Just did this for fun

twisted_raven · 2018-07-07T16:13:30.000Z

Tail clicky for me, or a twisty head. Adding a button on the side would take away from the tube aesthetic.

hIKARInoob · 2018-07-07T16:16:32.000Z

djozz · 2018-07-07T16:28:16.000Z

I like it, get me one of those please

It is pretty close to ideal for me too, I have a love for small throwers and have built quite a few. But I like a waist in a flashlight so my choice would be a 18650 battery.

Can’t find back the led type though, I would expect a Compact PL but the partnr. is different.

SKV89 · 2018-07-07T16:50:20.000Z

Wow 250kcd at the size = instant buy! Please pitch this design to a manufacturer to turn this into reality!

Enderman · 2018-07-07T17:31:56.000Z

twisted raven:

Tail clicky for me, or a twisty head. Adding a button on the side would take away from the tube aesthetic.

Hmm true, the problem is that a tail clicky would add like 10mm more and also remove the magnet at the back.
I was thinking maybe hiding it below the sliding head, like the USB port, but that would be inconvenient.
I will research twisty head mechanisms and circuitry to see if it’s possible to fit that in the 5mm of space there is

hIKARInoob:

Haha

djozz:

I like it, get me one of those please

It is pretty close to ideal for me too, I have a love for small throwers and have built quite a few. But I like a waist in a flashlight so my choice would be a 18650 battery.

Can’t find back the led type though, I would expect a Compact PL but the partnr. is different.

The LED is just newly released, basically the successor to the black flat.

Future development of the maximum luminance of LEDs Flashlight Modding and DIY Parts

Ok so I found out two things: 1) The KW CSLNM1.TG (image A) has a smaller lm and cd value than the KW CELNM1.TG (Image B) simply because the datasheet has a larger bin range for the second one. The website then lists the average lumens and candela as the (min+max) / 2 making it seem like the CELNM is better. image A, CSLNM) [image] image B, CELNM) [image] Even though the CELNM may have a higher bin, we likely will never have a chance to purchase those anyway, so effectively it is the same as…

Neutral center pad, no corner notch, flat top surface, better thermal performance.
https://octopart.com/search?q=KW%20CSLNM1.TG&start=0
Currently not available in small quantities, but the flashlight isn’t something I’m going to build any time soon…

SKV89:

Wow 250kcd at the size = instant buy! Please pitch this design to a manufacturer to turn this into reality!

Yeah it’s like that acebeam W10 but with an LED instead of laser phosphor
I think this is a very specific custom flashlight for my use case, not many manufacturers will make an expensive flashlight that few people will buy.
The wavien collar alone is over $50, and the professional quality lens is about $300.

Agro · 2019-02-15T07:39:45.000Z

How do you secure the lens so it doesn’t fall out of the front? I’m not nitpicking. I’ve been asking myself the question: how does one mount a rimless lens. I failed to find a good answer and just noticed that you use one here….

Firelight2 · 2019-02-15T08:25:29.000Z

Cool idea. A zoomie with a Wavien collar!

This should give considerably better throw than a comparable aspheric zoomie without the collar.

However the collar would have a downside: “Flood mode” when the lens is retracted is going to be VERY narrow. This is because the collar blocks some of the flood beam from hitting the sides of the lens and because it forces the lens to stand off from the LED.

To fix this, the collar itself should be put on a sliding sleave that sits inside the outer bezel. When the bezel is retracted the collar could sit behind the LED. When the bezel is extended, the collar would extend into the proper position to reflect onto the LED.

Of course this would be even more complex to make though. And would make for quite a large EDC.

Also from looking at the cutaway: In addition to adding a switch, you also need to add a retaining ring to prevent the bezel from falling off the light when extended into spot mode.

Enderman · 2019-02-15T18:26:38.000Z

Agro:

How do you secure the lens so it doesn’t fall out of the front? I’m not nitpicking. I’ve been asking myself the question: how does one mount a rimless lens. I failed to find a good answer and just noticed that you use one here….

Press fit or little bit of epoxy, or both.
If I had a ledge on the front or retaining ring or something that would reduce the usable aperture, and I wanted to have as much throw as possible.

