Lexels Crowdfunding site on GoFundMe (similar to Patreon), still making a loss on driver sales with 10$ per hour labor

Lexel · 2019-04-30T06:26:59.000Z

I have choosen this site as the fees compared to Patreon are a lot lower
it is only costing the Paypal fees of 2.5% and 0.25€ per donation for Paypal and 5% or 1€ from the amount you donate for the website funding
while Patreon is taking 5% plus 19% EU VAT if you dont live in USA

I simply add some different campaigns as it makes likely a decision easier what you want to support

.

I will list here a few new projects as well as some old boards that simply sell very low numbers so in the past those will not pay back the investment of time

As I told here some Guys in Forums that had custom designs made
private used drivers at 10€ per spent hour
for business small number of sales 100€ per driver design
the fee is capped at 100€ per design

so I will continue this here, but more complicated projects like the long overdue 1S Boost will take more than that

if you want to donate directly without Gofundme
Paypal in $

PayPal.Me

Get your very own PayPal.Me link

Post it. Text it. Tag it. Share it. Shout it. And let your friends pay you back in a tap or two. Grab your PayPal.Me link today.

But still internationally from US Paypal takes then higher rates 2.5+0.4$+1.8-3.3 depending on country

for private funds in $
bengals(ät)panthertigerundleopard.de
for private funds in €
https://paypal.me/pools/c/8et2U5vmxT

Lexel · 2019-04-30T11:10:43.000Z

Open campaigns

Drivers

Emisar D1(S) white flat driver

100€ goal

FT03 CC FET driver for white flat

50€ goal

Acebeam X45 Buck
100€ goal

1S BLF Boost
200€ goal

.

Tail boards

20/30A electronic tail clicky boards
75€ goal

lights tail boards with low battery warning and LVP

[SALE] lighted tail boards, rainbow or custom color combination Flashlight Modding and DIY Parts

I am finally starting sales on my lighted tail boards how it began can be read here each generation adds more features Generation 1 simple 2x3 LED with balance resistors optional trimmer each LED has its own balance resistor so different LEDs can be combined 2 channels can be dimmed with optional trimmer it is advised to use LEDs with similar forward voltage (CW, WW, blue, ice blue, pink or red, orange, yellow) if different colors used the LEDs with higher forward voltage dim out with l…

100€ goal

.

Misc:

Programming key

BLF driver programming key v3.2 launched on Oshpark Flashlight Modding and DIY Parts

You can see the archived poll results on the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20221220093741/https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/72815

60€ goal

.

Test Equipmend/production hardware

campaigns that reached its goal
Reflow oven

[MOD] Puhui T-962A Infrared reflow oven Flashlight Modding and DIY Parts

After using a hotplate in addition to a hot air gun for quite some time I wanted to upgrade to more professional gear Problem is real professional small reflow ovens cost 2,000€ and up Chinesse start at about 170€ but come with a lot of issues I have chosen the T962 Series Model A that is a bit bigger than the 962 for 280€ shipped in EU I bought this in EU because I doint want to have trouble with customs because its basically nowhere near having the requirements for a CE label Even if its …

Lexel · 2019-04-30T12:14:41.000Z

now internally at the 10. batch I did again income vs. spent money and time calculation for driver related sales

Summary:

giving myself 10$ per hour for my labor I am still not even breaking even like when I did calculation after the 4. batch

.

The Gofundme campaigns are there basically to give at least some credit to the massive time spent getting all those drivers made
but looking on it from a commercial spot I likely need to sell about 50 driver at 1-2$ for compensating the design process to get even when I am taking 10$ per hour,
but actual sales do not even break even when I am just subtracting manufacturing/shipping costs with the payments, so those sales cost me effective money if I dont reduce from 10$ per hours to like 8$
different complex drivers take more or less time, for example the MF01 Buck driver was with its revisions about 12-15 hours time spent and so far about a dozen sold

on other more recent bought driver sized like the 30mm Convoy L6 you may say hey you sold like 60-80 drivers of those making a good profit,
but I went through like 6-7 revisions on this DD driver alone and 4 revisions on the buck driver

you can always order drivers here in forums

.

I would estimate on all the driver related stuff I spent already like 200 hours on board design and prototyping
So if you think I am trying to snatch some more money you are mistaken, if I had spent that time working on regular freelancer work I would have made 2-3 times more money than driver sales is making

We all know that there are some members that can donate to projects a lot so I can keep the driver prices on a budget level instead rising prices a lot

.

