LED Panel Dimming help please.

Lumencraft-Matt · 2018-03-08T17:36:36.000Z

Hi all

I would like to use a set of these type panels.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01GEYU0O6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3UAFNSK1EIS6S&psc=1

I need to individually dim each one. Is there an alternative to the $35 each 0-10V LED dimmer switches that are recommenced?

I mean is this dimmer just a Pot or a PWM or is it more complicated than that?

Thanks.

cera · 2018-03-09T09:05:08.000Z

Hi VofB ,

Unfortunately , there are no other easy method to dim the panels ! This is the standard way to do it ! Home made PWM drivers are no easy task , time and lots of money consuming ...

I've got 2 of these panels (36W) , and I'd tried almost everything to avoid an expensive 0-10V dimer .., but nothing worked !

Basically , the panel is coming with his own constant current source , ( in my case , a 18-36W , 36-72 V , at 0.5 A ). In fact is a driver for leds ,with no PMW..!

The 0-10V dimer is a PWM driver , where the PWM is controlled by the voltage ( 0-10V). So , no PWM , no diming...

I know that is not what you want to hear , but this is the most elegant solution.., the price is somehow high , but think if you want to "fry" 2 panels that cost you 250$ , because spending another 60$ for dimmers looks ridiculous high...!

My suggestion is to go on this known path (installing these dimmers ) , to avoid an expensive loss...

Best regards !

cera · 2018-03-09T09:24:51.000Z

On a second , more carefully look to the panels you've got , I noticed that your's drivers are different from mine , and they has the "0-10V input " ( mine doesn't have this !...) , so , please look to the link , and try to use the solution with the potentiometer , you could have a chance ! Do not worry , if is not working , nothing else will happen ... Keep us posted...

DIMMER-NOTE.pdf

Lumencraft-Matt · 2018-03-09T20:11:18.000Z

Thanks cera. Can I get your opinion on this switch as well? Do you think it will work?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0076HPM8A?ref\_=pe_623860_70668520_dpLink&th=1

I don’t see any 0-10v on this switch, but for 14 bucks I thought it might be worth a look too.

Lightbringer · 2018-03-09T23:32:59.000Z

Sounds eerily similar to 4-20mA controllers, only using a 0V-10V voltage to control it, vs 4mA-20mA current.

If you got one already, you can try it out with a 9V battery and 100Ω potentiometer. It’ll only reach 90% brightness, of course, but you’ll know instantly if it’ll work.

If it works, use a meter and see how much current the the bugger draws at its input pin. If the current’s small, then you can make it battery-powered. If 90% brightness is okay with you, then a 9V battery will work. Otherwise, 12V and 3 diodes in series will drop that to ~10V.

It’s not as simple as a single pot, but it’s not much more’n that.

No idea if these dimmers are built into the wall like regular on/off / dimmer switches, or if you want something external.

cera · 2018-03-10T11:14:12.000Z

You're right Lightbringer ,

it is similar with 4-20mA industrial process loops controllers in analog systems , and along with the 0-10v controllers they are the standard process controls .The difference is that with 4-20mA is far more complicated to control PWM than with 0-10V , where by , just injecting on the inverting input of an comparator the 0-10V signal ( and having on the non inverting input the tooth saw signal from the oscillator ) , you can vary the PWM , at the output...

The idea with the 9V battery is good , and could be the second option if the one with the simple potentiometer does not work ! In fact ,is brilliant !

@ VofB :about the switch from your link...

As you know there are on the market led bulbs that are dimmable and some non dimmable.., I didn't have the chance , yet (!) , to open a dimmable one and see what is the solution for doing this , is a challenge I'm willing to accept as soon as I'll have one of those in my hand...

In the description of the product , the manufacturer are stating that is suitable for led and incandescent bulb !!!

If , for incandescent is easy to do it ( a triac , a diac and few more components...) , for led drivers are much more complicated , because of the following :

For incandescent loads the form of the wave is not critical , they will accept a square wave form with no problem and the armonics , created by the triac's switching ,will not affect the load ( bulb) .., except maybe , a small flickering at the lowest level...

For led bulbs with standard drives ( drivers acting like a switching power supply ) the wave form is mandatory sinusoidal , due to the diode bridge rectifier at their input.., so , using that kind of dimmer is not acceptable !

Also , I have to highlight the fact that , in the last years, the manufacturers managed to make dc-ac invertors with pure sinusoidal wave form.., so is possible , with proper miniaturization to obtain dimmers suitable for led dimming..!!!

I've tried to get a schematic diagram of those but , they protect the intellectual property ( for a good reason , I guess...). What I can assume is that at the price of ~ 14 $ , these dimmers suppose to be fitted for led dimming , as your panels appear to be. I do think that the 14$ dimmers will work ( if the first solution with the potentiometer , that is also the cheapest , would fail...)

Good luck , and tell us the story...

pedasunu_ave · 2018-03-24T09:57:09.000Z

it seems the dimmer unit is very specific to the luminaries themselves.

DavidEF · 2018-03-24T10:48:15.000Z

Are you sure you want those particular panels? It doesn’t seem that they are very efficient:

HIGH EFFICIENCY - Each 2 x 2 FT LED troffer panel light pushes the limits of standard light output in order to provide exceedingly optimal lighting with 5100 lumens, equivalent to 113 W/lm of high end efficiency.

At 113 watts per lumen, it would take 576,300 watts to use just ONE of these!

DavidEF · 2018-03-24T11:11:17.000Z

Seriously, though: I don’t think that switch will work VOB. It is a 120V switch. Your panel needs that 0-10V input. A potentiometer is probably going to work, but you really might be better off going for the elegant, yet more expensive, solution provided by the manufacturer.

If you’re interested, I have some (I think 0-12V) led dimmers that may work for you. IIRC, the power source was a separate component, so the dimmers themselves will probably work with a 10V source (which you’d supply) for effective 0-10V dimming. They have a potentiometer control, but also supporting electronics inside. So, they are a bit more elegant than just a pot control. They are made to be external, with cabled connections, not made to be installed in wall switch boxes. I can dig them out and see what the actual specs are if you want. I’m not using them. They were left over from a customer.

Edit: Oh, the reason that 120V switch won’t work is because of the dimming. Obviously, if all you were doing is switching on/off, a 120V switch would work fine between a 10V power source and 10V rated light panels. But, the 120V dimmer needs the 120V input, which your light panels wouldn’t survive.

Edit 2: Looking again, the light panels can be installed with 120V input. The 0-10V input is for dimmer operation. So, it is probably a bypass around the internal step-down circuit, which itself is possibly not dimmable.

Lumencraft-Matt · 2018-04-25T19:20:19.000Z

Just now I ordered 2 panels and a pair of the 36.00 switches. We’ll see how it goes.

DavidEF · 2018-04-25T19:56:01.000Z

Let us know how it goes. I am interested in how it actually works. Also would like to know how well it works for you.