Firelight2:

Cool idea. A zoomie with a Wavien collar!

This should give considerably better throw than a comparable aspheric zoomie without the collar.

However the collar would have a downside: “Flood mode” when the lens is retracted is going to be VERY narrow. This is because the collar blocks some of the flood beam from hitting the sides of the lens and because it forces the lens to stand off from the LED.

To fix this, the collar itself should be put on a sliding sleave that sits inside the outer bezel. When the bezel is retracted the collar could sit behind the LED. When the bezel is extended, the collar would extend into the proper position to reflect onto the LED.

Of course this would be even more complex to make though. And would make for quite a large EDC.

Also from looking at the cutaway: In addition to adding a switch, you also need to add a retaining ring to prevent the bezel from falling off the light when extended into spot mode.

You’re right, the flood mode is limited quite a bit due to the collar.
I considered having the collar move with the head, so that it could completely zoom out, but that made it much more complex and also made the light longer, since it would need another 20mm of extension.
The collar will also not be working at any time other than completely zoomed in.

Even with the limited focus range it can still zoom out to ~30 degrees which will give an actually usable spot at close distances less than 100m.
Not bad considering most flashlights and zoomies are 60 degree flood.

Also, I was thinking the o-rings would be stiff enough to prevent the metal ledge on the head portion from sliding off.
How else would I put the head on if there was a retaining edge on the body?

clientequator · 2019-02-15T18:27:10.000Z

Hello Mr. Enderman,

Thank you for sharing this very interesting flashlight! I am curious about the detail:

1) Why not use newer 21700 battery? I think this can make flashlight more easy to carry because it is narrow

2) I notice you say LD_A4 driver for ‘max efficiency’ - but because it is linear driver, dont it mean ‘least efficiency’? You will need buck or buck boost driver for more efficiency, especially at your desire drive current it is quite low. Maybe someone on the forum can help design one! Is there a buck boost driver design by BLF member here?

Hope this can become product in the future. Mr. Enderman I really love your amazing throw-beam project! Good work and very inspired!

chadvone · 2019-02-15T18:33:45.000Z

I just noticed this today. I really like it.

ImA4Wheelr · 2019-02-15T18:35:11.000Z

Very exciting design! So much goodness. This needs to go into production and bare your name.

LouieAtienza · 2019-02-15T18:36:49.000Z

Enderman:

Also, I was thinking the o-rings would be stiff enough to prevent the metal ledge on the head portion from sliding off.
How else would I put the head on if there was a retaining edge on the body?

You could do it the way all the cheap zoomies are made - by having a threaded pill hold the O-rings as well as retain the slider in place. You could then either (a) insert the lens last, or (b) use the friction of the o-ring to get the pill threaded down, then finish tightening it from the inside of the tube by turning it counter-clockwise.

For the lens, you could machine a very shallow groove into the inside of the head, heat it and place the lens. It would take almost nothing to retain the lens sufficiently

Enderman · 2019-02-15T19:22:55.000Z

clientequator:

Hello Mr. Enderman,
Thank you for sharing this very interesting flashlight! I am curious about the detail:

Why not use newer 21700 battery? I think this can make flashlight more easy to carry because it is narrow

I notice you say LD_A4 driver for ‘max efficiency’ - but because it is linear driver, dont it mean ‘least efficiency’? You will need buck or buck boost driver for more efficiency, especially at your desire drive current it is quite low. Maybe someone on the forum can help design one! Is there a buck boost driver design by BLF member here?
Hope this can become product in the future. Mr. Enderman I really love your amazing throw-beam project! Good work and very inspired!

Thanks I like 26650 because it’s the highest capacity you can get in a standard cell right now, almost 6000mAh.
If I used 21700 I wouldn’t be able to fit a collar and lens in a thinner tube.

You’re right, ideally I would use a buck driver, but those usually require .5v or more battery voltage over the led voltage, so I would need a very low Vf LED.

