Liitokala Samsung 30Q @ 2.04 at the Liitokala Store in Ali.

BurningPlayd0h · 2018-12-02T03:59:21.000Z

Jerommel:

No wonder Li Ion cells have a bad name, when people

-have no idea what they’re doing (probably mainly vapers)
-get advise from people who don’t know what they’re talking about.
-produce and sell crappy batteries with fake specs (manufacturers and sellers fault)
-only care about the price of cells (cheap = good)
-don’t use the internet to educate themselves (not only regarding batteries…)
-make and post dishonest / misleading videos for views (not only regarding batteries…)

From my SUPER anecdotal experience the online vaping community is one of the most knowledgeable about batteries. That probably doesn’t represent the vast majority of people with vapes/e-cigs but its something at least.

Maybe in coming years the MASSIVE increase in demand for loose li-ion batteries will change how the OEMs sell and market their cells?

BurningPlayd0h · 2018-12-02T04:11:37.000Z

elbakan1:

I also have the feeling that 30Qs I got from Banggood, are fakier than the Liitokalas.
They look terrible in comparison. And they costed me 5 bucks a pop. Buying 4.

I got back, obviously, and I’m discharging the fake Liitokalas.
When they charge, I’ll make some tests with Watts in the mods.

I won’t go over 100 watts. They were never intended for that power.
I wanted them, as I said, for 60W. Period. They do 80W, fine. They won’t remain there.
I have VTC4s and 5s. Real ones, for going higher. To 220W with a .01 ohm coil.
I dare you to take puff at that power without temperature control. And 100% VG.
Not even the VTC6s I have, are used to go over 100Ws.

We’ll see. Later.

Cheers.

But they aren’t even rated to provide the current for 60W man (even running dual cell!). I know you don’t want them to go to waste but the limted testing we have of these cells shows they are reliable for about 4A MAX. We just want you to be safe, I would relegate these to use in flashlights regulated to <5A only personally but you do you.

Just a little anecdote:
Just two years ago for as long as paintball had existed no insurance companies for fields or tournaments I’m aware of required chin straps. Nobody wore them because “they looked dumb” or “were annoying”. Then, two players collided in a live-streamed pro event, and one got shot less than an inch from his eye when the barrel of the other player pushed his mask without a chin strap off his face. He was seen on camera bleeding from the face and people were sure he had lost an eye. Within weeks the insurance providers for fields were mandating that EVERYONE on the field must be wearing the ASTM-approved chinstrap for their mask. One near-miss caused a huge shift in safety procedure for many players and potentially cost some fields a grand or more in replacing their rental fleet of goggles (I’m sure some had removed the chin straps for some reason). Imagine what any accidents with li-ion batteries do to public perception of them, or how easy it would be for their to be legislation to “protect us” from “the dangers of VOLATILE li-ion batteries” by strictly controlling their sale/use?

Speadge · 2018-12-02T05:45:54.000Z

BurningPlayd0h:

These Ali stores are NOT the actual Liitokala company as far as I can tell. Liitokala makes solid chargers and IDK why they would run an obvious scam like this when they could probably sell batteries well under their own brand name by itself. There are like 6 different “Liitokala” sellers, many of them with various misspellings or replacing the o with a zero.

I don’t share your optimism here. The same chargers goes also under Colair and Varicore name. The same as all those fake liitokala batteries. Reputation and brand are our western concept while there’s everything most likely mixed. Even Sofirn we all like had at some point “4000mAh” own branded 18650 batteries in their store.

I don’t belive there’s some “original” liitokala and some “fake” liitokala out there. It’s just liitokala brand with some OEM products we like and some products we don’t like anymore after discovery of their shady practise.

Barkuti · 2018-12-02T06:20:13.000Z

Speadge:

…

I don’t belive there’s some “original” liitokala and some “fake” liitokala out there. It’s just liitokala brand with some OEM products we like and some products we don’t like anymore after discovery of their shady practise.

This is not something new. What happens? That LiitoKala is not trademarked, very much like UltraFire. This is what is going on, here and in many other aspects, in the chinese world.

