LED test / review - Lumileds HL2X (1800 / 5700 K, typ. 80 / 90 CRI) - High power candle light LED!

James_C · 2023-08-20T00:07:32.582Z

Thanks for all the info! Beam shots of the 1800k?

koef3 · 2023-08-20T00:23:48.675Z

Maybe later, but tbh the beam is like 2700 K but a lot warmer. For outdoor I don’t recommend this 1800 K LED since everything is basically red and yellow, with only slight amounts of green and blue.

Maverick1947 · 2023-08-20T17:59:46.603Z

Hmm. I might give it a try! Since 1800k emitters are scarce.
I wonder what would happen if dedomed?!
1400k ??

Edit.
Mouser quoted me 35$ for shipping for a 1.5$ led… never mind lol!

koef3 · 2023-08-20T18:46:29.770Z

Maverick1947:

Mouser quoted me 35$ for shipping for a 1.5$ led… never mind lol!

Try to go over 50 euro/dollar per order (at least in the EU this saves you from these extreme high shipping fees)

The HL2X cannot be dedomed as easily since the phosphor is more or less ‘glued’ to the silicone dome. In case of removing the dome the phosphor is torn off the LES.
Slicing does not change the CCT.

For the XP-E2 in color kit ZA (2200 K) which I dedomed several years ago it goes down to around 1700 to 1800 K, so your assumption of 1400 K could be realistic. I think the spectrum looks more or less identical to the PC Amber type LEDs out there, with almost no blue in it, which makes the color rendition horrible…

thefreeman · 2023-08-20T18:56:56.537Z

Thanks for the test.

LED tester:

The cool white HL2X has a slight greenish tint, but this is not really annoying at any time. Outdoors, this is only really noticeable in direct comparison with an equivalent light source with a negative duv, which can also be seen in the pictures.

I wouldn’t call 0.0118 slightly greenish, that’s not even ANSI white which is 0.0090 max at 5700K, 5-step being ~0.0085 max, so according to the measurements it’s outside the specs.

How do you take the readings ? Spot from a reflector ? Or is it integrated ?

Maverick1947 · 2023-08-21T02:03:19.317Z

Was looking for a more budget friendly solution. But thanks for the tip! I’ll keep it mind!

To bad they can’t be dedomed easily. I became spoiled by the easiness of the 519a of dedoming

YBF650 · 2023-08-21T05:58:23.432Z

Very promising results for the 1800k version, I wonder how it compares to the 1800k versions of XP-G3 and 219F, both are only Ra70 so they might perform better at the cost of tint. Might make for an interesting swap into a D4v2.

Looks like the high-cct versions really are nothing special though.

koef3 · 2023-08-21T06:50:00.972Z

The XP-G3 did have the problem with extreme color fringing when using reflectors and also TIR lenses.

It is likely that the XP-G3 at 1800K will be less noticeable when used in optics. This XP-G3 at 70 CRI typ. should be about 15-20% more efficient, plus the advantage of better overcurrent capability comes into play (though the ultra-warm white types generally have lower overcurrent capability in my experience, but it should be still better than the HL2X tested here).

The 219F is hardly available in 1800 K, at least in the EU, because there are still no wholesalers in the EU where you can easily buy Nichia LEDs…

koef3 · 2023-08-21T07:30:55.504Z

thefreeman:

How do you take the readings ? Spot from a reflector ? Or is it integrated ?

Always integrated.

thefreeman · 2023-08-21T07:57:12.707Z

Do you apply correction factors on the SPD measured in your sphere ?
Maukka used an halogen bulb (uniform source), measured outside and inside the sphere, even his professional sphere needs correction for tint measurements, because while barium sulfate reflectance is very good across visible wavelengths, it’s not 100% uniform.
(Dunno if your sphere has barium sulfate paint or not)

Edit : -53K, +0.0021 without correction. CRI is also affected.

On another topic

You could do that with an incandescent bulb inside the sphere as well. I have calibrated my sphere with a Quartz Tungsten-Halogen Lamp. Without a correction there’s significant dropoff on some wavelengths.

YBF650 · 2023-08-21T11:06:36.783Z

IMO the most interesting aspect of them isn’t brightness, it would be tint, not much use for us to have a bright candlelight that is piss yellow in color.

I guess that would necessitate trying them out, since usually ultra-warm emitters end up pretty positive.

LED tester:

The 219F is hardly available in 1800 K, at least in the EU, because there are still no wholesalers in the EU where you can easily buy Nichia LEDs…

Maybe eurekatronix has some 1800k 219F, though shipping takes quite a while. A test of it, even if only tint and lumens would be extremely valuable IMO.

koef3 · 2023-08-21T11:22:33.494Z

thefreeman:

(Dunno if your sphere has barium sulfate paint or not)

No, I used titanium dioxide based paint, since barium sulfate based paint is not really available for consumers.

Thank you for the suggestions to make the measurements even better. I am currently looking for a certified lab to get some calibrated light sources with official paperwork according to the international standards, so I am able to improve the accuracy of my measurements (light flux in general, and spectral data).