LouieAtienza:

You could do it the way all the cheap zoomies are made - by having a threaded pill hold the O-rings as well as retain the slider in place. You could then either (a) insert the lens last, or (b) use the friction of the o-ring to get the pill threaded down, then finish tightening it from the inside of the tube by turning it counter-clockwise.
For the lens, you could machine a very shallow groove into the inside of the head, heat it and place the lens. It would take almost nothing to retain the lens sufficiently

That’s a great idea, having it heat expanded and contracted.
I was trying to minimize the parts though for rigidity and also heat sinking, which is why I didn’t want a separate pill from the body.

ImA4Wheelr:

Very exciting design! So much goodness. This needs to go into production and bare your name.

chadvone:

I just noticed this today. I really like it.

Thanks

Firelight2 · 2019-02-15T19:44:01.000Z

Enderman:

Firelight2:

Cool idea. A zoomie with a Wavien collar!

This should give considerably better throw than a comparable aspheric zoomie without the collar.

However the collar would have a downside: “Flood mode” when the lens is retracted is going to be VERY narrow. This is because the collar blocks some of the flood beam from hitting the sides of the lens and because it forces the lens to stand off from the LED.

To fix this, the collar itself should be put on a sliding sleave that sits inside the outer bezel. When the bezel is retracted the collar could sit behind the LED. When the bezel is extended, the collar would extend into the proper position to reflect onto the LED.

Of course this would be even more complex to make though. And would make for quite a large EDC.

Also from looking at the cutaway: In addition to adding a switch, you also need to add a retaining ring to prevent the bezel from falling off the light when extended into spot mode.

You’re right, the flood mode is limited quite a bit due to the collar.
I considered having the collar move with the head, so that it could completely zoom out, but that made it much more complex and also made the light longer, since it would need another 20mm of extension.
The collar will also not be working at any time other than completely zoomed in.

Even with the limited focus range it can still zoom out to ~30 degrees which will give an actually usable spot at close distances less than 100m.
Not bad considering most flashlights and zoomies are 60 degree flood.

Also, I was thinking the o-rings would be stiff enough to prevent the metal ledge on the head portion from sliding off.
How else would I put the head on if there was a retaining edge on the body?

For an innner sleeve to hold the wavien collar, all you need is a weak spring behind it extending the sleeve and collar into position, and a stop so it stops extending at the right point. In flood mode the retracted bezel or lens retaining ring would then push the collar behind the LED.

For the bezel: I have a zoomie that does not have any stop to prevent the bezel coming off. In practice it does not work well. When you want spot mode, you want to be able to quickly pull the bezel forward and have it stop at max throw. You don’t want to have to think about having to manually focus it in each time… or pull too hard and have your light pull apart.

The most common way to do this is the following: The front of the bezel is a lens retaining ring. Unscrew it and the lens comes out the front. With the lens removed from the bezel, you can then reach into the light and unscrew the pill or retaining ring using snap-ring pliers. The pill or retaining ring has a lip that sticks out and prevens the bezel from extending too far.

If you’re serious about possibly producing this design, I recommend purchasing a cheap zoomie flashlight and taking it apart. You’ll instantly see what I’m talking about and why it’s helpful.

Other issues to consider:

Will the light be airtight? - it looks like from the drawing you have o-rings sealing all ports of entry except maybe the USB port. Push-pull zoomies face a perhaps unexpecxted complication when made airtight:

Retracting or extending the bezel changes the internal volume of the light. If you put in the battery and seal the light, air pressure inside the light will match that outside the light. But if you then move the bezel out of position from what it was when the light was sealed, the internal air pressure inside the light will change. Air pressure inside the light will then try to equalize with air pressure outside the light. The result:

After you seal up the light by putting in the battery, equalizing air pressure will cause the sliding bezel to retract or extend into whatever position it was in when the light was sealed.
If you put in the battery or closed the USB port cover when the bezel was extended and then retract the bezel, air pressure will either eject the USB port cover or cause the bezel to automatically extend.

This is why most budget zoom flashlights are intentionally not airtight. They might contain o-ring slots for all openings, but usually one o-ring is missing so air pressure inside and outside can equalize for smooth zoom action.