I am not living in China living here is in Germany is expensive and regular work gets well payed
lets just assume 10$ per hour I say I dont earning money on this as I alsways stated my drivers will be calculated on a non profit base

I give now the first time real numbers from driver sales and parts bought public, I did this roughly in 4. batch and break not even still a loss was involved making drivers at 8€ per hour

.

excact numbers of my Excel sheet from all driver/aux boards realted mods and sales
12056.95€ + $3119.87
driver sales with Mods are also about 17500$

production related costs
- 2000$ Mods included in this price are likely 100 hours and 1000$ buying the lights and other parts

so I have so far about 916 drivers and Aux boards sold
- 1000$ time communication 517 orders with likely 10-15 minutes average time spent for communication
that is an average of less than 2 boards per order
- 3050$ about 20 minutes per board assembly, soldering, flashing and testing

- 2000$ shipping (estimated value)
- 1000$ actually make shipping labels bring all those stuff to the post office with waiting time as its usually crowded

- parts bought for 5400$
about 4000€ Mouser and 1750€ Arrow minus about 1250€ current parts stock

- 500$ Paypal fees

- 950$ oshpark PCBs

- about 2000$ Seeed and Elecrow Boards and stencils

I also pay 19% VAT and import tax on those orders

.

So now lets calculate the Paycheck vs all the spent money

17500-2000-1000-3050-2000-1000-5400-500-950-2000=–900$
I get an astonishing profit of –400$, wait minus in front thats actually a loss, damn I am making something wrong need to find some chineese paycheck worker here in germany to do the labor

.

and still I have not calculated any time for designung all those boards which are well a few hundred hours

new lab equipment
600$ PSU,
400$ Oscilloscope,
600$ Reflow oven,
1400$ IR camera,
100$ multimeters,
650$ lab Multimeter
300$ Diptrace extended license
475$ also soon a function generator

Rusty · 2019-04-30T07:30:59.000Z

Hi Lexel,

Apologies for my naivety, but are the gofundme campaigns purely a money raising exercise, or can one order drivers through there?

Very interested in both the FT03 and D1S drivers, and more than happy to chip in and support, if the cost doesn’t sustain their development.

Lexel · 2019-04-30T12:36:38.000Z

Rusty:

Hi Lexel,

Apologies for my naivety, but are the gofundme campaigns purely a money raising exercise, or can one order drivers through there?

Very interested in both the FT03 and D1S drivers, and more than happy to chip in and support, if the cost doesn’t sustain their development.

The Gofundme campaigns are there basically to give at least some credit to the massive time spent getting all those drivers made
but looking on it from a commercial spot I likely need to sell about 50 driver at 1-2$ for compensating the design process to get even when I am taking 10$ per hour,
but actual sales do not even break even when I am just subtracting manufacturing/shipping costs with the payments, so those sales cost me effective money if I dont reduce from 10$ per hours to like 8$
different complex drivers take more or less time, for example the MF01 Buck driver was with its revisions about 12-15 hours time spent and so far about a dozen sold

on other more recent bought driver sized like the 30mm Convoy L6 you may say hey you sold like 60-80 drivers of those making a good profit,
but I went through like 6-7 revisions on this DD driver alone and 4 revisions on the buck driver

you can always order drivers here in forums

.

I would estimate on all the driver related stuff (not counting the actual production related time) I spent already like 200 hours on board design and prototyping
So if you think I am trying to snatch some more money you are mistaken, if I had spent that time working on regular freelancer work I would have made 2-3 times more money than driver sales is making

We all know that there are some members that are rich and can donate to projects a lot so I can keep the driver prices on a low level for normal folks

.

I am not living in China living here is in Germany is expensive and regular work gets well payed
lets just assume 10$ per hour I say I dont earning money on this as I alsways stated my drivers will be calculated on a non profit base

I give now the first time real numbers from driver sales and parts bought public, I did this roughly in 4. batch and break not even still a loss was involved making drivers at 8€ per hour

.

excact numbers of my Excel sheet from all driver/aux boards realted mods and sales
12056.95€ + $3119.87
driver sales with Mods are also about 17500$

production related costs
- 2000$ Mods included in this price are likely 100 hours and 1000$ buying the lights and other parts(Kaidomain, BG, GB, Aliexpress)

so I have so far about 916 drivers and Aux boards sold
- 1000$ time communication 517 orders with likely 10-15 minutes average time spent for communication
that is an average of less than 2 boards per order, I spotted this as the major factor that produces a loss the effort is too high looking at the average order payment
- 3050$ about 20 minutes per board assembly, soldering, flashing and testing

- 2000$ shipping (estimated value)
- 1000$ actually make shipping labels bring all those stuff to the post office with waiting time as its usually crowded

- parts bought for 5400$
about 4000€ Mouser and 1750€ Arrow minus about 1250€ current parts stock

- 1000$ Paypal fees

- 950$ oshpark PCBs

- about 2000$ Seeed and Elecrow Boards and stencils

I also pay 19% VAT and import tax on those orders

.

