KLARUS OFFICIAL DECLARATION

Caleb · 2019-05-28T14:30:50.000Z

I think that would be a totally different kind of website… not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Lightbringer · 2019-05-28T14:39:30.000Z

Leif:

It’s quite normal in retail for a brand to restrict sales to authorised dealers. Selling lights cheaply destroys the authorised dealer network and hence the brand. Why should an authorised dealer in the US buy large numbers of lights to sell when someone in China sells them at half the price, and the US dealer ends up with a big pile of unsold lights?

I was just kinda munching popcorn and watching the fireworks show, but I was just wondering…

How would a seller in China get a supply of Klarus lights to sell, if they’re not counterfeit?

If counterfeit, then the S/Ns wouldn’t match up, and fine, wash yer hands of any bogus lights.

If legit…?

The “discount seller” had to get them from somewhere.

Couchmaster · 2019-05-28T16:15:03.000Z

Jennifer from Klarus said:

“For your flashlight, after several checking, we still cannot find the series number on our system, so we cannot make sure if it is from our factory. Anyway, we will specially apply to our company to send you a head part as you are Klarus fans and we really understand your situation.”

I had read the BLF Klarus counterfeit link I posted above to be that Klarus could not find the serial number (so it was a counterfeit) BUT, they didn’t want someone bad mouthing them over it so they sent a used replacement head anyway. So maybe or maybe not. Like Lightbringer noted, if you buy a “Bolex” or a fake Rolex and want Rolex to give you free parts to fix it when it breaks, and they send you the parts (as Klarus did in this case), then that’s above and beyond. Sure they can better Klarify where to get “genuine” Klarus flashlights and I’m willing to give them some time for that. I don’t support fakes and it pisses me off to see those kinds of ripoffs anywhere. Klarus is clearly trying to deal with fake Klarus products, and maybe that’s more difficult than we think it is, but IF that’s the case here and it appears to be, I’m supportive of their efforts. Even if they need to fine tune them.

Regards to all: PS (Racoon -no offense meant)

Hugh_Johnson · 2019-05-28T16:49:43.000Z

That’s an interesting perspective. There’s been a lot of criticism of their announcement and there could be other interpretations, as you have outlined.

Still, it seems odd that they make the announcement and then don’t respond to the comments. It seems like there could be good explanations that are conspicuously missing.

What I’m not able to get past is critically leveraging murdered people for marketing.

BlueSwordM · 2019-05-28T16:53:49.000Z

Hmm, I wonder if Klarus is just doing this to not fulfill warranties from stores which do not provide them with enough profit…

CREEXHP70LED · 2019-05-28T16:54:27.000Z

Well, you can always copy serial numbers that are actually legitimate and laser engrave them onto a fake light. All you need is someone to supply the numbers. You might end up with many lights with the same numbers but why do the Chinese care when they take real Heineken beer bottles along with every other beverage and food product and recycle the real containers fill them with piss and recap them very good I might add and then put them back in their cases and hot glue them shut. Look on YouTube, The only thing Chinese can do is counterfeit everything. Your food, water, beer, cells, lights, clothes, medicine. That is how they work there.

Then you have diversion, mainly in the drug trade of legal pharmaceuticals from India, Pakistan and China. So well counterfeited and even in blister packs, that even Pfizer cannot tell the difference until put into a gas chromatography mass spectrometer.

China makes it’s money copying everyone else’s IP, even their own countries. Pathetic.

FlashPilot · 2019-05-29T04:39:46.000Z

They obviously have no ability of seeing past the smoke smoldering from their own crack pipes. Beyond addressing potential warranty claims to repair another one of their lemons, I think we’ve all learned that its best to avoid any future dealings with them all together. Most of their grossly overpriced products will remain unsold on ebay for years to come, just as they always have.

Let us never forget the true nature of extreme stupidity, false advertising and a complete disregard for human empathy:
https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/a0n88o/klarus_with_a_strong_entry_for_the_most_tasteless/

Leif · 2019-05-29T12:09:10.000Z

Caleb:

ZoomieFan:

Caleb:

Uh, I’m not sure how your mind translated anything in my comments into me needing a bribe.