To prevent this problem and still have an air-tight light you need a VERY stiff zoom mechanism. In practice, I haven’t seen any push-pull zoomies that are truly watertight. The only zoomies that are tend to have a bezel that screws and unscrews and are stiff enough to require two hands to cycle.

You would have an added complication of a USB port. A standard rubber USB port cover probably wouldn’t be sufficient unless the jack itself is watertight and sealed off from the rest of the light even when the cover is off. Or you could use a sliding cylindrical cover with o-rings to protect the port instead of the standard rubber cover. Or you could just leave an opening somewhere in the light so air pressure can equalize.

Enderman · 2019-02-15T19:51:56.000Z

Firelight2:

For an innner sleeve to hold the wavien collar, all you need is a weak spring behind it extending the sleeve and collar into position, and a stop so it stops extending at the right point. In flood mode the retracted bezel or lens retaining ring would then push the collar behind the LED.

For the bezel: I have a zoomie that does not have any stop to prevent the bezel coming off. In practice it does not work well. When you want spot mode, you want to be able to quickly pull the bezel forward and have it stop at max throw. You don’t want to have to think about having to manually focus it in each time… or pull too hard and have your light pull apart.

The most common way to do this is the following: The front of the bezel is a lens retaining ring. Unscrew it and the lens comes out the front. With the lens removed from the bezel, you can then reach into the light and unscrew the pill or retaining ring using snap-ring pliers. The pill or retaining ring has a lip that sticks out and prevens the bezel from extending too far.

If you’re serious about possibly producing this design, I recommend purchasing a cheap zoomie flashlight and taking it apart. You’ll instantly see what I’m talking about and why it’s helpful.

Other issues to consider:

Will the light be airtight? - it looks like from the drawing you have o-rings sealing all ports of entry except maybe the USB port. Push-pull zoomies face a perhaps unexpecxted complication when made airtight:

Retracting or extending the bezel changes the internal volume of the light. If you put in the battery and seal the light, air pressure inside the light will match that outside the light. But if you then move the bezel out of position from what it was when the light was sealed, the internal air pressure inside the light will change. Air pressure inside the light will then try to equalize with air pressure outside the light. The result:

After you seal up the light by putting in the battery, equalizing air pressure will cause the sliding bezel to retract or extend into whatever position it was in when the light was sealed.

If you put in the battery or closed the USB port cover when the bezel was extended and then retract the bezel, air pressure will either eject the USB port cover or cause the bezel to automatically extend.

This is why most budget zoom flashlights are intentionally not airtight. They might contain o-ring slots for all openings, but usually one o-ring is missing so air pressure inside and outside can equalize for smooth zoom action.

To prevent this problem and still have an air-tight light you need a VERY stiff zoom mechanism. In practice, I haven’t seen any push-pull zoomies that are truly watertight. The only zoomies that are tend to have a bezel that screws and unscrews and are stiff enough to require two hands to cycle.

You would have an added complication of a USB port. A standard rubber USB port cover probably wouldn’t be sufficient unless the jack itself is watertight and sealed off from the rest of the light even when the cover is off. Or you could use a sliding cylindrical cover with o-rings to protect the port instead of the standard rubber cover. Or you could just leave an opening somewhere in the light so air pressure can equalize.

Yeah I have many zoomies here I’ve taken apart.
This design is not airtight, there would be a hole around the push button switch, in the head of the flashlight, and then air would travel through the holes where the wires go to the LED.
A more complex option would be to have a fixed length flashlight but with the interior parts moving, so that it would remain constant volume and could be 100% IP68.
A lot of good ideas

Also this is a waterproof USB port I added in, there would be no need for a cover.
Just the sliding head mechanism to protect it from dirt when in storage.

Firelight2 · 2019-02-15T20:23:13.000Z

Enderman:

….
A more complex option would be to have a fixed length flashlight but with the interior parts moving, so that it would remain constant volume and could be 100% IP68…

There’s an idea.