In case some of you is not aware, let me say AliExpress sellers can change their store name anytime. I am not joking and can provide you with proof so…

Cheers ^:)

BurningPlayd0h · 2018-12-02T08:08:29.000Z

Speadge:

BurningPlayd0h:

These Ali stores are NOT the actual Liitokala company as far as I can tell. Liitokala makes solid chargers and IDK why they would run an obvious scam like this when they could probably sell batteries well under their own brand name by itself. There are like 6 different “Liitokala” sellers, many of them with various misspellings or replacing the o with a zero.

I don’t share your optimism here. The same chargers goes also under Colair and Varicore name. The same as all those fake liitokala batteries. Reputation and brand are our western concept while there’s everything most likely mixed. Even Sofirn we all like had at some point “4000mAh” own branded 18650 batteries in their store.

I don’t belive there’s some “original” liitokala and some “fake” liitokala out there. It’s just liitokala brand with some OEM products we like and some products we don’t like anymore after discovery of their shady practise.

Hmmm, all I know is that the chargers have been tested by TKJ and got great ratings, and are sold by some other big li-ion sites. The actual status of the company is something I just don’t know.

I don’t fret over Thorfire, Convoy, Jaxman, Sofirn, etc. all using some of the same hosts for their lights. They probably all just come from the same manufacturer.

CalvinIS · 2018-12-02T07:41:37.000Z

BurningPlayd0h:

Speadge:

BurningPlayd0h:

These Ali stores are NOT the actual Liitokala company as far as I can tell. Liitokala makes solid chargers and IDK why they would run an obvious scam like this when they could probably sell batteries well under their own brand name by itself. There are like 6 different “Liitokala” sellers, many of them with various misspellings or replacing the o with a zero.

I don’t share your optimism here. The same chargers goes also under Colair and Varicore name. The same as all those fake liitokala batteries. Reputation and brand are our western concept while there’s everything most likely mixed. Even Sofirn we all like had at some point “4000mAh” own branded 18650 batteries in their store. I don’t belive there’s some “original” liitokala and some “fake” liitokala out there. It’s just liitokala brand with some OEM products we like and some products we don’t like anymore after discovery of their shady practise.

Hmmm, all I know is that the chargers have been tested by TKJ and got great ratings, and are sold by reputable dealers like Illumn. The actual status of the company is something I just don’t know. I don’t fret over Thorfire, Convoy, Jaxman, Sofirn, etc. all using some of the same hosts for their lights. They probably all just come from the same manufacturer.

We don't actually sell any Liitokala chargers.

BurningPlayd0h · 2018-12-02T08:08:05.000Z

CalvinIS:

BurningPlayd0h:

Speadge:

BurningPlayd0h:

These Ali stores are NOT the actual Liitokala company as far as I can tell. Liitokala makes solid chargers and IDK why they would run an obvious scam like this when they could probably sell batteries well under their own brand name by itself. There are like 6 different “Liitokala” sellers, many of them with various misspellings or replacing the o with a zero.

I don’t share your optimism here. The same chargers goes also under Colair and Varicore name. The same as all those fake liitokala batteries. Reputation and brand are our western concept while there’s everything most likely mixed. Even Sofirn we all like had at some point “4000mAh” own branded 18650 batteries in their store. I don’t belive there’s some “original” liitokala and some “fake” liitokala out there. It’s just liitokala brand with some OEM products we like and some products we don’t like anymore after discovery of their shady practise.

Hmmm, all I know is that the chargers have been tested by TKJ and got great ratings, and are sold by reputable dealers like Illumn. The actual status of the company is something I just don’t know. I don’t fret over Thorfire, Convoy, Jaxman, Sofirn, etc. all using some of the same hosts for their lights. They probably all just come from the same manufacturer.

We don’t actually sell any Liitokala chargers.

Well damn I must have been thinking of another brand you guys have on there. It says a lot for your site that this actually change my perception of Liitokala haha.

Speadge · 2018-12-02T09:08:48.000Z

Liitokala batteries could be also sold by reputable providers, we just don’t like to be mislead by fake specs and brand. I mean it’s not like those liitokala batteries are completely useless (or comparable to some ultrafires), they just aren’t high drain, etc… or stuff by known brands.
Liitokala chargers are just fine and so could be batteries for most flashlights, people just don’t want to be fooled + fake specs can be potentially dangerous.