So now lets calculate the Paycheck vs all the spent money

17500-2000-1000-3050-2000-1000-5400-1000-950-2000=–900$
I get an astonishing profit of –900$, wait minus in front thats actually a loss, damn I am making something wrong need to find some chineese paycheck worker here in germany to do the labor

.

and still I have not calculated any time for designing all those boards which are >200 hours

new lab equipment
600$ PSU,
400$ Oscilloscope,
600$ Reflow oven,
1400$ IR camera,
100$ multimeters,
650$ lab Multimeter
300$ Diptrace extended license
475$ also soon a function generator

4492011 · 2019-04-30T12:47:26.000Z

Ok, please send a link to the account

Thanks.

4492011 · 2019-04-30T12:51:06.000Z

4492011:

Ok, please send a link to the account

Thanks.

Never mind sorry, I just need to read more closely , just click on the link for the driver design that you want to donate to. Good Idea for this type of setup.

Lexel · 2019-04-30T13:15:14.000Z

they do not work as a (monthly) account donation its always a campaign, so you can have different campaigns
I find this better than patreon which is also for Europe customers not tolerable with their VAT taxation

Emisar D1(S) white flat driver

FT03 CC FET driver for white flat

Acebeam X45 Buck

1S BLF Boost

20/30A electronic tail clicky boards

lights tail boards with low battery warning and LVP

Programming key

Campaign that is already at 100% funding

Reflow oven

if you want to donate directly without Gofundme
Paypal in $

PayPal.Me

Get your very own PayPal.Me link

Post it. Text it. Tag it. Share it. Shout it. And let your friends pay you back in a tap or two. Grab your PayPal.Me link today.

But still internationally from US Paypal takes then higher rates 2.5+0.4$+1.8-3.3 depending on country

for private funds in $
bengals(ät)panthertigerundleopard.de
for private funds in €
ste(point)ven(ät)web.de

4492011 · 2019-04-30T12:58:59.000Z

4492011:

4492011:

Ok, please send a link to the account

Thanks.

Never mind sorry, I just need to read more closely , just click on the link for the driver design that you want to donate to. Good Idea for this type of setup.

Just clicked on the link , requires credit card, I don’t see an option for PayPal? Is that not an option ?

4492011 · 2019-04-30T13:11:26.000Z

Thank you, sent.

Lexel · 2019-04-30T13:27:33.000Z

Thank you

should I put this to a specific campaign?
amount public or private?

4492011 · 2019-04-30T13:54:41.000Z

Use it at your discretion , amount private. I am not too familiar with all of your offerings, and not exactly sure about shipping costs to US. Currently I am interested in 20 mm 17 mm high power linear driver for osram flat white variations but probably the larger one and Luminus sst 40 , both max amps .

Lexel · 2019-04-30T19:11:56.000Z

4492011:

Use it at your discretion , amount private. I am not too familiar with all of your offerings, and not exactly sure about shipping costs to US. Currently I am interested in 20 mm 17 mm high power linear driver for osram flat white variations but probably the larger one and Luminus sst 40 , both max amps .

I have still to wait for a D1S, for the final thermal tests its something I can not do on my PCB vise
unfortunately I likely have to chop this flashlight partially open so this will also get into the prototyping costs,
because I have to do proper use of my infrared thermometer getting to max. current that the driver can sustain in the light without getting to hot
and I simply want so see how effective the solder filled thermal viases are, or if I may have to add some copper sheet on the MOSFET somehow
I would not trust contriving in a thermal probe from the LED side somehow

The goal is to get to 7 or even 8A without getting higher than 120°C on the MOSFETs hottest spot while the Lights head is 60°C hot
and also this has to take into account having a battery loaded to get proper thermal contact and voltage sag of the inserted cell to be as close to real working conditions

.

The last thing I want is selling 8A SST 40 drivers that fail after constant use because the board gets too hot
from the L4P driver we know the 4A of 1mm² white flat are no problem, but regular fibre glass PCBs have their limitations
Also the first prototypes that I have here are made on my regular 1Oz orders, while final ones will be 2 Oz copper

LouieAtienza · 2019-05-07T18:39:37.000Z

Lexel, great idea, hope to help you out in the next week or two.

But really, you’re undercharging for your work. I think most folks here, even on a “budget” will pay a little extra for the quality work and design you put into your product, rather than give it to some big mega-factory in the middle of a rice farm in China. Then again, those folks got to eat too…

Still waiting for you to get back on track with the 40A CFT-90 driver LOLOL…

JasonWW · 2019-05-31T23:18:37.000Z

I chip in 10 to get the ball rolling. Paypal is quite easy compared to gofundme.

JasonWW · 2019-05-31T23:21:42.000Z

LouieAtienza:

some big mega-factory in the middle of a rice farm in China.

Most of these flashlight companies are in Shenzhen which is a high tech megatropolis of about 12.5 million people. No rice farms around there. Lol