YBF650:

Maybe eurekatronix has some 1800k 219F, though shipping takes quite a while. A test of it, even if only tint and lumens would be extremely valuable IMO.

Maybe, but even the webpage eurekatronix.com is not reachable (" Looks like this domain isn’t connected to a website yet").

And since I got still no info for a group-buy of Nichias from Clemence (via a user from german flashlight forum) I don’t want to order something there since I cannot be sure to get these LEDs in a reasonable amount of time (max. 4-6 weeks). Tbf I don’t know if this is because of the user in german TLF but reasonable delivery times are crucial since I want to use the LEDs at some time.

YBF650 · 2023-08-21T11:51:46.574Z

LED tester:

Maybe, but even the webpage eurekatronix.com is not reachable (" Looks like this domain isn’t connected to a website yet").

IIRC the website is down but the email is still live, pretty weird but it’s one of the only Nichia dealers that sells emitters to community members. Store wasn’t working for a while so you had to buy through email anyways.

thefreeman · 2023-08-21T11:54:23.254Z

LED tester:

No, I used titanium dioxide based paint, since barium sulfate based paint is not really available for consumers.

Screenshot_20230821_135031_Samsung Internet1551×1225 145 KB

So like BaSO4, TiO2 reflectivity decreases at shorter wavelength, but it’s more pronounced.
You can easily verify it with a random incandescent light since it should deviate from the black body reference.

koef3 · 2023-08-21T12:42:17.067Z

YBF650:

Store wasn’t working for a while so you had to buy through email anyways.

Is there a price list available (maybe as PDF)?
Is tracked shipping (for the much higher price, respectively) available? For getting the ordered parts in reasonable time the price is not the biggest issue for me.

Tbh, I am not really happy to order some parts via email and hope for the best…

thefreeman:

You can easily verify it with a random incandescent light since it should deviate from the black body reference.

If you know someone who sells ready-to-use barium sulfate based paint to consumers, I would appreciate it.
I can only work with the things I have access to.

I suspect that the accuracy and repeatability of the luxmeter plays more of a role here than the coating of the sphere. In the worst case, we’re talking about an 8-9 percent difference here (which means not the same amount of difference in light flux), which certainly has an influence, but I still don’t consider it to be that significant.

thefreeman:

You can easily verify it with a random incandescent light since it should deviate from the black body reference.

What difference should be expected there? Without a comparison value, I can hardly evaluate any differences…

koef3 · 2023-08-21T13:02:44.393Z

thefreeman:

Edit : -53K, +0.0021 without correction. CRI is also affected. […]

Interesting topic, but I cannot open this thread quoted by you.

thefreeman · 2023-08-21T13:34:58.864Z

LED tester:

If you know someone who sells ready-to-use barium sulfate based paint to consumers, I would appreciate it.

I don’t know, when I wanted to make my sphere I wanted to use readily available barium sulfate powder and an acrylic binder, I never finished it though…

Anyway i’m not saying you should use barium sulfate, but just apply a correction for the paint (as it would be needed as well with BaSO4)

LED tester:

What difference should be expected there? Without a comparison value, I can hardly evaluate any differences…

The reference is the incandescent bulb measured outside the sphere, since it emits the same light it every direction, it doesn’t need to be integrated, then you compare the direct vs integrated measurement, calculate the correction factors for each wavelength and apply it when you do color measurements in the sphere.
CT&A doesn’t have a correction function, you’ll have to do it in a spreadsheet or with a script. ArgyllCMS spotread has a correction function.

LED tester:

Interesting topic, but I cannot open this thread quoted by you.

It’s a private discussion, there isn’t more relevant info to quote.

YBF650 · 2023-08-21T14:17:20.623Z

LED tester:

Is there a price list available (maybe as PDF)?
Is tracked shipping (for the much higher price, respectively) available? For getting the ordered parts in reasonable time the price is not the biggest issue for me.

Here’s the price list I was sent, it might not be up to date though but it seems approximately $1 per emitter for an order of 219F-V1 in an unusual CCT would be likely.

erkx price list1425×5122 1010 KB

The default economy shipping ($15 Indonesia to Peru) was tracked, there’s probably also an option for faster (DHL, Fedex, UPS) shipping than regular mail if you request it.

thefreeman · 2023-08-21T14:31:17.467Z

About 11USD to Germany, tracked.

koef3 · 2023-08-21T16:13:12.339Z

thefreeman:

Anyway i’m not saying you should use barium sulfate, but just apply a correction for the paint (as it would be needed as well with BaSO4)

There were some press releases around that some ‘ultra-white’ paint with bariumsulfate was developed by a university, but this paint is not commercially available…
So I will stick to the titanium dioxide based paint, which was at least one of the best one I could get.

thefreeman:

CT&A doesn’t have a correction function, you’ll have to do it in a spreadsheet or with a script. ArgyllCMS spotread has a correction function.

Yes, I noted this already… I already asked a friend that he will create a script with real-time graphic output and fully automatic file output to keep the time needed as low as possible.

Thank you for the explanation. So I will basically measure the incandescent one time outside the sphere (point the spectrometer directly to the light source) and then inside the sphere to compare the reflectivity of the paint at different wavelengths?