PiercingTheDarkness · 2018-12-02T10:50:24.000Z

I always buy from this AliExpress store and never had a fake yet. https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-4PCS-LOT-3-6V-INR18650-30Q-18650-3000mAh-Continuous15A-Li-ion-battery-for-Samsung/1191644_32764366962.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.6.6b629682FwkFjE

This is my test of the 30Q’s purchased there using the West Mountain Radio CBA IV. Same tester as Mooch. EDIT: Same as Mooch but not tuned to be quite as accurate.

My 10A test has voltage drop near the start as contacts needed cleaning on my battery clamp

This same cell measured 2830mAh at 500mA discharge using the LiitoKala Lii-500. Learnt that the Lii-500 isn’t accurate at all, just a rough estimate.

Speadge · 2018-12-02T09:19:24.000Z

Funtastic:

I always buy from this AliExpress store and never had a fake yet.

And yet they list batteries with fake “For Sanyo”, “For Samsung”, “For Panasonic” names - the same as liitokala stores. What’s this “For” stands for if not “for fake indirect brand naming”

PiercingTheDarkness · 2018-12-02T09:33:36.000Z

Speadge:

Funtastic:

I always buy from this AliExpress store and never had a fake yet.

And yet they list batteries with fake “For Sanyo”, “For Samsung”, “For Panasonic” names - the same as liitokala stores. What’s this “For” stands for if not “for fake indirect brand naming”

I’m professionally testing everything from them and everything tests genuine incl IR and physical appearance. Have tested NCR18650B, NCR18650GA, 30Q, Keeppower 26650. I import them to sell online in New Zealand and haven’t noticed a fake with over 700 cells. They do state that they’re the originals and also show their discharge tests and IR when I inquire.

Barkuti · 2018-12-02T10:14:36.000Z

Funtastic:

I always buy from this AliExpress store and never had a fake yet. https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-4PCS-LOT-3-6V-INR18650-30Q-18650-3000mAh-Continuous15A-Li-ion-battery-for-Samsung/1191644_32764366962.html

This is my test of the 30Q's purchased there using the West Mountain Radio CBA IV. Same tester as Mooch.
…

Lucky Electronic's Store is one of the recommended ones here: Massive post on where to get lithium-ion batteries everywhere in the world!

Mooch's West Mountain Radio CBA IV has a lot of optimizations to increase its discharge/power handling and absolutely minimize or compensate its voltage drop current rate dependence. Yours has this problem. By seeing the distance between your 5A and 10A ratio curves I infer nearly 40mΩ of cell plus lead paths' resistance, while the actual cold DC IR of 30Q cells is less than 25mΩ. Inaccurate, thus.

Cheers

PiercingTheDarkness · 2018-12-02T10:47:57.000Z

Barkuti:

Funtastic:

I always buy from this AliExpress store and never had a fake yet. https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-4PCS-LOT-3-6V-INR18650-30Q-18650-3000mAh-Continuous15A-Li-ion-battery-for-Samsung/1191644_32764366962.html

This is my test of the 30Q’s purchased there using the West Mountain Radio CBA IV. Same tester as Mooch.
…

Lucky Electronic’s Store is one of the recommended ones here: Massive post on where to get lithium-ion batteries everywhere in the world!

Mooch’s West Mountain Radio CBA IV has a lot of optimizations to increase its discharge/power handling and absolutely minimize or compensate its voltage drop current rate dependence. Yours has this problem. By seeing the distance between your 5A and 10A ratio curves I infer nearly 40mΩ of cell plus lead paths’ resistance, while the actual cold DC IR of 30Q cells is less than 25mΩ. Inaccurate, thus.

Cheers

Yeah, Mooch did inform me of that before purchasing it but with that in mind it’s still easy to spot a genuine from a fake. My DMM is reading 0.04v higher than the CBA at 10A so it’s not too bad.

I’ve yet to ask Mooch how to modify the CBA for better accuracy. He just said up to 5A is pretty accurate but higher results in more voltage drop.

I’m not really worried as it’s only to verify to customers that I sell genuine cells. I don’t need 100% accuracy

Thank you for your input though

maukka · 2018-12-02T11:46:38.000Z

Doesn’t the West Mountain Radio CBA IV have a 3.5mm socket for voltage sense wires for true 4-wire measurements?