My guess it’s this:

I am sure that a substantial BLF discount code for Klarus authorized dealers would change some opinions…

By this definition every discount, coupon code, sale, group buy, and give away is a bribe. We may as well change the name of this forum to Bribe Light Forum.

That is indeed the statement from you that indicates that a bribe creates inner peace and nice words for Klarus.

Bribe Light Forum? That might be appropriate. Let’s see if the owner agrees …

As far as I can see, part of the reason for discount codes is to get samples of a new light into the market, and generate positive feedback. Another reason may be to sell lights which are not selling as well as expected. And then some just want to sell lights …

raccoon · 2019-05-29T12:12:08.000Z

Couchmaster:

Regards to all: PS (Racoon -no offense meant)

No offense meant your way either.

I'm upset with Klarus, not you, but I've said more than enough on the subject.

FlashPilot · 2019-05-29T19:58:34.000Z

Let loose the rabid raccoons! That’ll teach em a good lesson!

FlashPilot · 2019-06-06T06:21:59.000Z

Leif:

Caleb:

ZoomieFan:

Caleb:

Uh, I’m not sure how your mind translated anything in my comments into me needing a bribe.

My guess it’s this:

I am sure that a substantial BLF discount code for Klarus authorized dealers would change some opinions…

By this definition every discount, coupon code, sale, group buy, and give away is a bribe. We may as well change the name of this forum to Bribe Light Forum.

That is indeed the statement from you that indicates that a bribe creates inner peace and nice words for Klarus.

Bribe Light Forum? That might be appropriate. Let’s see if the owner agrees …

As far as I can see, part of the reason for discount codes is to get samples of a new light into the market, and generate positive feedback. Another reason may be to sell lights which are not selling as well as expected. And then some just want to sell lights …

You hit the nail right on the head and we see it done constantly. Probably the greatest negative about this forum is that its provided an attractive safe haven for dozens of shills & affiliate code parasites that couldn’t peddle their crap over at the other site. I good hard drop kick to the klarus should remedy the situation. That, or have it sewn completely shut!

CREEXHP70LED · 2019-06-01T20:19:55.000Z

FlashPilot:

Leif:

Caleb:

ZoomieFan:

Caleb:

Uh, I’m not sure how your mind translated anything in my comments into me needing a bribe.

My guess it’s this:

I am sure that a substantial BLF discount code for Klarus authorized dealers would change some opinions…

By this definition every discount, coupon code, sale, group buy, and give away is a bribe. We may as well change the name of this forum to Bribe Light Forum.

That is indeed the statement from you that indicates that a bribe creates inner peace and nice words for Klarus.

Bribe Light Forum? That might be appropriate. Let’s see if the owner agrees …

As far as I can see, part of the reason for discount codes is to get samples of a new light into the market, and generate positive feedback. Another reason may be to sell lights which are not selling as well as expected. And then some just want to sell lights …

You hit the nail right on the head and we see it done constantly. Probably the greatest negatives about this forum is that its provided an attractive safe haven for dozens of shills & affiliate code parasites that couldnt peddle their crap over at the other site. I good hard drop kick to the klarus should remedy the situation. That, or have it sewn completely shut!

The other forum seems to be interested in higher quality lights. (Look at the size of the Malkoff and Elzetta threads). Not really a good place for very many Chinese companies.

willc68 · 2019-06-02T14:33:01.000Z

CREEXHP70LED:

Well, you can always copy serial numbers that are actually legitimate and laser engrave them onto a fake light. All you need is someone to supply the numbers. You might end up with many lights with the same numbers but why do the Chinese care when they take real Heineken beer bottles along with every other beverage and food product and recycle the real containers fill them with piss and recap them very good I might add and then put them back in their cases and hot glue them shut. Look on YouTube, The only thing Chinese can do is counterfeit everything. Your food, water, beer, cells, lights, clothes, medicine. That is how they work there.

Then you have diversion, mainly in the drug trade of legal pharmaceuticals from India, Pakistan and China. So well counterfeited and even in blister packs, that even Pfizer cannot tell the difference until put into a gas chromatography mass spectrometer.

China makes it’s money copying everyone else’s IP, even their own countries. Pathetic.