There are a number of cheap zoom flashlights that do not change external volume. To cycle the zoom the operator turns a ring that causes the pill with the star on it to go up and down inside the light. However, this does have some disadvantages:

Not at all airtight - there is a mechanical gearing system and ring that is completely exposed. Air and water can get inside around the ring.
Thermal management - the star sits on a little platform that moves up and down. This system has extremely poor transfer of heat to the outside of the light. The platform cannot be too tight against the sides of the light or the system will jam.
Wires - each time the platform moves up and down the driver wires compress or extend. I haven’t tested it, but that certainly doesn’t sound like a system that would last for the long-term. How long would it be before one of those wires or solder joints failed?
Size - The internal volume of the light must be big enough to accomodate flood mode with the gap between the lens and LED at the focal length of the lens. This makes for a big zoom light that cannot retract into a more compact and convenient size for pocket carry.

Many of these problems could potentially be fixed, but I don’t think anyone has tried yet. Maybe a magnetic system, extra o-rings around the ring, or a motor to operate the zoom to reduce openings to the outside. Maybe conductive tracks instead of bending wires for durability. Maybe make the platform entirely of copper to help out in heat conduction.

I remember watching a demonstration video about a product some company was developing 5 or 6 years ago that looked really cool. Unfortunately I didn’t make note of the company and have never heard of them again. I guess they failed.

The product was a flexible lens. In one configuration it operated like a flat window. But rotate the collar around it and it squeezed the lens into the shape of a functional aspheric. In the video they even used it on a demonstration flashlight showing how it could go from spot to flood with the only moving part being how the lens was squeezed. looked pretty neat. Too bad that didn’t take off. If it worked, just about every flashlight could be a zoomie.

LouieAtienza · 2019-02-15T22:45:41.000Z

Firelight2:

Enderman:

….
A more complex option would be to have a fixed length flashlight but with the interior parts moving, so that it would remain constant volume and could be 100% IP68…

There’s an idea.

There are a number of cheap zoom flashlights that do not change external volume. To cycle the zoom the operator turns a ring that causes the pill with the star on it to go up and down inside the light. However, this does have some disadvantages:

Not at all airtight - there is a mechanical gearing system and ring that is completely exposed. Air and water can get inside around the ring.

Thermal management - the star sits on a little platform that moves up and down. This system has extremely poor transfer of heat to the outside of the light. The platform cannot be too tight against the sides of the light or the system will jam.

Wires - each time the platform moves up and down the driver wires compress or extend. I haven’t tested it, but that certainly doesn’t sound like a system that would last for the long-term. How long would it be before one of those wires or solder joints failed?

Size - The internal volume of the light must be big enough to accomodate flood mode with the gap between the lens and LED at the focal length of the lens. This makes for a big zoom light that cannot retract into a more compact and convenient size for pocket carry.

Many of these problems could potentially be fixed, but I don’t think anyone has tried yet. Maybe a magnetic system, extra o-rings around the ring, or a motor to operate the zoom to reduce openings to the outside. Maybe conductive tracks instead of bending wires for durability. Maybe make the platform entirely of copper to help out in heat conduction.

I remember watching a demonstration video about a product some company was developing 5 or 6 years ago that looked really cool. Unfortunately I didn’t make note of the company and have never heard of them again. I guess they failed.

The product was a flexible lens. In one configuration it operated like a flat window. But rotate the collar around it and it squeezed the lens into the shape of a functional aspheric. In the video they even used it on a demonstration flashlight showing how it could go from spot to flood with the only moving part being how the lens was squeezed. looked pretty neat. Too bad that didn’t take off. If it worked, just about every flashlight could be a zoomie.

You could also do the opposite - the lens is fixed to an inner sleeve of Delrin or such which has grooves that coincide with bushings in the body (that the sleeve can slide past the pill.) There are also 2 guide pins on opposite sides of the inner sleeve. The head would “snap” into place with Delrin bushing and o-ring, that it can only rotate. Two helical grooves are cut inside the head and register the pins on the inner sleeve. So a twist of the head would cause the lens to move in and out. Basically an upside-down lipstick tube…

It would be complicated to machine, but the action of watching the lens magically slide in and out would be so freaking cool!

