you get out your pocket knife and cut the protection circuit off the battery. Problem solved.

nottawhackjob · 2018-11-06T15:13:02.000Z

Muto:

nottawhackjob wrote;

“Yeah butt if I have to borrow your protected 18650 batt in an emergency I could be SOL. I guess I’m asking for too much. :laughing: ”

If it’s an emergency then you get out your pocket knife and cut the protection circuit off the battery. Problem solved.

Enderman might take umbrage if I mutilated one of his protected cells that he never has on him anyway. Ya know it’s the thought that counts. Here’s yer ghost batt back, Endy.

Kidding aside your emergency solution is one answer butt not something ya wanna do if you don’t know what you’re doing. And If you don’t know where to cut off the circuit you’re still SOL - much less if you don’t have a knife on ya.

Butt you could always bite off the circuit like Chuck Norris does. Spit it out, shove in the saliva cell, and continue fighting off the zombie horde. He can do it, hey we can do it. :laughing:

Btw, could ya show us how to pics?