Yet thousands of US companies continue to outsource and have their products manufactured there.

Lightbringer · 2019-06-02T17:14:53.000Z

willc68:

CREEXHP70LED:

China makes it’s money copying everyone else’s IP, even their own countries. Pathetic.

Yet thousands of US companies continue to outsource and have their products manufactured there.

Wellp, manufacturers are warned to not send complete designs overseas, unless they want them to be pir8ed. Eg, if you’re making a flashlight, you have to contract with company A to do the head, company B to do the battery-tube, C to do the tailcap, D to do the retaining-rings, the whole bit. Moreso with the electronix. And then hope they’re not all the same company anyway just in different locations with different names.

CREEXHP70LED · 2019-06-02T19:34:29.000Z

Lightbringer:

willc68:

CREEXHP70LED:

China makes it’s money copying everyone else’s IP, even their own countries. Pathetic.

Yet thousands of US companies continue to outsource and have their products manufactured there.

Wellp, manufacturers are warned to not send complete designs overseas, unless they want them to be pir8ed. Eg, if you’re making a flashlight, you have to contract with company A to do the head, company B to do the battery-tube, C to do the tailcap, D to do the retaining-rings, the whole bit. Moreso with the electronix. And then hope they’re not all the same company anyway just in different locations with different names.

I can tell you they do rip each other off even if they are not all the same company. I will no longer work with Chinese manufacturers at any degree. It is incomprehensible the sheer amount of work they go though to steal IP. Even if it is to make 1% or 2% profit. It is like they can not think for themselves. If they could they would make so much more profit.

Now… Where is my AceBeam X65 Mini at? lol.

Lightbringer · 2019-06-02T21:42:33.000Z

Wellp, I know of someone whose company proudly boasted “Made in USA” for as long as I could remember, but that suddenly and quietly disappeared. I’d been meaning to ask about that for a while, and eventually did.

Oh, what a tale of woe that was. Yeah, manufacturing prices here in the States were getting astronomical, with taxes, union wages, regulations/compliance, etc., all costing them more and more, to the point they felt that to “compete”, they had no choice but to shift some production overseas.

Everything was fine at first, but with one particular “specialty” product, once that went overseas, they started seeing exact clones of the product hit the shores before their first batch was even delivered to them!

Eventually, “competitors” started selling copies of even their not-particularly-special items.

Everything they kept in-house, were rarely if ever copied. Everything — and I mean everything — that they sent overseas, was cloned and sold back here for less, undercutting their own prices.

All sorts of NDAs and everything notwithstanding, how’re you gonna prove what you contracted out was stolen and mass-produced on the sneak? Mfr A subcontracts out to mfrs B and C, and they in turn farm out some work to mfrs D, E, and F, and so on. Each one points fingers at the other, but “nobody” is responsible/guilty of any misdeed. Death by a thousand cuts, each one denies making the fatal cut.

CREEXHP70LED · 2019-06-02T22:19:46.000Z

Lightbringer:

Wellp, I know of someone whose company proudly boasted “Made in USA” for as long as I could remember, but that suddenly and quietly disappeared. I’d been meaning to ask about that for a while, and eventually did.

Oh, what a tale of woe that was. Yeah, manufacturing prices here in the States were getting astronomical, with taxes, union wages, regulations/compliance, etc., all costing them more and more, to the point they felt that to “compete”, they had no choice but to shift some production overseas.

Everything was fine at first, but with one particular “specialty” product, once that went overseas, they started seeing exact clones of the product hit the shores before their first batch was even delivered to them!

Eventually, “competitors” started selling copies of even their not-particularly-special items.

Everything they kept in-house, were rarely if ever copied. Everything — and I mean everything — that they sent overseas, was cloned and sold back here for less, undercutting their own prices.

All sorts of NDAs and everything notwithstanding, how’re you gonna prove what you contracted out was stolen and mass-produced on the sneak? Mfr A subcontracts out to mfrs B and C, and they in turn farm out some work to mfrs D, E, and F, and so on. Each one points fingers at the other, but “nobody” is responsible/guilty of any misdeed. Death by a thousand cuts, each one denies making the fatal cut.

100% correct. They never would even think of honoring an NDA. Those get erased of servers and thrown in the trash. Clones copying clones over there.