Firelight2 · 2019-02-15T22:48:15.000Z

LouieAtienza:

You could also do the opposite - the lens is fixed to an inner sleeve of Delrin or such which has grooves that coincide with bushings in the body (that the sleeve can slide past the pill.) There are also 2 guide pins on opposite sides of the inner sleeve. The head would “snap” into place with Delrin bushing and o-ring, that it can only rotate. Two helical grooves are cut inside the head and register the pins on the inner sleeve. So a twist of the head would cause the lens to move in and out. Basically an upside-down lipstick tube…

It would be complicated to machine, but the action of watching the lens magically slide in and out would be so freaking cool!

Maybe have the lens in a steel mount that can slide on a track up and down. An outer glass window in front of the lens would keep everything airtight. Then you could have an external sleeve with strong magnets inside operate the zoom. The magnets would attract to the lens mount.

LouieAtienza · 2019-02-15T23:19:26.000Z

Firelight2:

LouieAtienza:

You could also do the opposite - the lens is fixed to an inner sleeve of Delrin or such which has grooves that coincide with bushings in the body (that the sleeve can slide past the pill.) There are also 2 guide pins on opposite sides of the inner sleeve. The head would “snap” into place with Delrin bushing and o-ring, that it can only rotate. Two helical grooves are cut inside the head and register the pins on the inner sleeve. So a twist of the head would cause the lens to move in and out. Basically an upside-down lipstick tube…

It would be complicated to machine, but the action of watching the lens magically slide in and out would be so freaking cool!

Maybe have the lens in a steel mount that can slide on a track up and down. An outer glass window in front of the lens would keep everything airtight. Then you could have an external sleeve with strong magnets inside operate the zoom. The magnets would attract to the lens mount.

Or even, just have the lipstick mechanism on the bottom, and put the lens on a non-moving outer sleeve.

But what I’d expect Enderman to do is an internal differential-screw setup run off a micro servomotor, using capacitive buttons on the exterior to control the light and lens via hand gestures. Then incorporate a laser rangefinder so that the lens can be set to auto-zoom. An internal barometer can open or close a bleeder valve to equalize air pressure in the optics chamber…

Firelight2 · 2019-02-15T23:26:04.000Z

LouieAtienza:

Firelight2:

LouieAtienza:

You could also do the opposite - the lens is fixed to an inner sleeve of Delrin or such which has grooves that coincide with bushings in the body (that the sleeve can slide past the pill.) There are also 2 guide pins on opposite sides of the inner sleeve. The head would “snap” into place with Delrin bushing and o-ring, that it can only rotate. Two helical grooves are cut inside the head and register the pins on the inner sleeve. So a twist of the head would cause the lens to move in and out. Basically an upside-down lipstick tube…

It would be complicated to machine, but the action of watching the lens magically slide in and out would be so freaking cool!

Maybe have the lens in a steel mount that can slide on a track up and down. An outer glass window in front of the lens would keep everything airtight. Then you could have an external sleeve with strong magnets inside operate the zoom. The magnets would attract to the lens mount.

Or even, just have the lipstick mechanism on the bottom, and put the lens on a non-moving outer sleeve.

But what I’d expect Enderman to do is an internal differential-screw setup run off a micro servomotor, using capacitive buttons on the exterior to control the light and lens via hand gestures. Then incorporate a laser rangefinder so that the lens can be set to auto-zoom. An internal barometer can open or close a bleeder valve to equalize air pressure in the optics chamber…

Hahah! So fun thinking of what features we’d want in an EDC even if some are off the deep end.

One feature I’d like to see in an EDC light is an infrared sensor that set to detect objects within say 10cm in front of the light, combined with firmware that prevents the light from turning on when the sensor trips. With such a system, I would never need to worry about accidental pocket activation again.

If my Emisar D4 had such a feature I’d have saved a couple pockets from having holes burnt in them. It would also make it safe to turn off even a high-powered light in in turbo mode and put it in your pocket. It would even be practical to have an EDC light with a protruding soft-touch side switch. No need to lockout either as the light would know it’s in your pocket and would not turn on even if the button is depressed.