PiercingTheDarkness · 2018-12-02T13:03:57.000Z

maukka:

Doesn’t the West Mountain Radio CBA IV have a 3.5mm socket for voltage sense wires for true 4-wire measurements?

Unfortunately it doesn’t. Only on the HR version

elbakan1 · 2018-12-02T16:33:48.000Z

2 fake cells in parallel 150W in a 150W Sigelei with a Geekvape coil .4 ohms=7.5 v draw. No drama.
2 fake cells in parallel @ 235W in a Geekvape mod with a Geekvape coil @.17 ohms=???v draw.
I couldn’t see the voltage because of the vapor. The meter went down to 180W every time I pressed and held there.
This is all holding the buttom for 10 seconds. The max allowed.

Conclusions:
a) The fake cells are worth every penny of the 2 dollars I spent.
b) They will do great @ 60W with a .4 ohms. The intended use.
c) Don’t pay attention to whatever anybody says. As usual.

Cheers.

BurningPlayd0h · 2018-12-02T16:56:27.000Z

elbakan1:

2 fake cells in parallel 150W in a 150W Sigelei with a Geekvape coil .4 ohms=7.5 v draw. No drama.
2 fake cells in parallel @ 235W in a Geekvape mod with a Geekvape coil @.17 ohms=???v draw.
I couldn’t see the voltage because of the vapor. The meter went down to 180W every time I pressed and held there.
This is all holding the buttom for 10 seconds. The max allowed.

Conclusions:
a) The fake cells are worth every penny of the 2 dollars I spent.
b) They will do great @ 60W with a .4 ohms. The intended use.
c) Don’t pay attention to whatever anybody says. As usual.

Cheers.

Why do you keep talking about “voltage draw”? The only voltage coming from the batteries is whatever charge level they are at.

Coil resistance does not change amperage drawn from the cells at all in a regulated mod. Only whatever wattage youre set to will.

BlueSwordM · 2018-12-02T16:54:34.000Z

You did not answer my question.

How many legs do the positive terminal of your fake 30Qs have? If 4, then you are just supporting fraud, and you are happy to support them because of an economic benefit.

Especially since you seem to be ignorant regarding electronics knowledge, and how Ohm’s law works. You also don’t seem to be receptive to learning about this stuff.

We do not condone your type of behavior, and supporting fraudulent products from a business that could be endangering the lives of others. You’re just showing post-purchase rationalization now, and are ignoring the concerns people have for you and the people that are buying these products, and are starting being rude by completely ignoring others and not paying attention to whatever anybody says.

moderator007 · 2018-12-02T18:00:59.000Z

elbakan1:

2 fake cells in parallel 150W in a 150W Sigelei with a Geekvape coil .4 ohms=7.5 v draw. No drama.
2 fake cells in parallel @ 235W in a Geekvape mod with a Geekvape coil @.17 ohms=???v draw.
I couldn’t see the voltage because of the vapor. The meter went down to 180W every time I pressed and held there.
This is all holding the buttom for 10 seconds. The max allowed.

Conclusions:
a) The fake cells are worth every penny of the 2 dollars I spent.
b) They will do great @ 60W with a .4 ohms. The intended use.
c) Don’t pay attention to whatever anybody says. As usual.

Cheers.

Good luck :+1: .

Boaz · 2018-12-02T19:18:05.000Z

They were selling fakes that clearly had pink heatshrink on them with printing just like Samsungs that said Samsung Q 30 on them . They then stick a liiito kala label over the word Samsung to hide the word samsung .. because it was probably cheaper than re-wrapping a bazzilion fake cells that all had 4 prong top posts . Then they re-wrote the description to say “for Samsung “ and still use the 30Q to describe them .. same withe the fake lg h2g’s and many orhers ..Blatant / obvious stupid fraudulent lying on their part . Only made worse by ali- express not acknowledging this as a problem and doing nothing for the people being screwed over by these vendors .

I assume these are all just junk chinese cells that have substantially inferior quality components and will produce somewhat acceptable results for a brief period of time and then like chinese nimh cells will fail prematurely.

I see batteries like a tool and imho anything less than quality is just a bad idea . Chinese cells just suck