Hugh_Johnson · 2019-06-05T21:31:10.000Z

We’re approaching 2 weeks since the original post. I find this particularly telling.

I don’t expect next day responses, although a company should probably take that initiative to reply to comments about their own post.

FlashPilot · 2019-06-06T06:30:00.000Z

After displaying such repeated gross incompetence, and then receiving several painful kicks directly to the klarus, they will hopefully fade into obscurity and never be heard from again.

Remember how those idiots bragged about strobe mode making everyone bullet proof? Maybe this happened to them while testing out their imbecilic theory against an AK47:

The moral of the story: don’t be a klarus by buying a klarus. Because in doing so, makes you a klarus… or something just as foolish.

Scallywag · 2019-06-06T18:17:11.000Z

All of the China discussion, while interesting and something that I definitely have opinions on, seems to be trending a bit political. And in order to really have the conversation, including addressing causes of certain factors, it would definitely become a very political conversation. So we'd probably be better off not heading down that road here.

As for discussing the negatives or positives of this forum compared to the other forum, I like it here. I try not to judge the pricing of lights that are popular elsewhere, because I do like nice things. I admit, though, it's hard not to think that there's more than just quality behind some of the price tags over there... Not that I'd dare say that there (and I'd have to register an account to do so, as I don't have one there), for fear of banishment. Not my kind of place in all honesty.

As far as the quality (price not-withstanding) of lights, here, there, or elsewhere, I try to leave that to the end-user to think about. I understand that USA manufacturing costs more, and I understand a lot about the reasons why (and again, I'm not going to discuss that here, because it gets political faster than my D4 heats up), and I don't fault people for supporting that. I also understand some companies have pricing concerns regarding lifetime warranties (and, hell, even warranties that are actually honored - wow, that got directly back to the thread topic quick), and I don't fault people for liking or supporting that either. But I do take a lot of issue with the "tactical" and "operator" mentality, as well as the attitude taken over there against people who question any of it.

As far as what kind of commercial accounts are allowed here, and the terms under which they're moderated, I don't really have any issues. I question the claim that this forum is contaminated with "dozens of shills & affiliate code parasites". Yes, there are some members who offer discounts to our forum members, and affiliate codes are part of that process. But if you're really taking issue with that process, there's a whole lot more internet you need to take on first. And here, it is confined to certain subforums that you don't ever have to visit if you don't want to. Me? I think Neal's Deals and freeme's offerings (and the others, too) have their place. I understand when I click freeme's link, that he's probably making money somehow. But at the same time, I couldn't go to banggood and say "give me a discount code for X" myself. Freeme? He can say "Look at this, all these people check my discount codes, give me some good ones and I'll bring you traffic and sales... and you can cut me in a little bit, too". Or any of the others. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that, it's paid advertising.

I understand the position Klarus has taken. I work for the largest North-American distributor of a product sold internationally, and though we are not the manufacturer, we provide the after-sales service. We also expect our authorized dealers to provide an initial level of service to their customers. Recently one of our dealers had been buying product from eBay from Australia, undercutting us. How do you think we felt when we were asked to provide service to that dealer? We of course refused, and the manufacturer backed us up. Klarus appears to be trying to do something similar, which I understand the basics of: protect your dealers and your pricing scheme and your customers. However, they did not do this in an effective manner, and their communication was also awful.

Klarus might instead have posted something like the following:

Klarus would like to advise their customers to only buy from authorized Klarus dealers. [insert resource to find an authorized dealer]. In particular, [list of websites] has been reported as sometimes selling counterfeit Klarus products, and these places are not authorized dealers. Buyer beware: If you buy from those places, they won't provide the kind of after-sales service you can expect from an authorized dealer. We can't guarantee the authenticity of the product, if you purchase from those dealers.

And then I'd probably combine it with a new product announcement and a "where to buy/when to buy" link or something.

As for myself, I haven't had issues with Banggood. I'm extremely wary of aliexpress, and I've only bought from a few confirmed legitimate stores there (like Jaxman and Convoy). I haven't used the other websites; in some cases because I'm just not familiar with them, but with fasttech and gearbest, it's because of what I've heard about them.