Luminus SST-20-W 4000 K CRI95 color and output test

DB_Custom · 2018-11-10T17:12:27.000Z

Y’all are really doing great with all this tint mixing thang!

I’ve been looking at doing some mixing in a light I’m building that will have 17 emitters. 4 quads under Ledil Angie optics and a central single die under a 22mm reflector. I’m planning to use a sliced and sealed SST-40 in the center, originally planned 16 Samsung LH351D at 80 CRI 5000K for the quads. But I’ve been considering doing some mixing on these 4 quad boards. I have a lot of emitters to choose from, can even do a quad with 4 Black Flats and one with 4 Nichia 219C at 5000K, then maybe XP-L HD or HI or a mix of both. But I have so many options I don’t know what to do… could y’all help me figure this out?

Here’s a list of emitters I have available, the majority new and in tape, a few on boards as indicated…

The layout is like this, with the center (marked as HI) probably not being an HI but I’m still open to options.

So, would there be a viable combination in this slew of bare emitters or is it time to order something new?

This is a 4” diameter head mated to a Sofirn Q8. The center 25mm Maxtoch MCPCB is run from the original driver flashed with Anduril, there are 4 slave boards each with an FET+1 set-up that will run the 4 quad Noctigons (D4S, with Angie optics) So each quad can have different emitters, Vf differences won’t matter as the board will have it’s own FET+1 supply, with all 5 drivers being controlled by the same Anduril UI. I started out wanting max lumens, but after all the work this has been I’m thinking I should just make it the best beam profile/tint I can put together.

Any and all help here is greatly appreciated. Y’all are obviously the masterminds of mixing.

Light is essentially ready to assemble, D4S boards and optics will be here Tuesday.

ToyKeeper · 2018-11-12T00:51:23.000Z

DB Custom:

Any and all help here is greatly appreciated.

I hope it will work out well. I just haven’t tried mixing different types of emitters in parallel like that, so I’m not sure what to expect. It might end up driving the highest-Vf emitters extra hard while not doing much to the lowest-Vf emitters, or it might be fine.

As for getting the colors blended well, that’s going to be a pretty complicated equation. It might be easier to just try it and then make adjustments as necessary.

DB_Custom · 2018-11-12T15:43:49.000Z

Ah, well, the thing is… each board will have it’s own MOSFET and 7135 chip, so the different emitters won’t be sharing the same “parallel” board. Samsung emitters on a board will have their own FET and 7135 chip, if I put Nichia 219C’s on another board it will have it’s own FET and 7135 chip… there are 4 slaves and the original driver is the Master, each FET+1 will drive it’s own MCPCB full of emitters. Only the MCU will be shared. Basically 5 lights with 5 drivers housed in one unit. With this configuration, I could feasibly put a sense resistor on one slave board and limit output to the emitters it supplies. I have 22ga leads coming from the original Q8 driver for example, to supply the Luminus SST-40. I don’t want it to try to pull 9A. This has no effect on the 4 slave boards which each have an 18ga Teflon coated negative lead to it’s respective board.

I will be sharing the red positive lead between two quad MCPCB’s, 2 leads for 4 quad MCPCB’s, this is a huge 14ga lead and will carry whatever current the power pack has to offer. I could, in theory, add a 6th slave with a single 7135 for each channel and run green XP-E2 emitters at a maximum output of 350mA, powered from the same power supply but unaffected by what it’s neighboring MCPCB’s are doing. I thought about doing this to run a string of green emitters around the perimeter to add a glow behind the mains… decided not to. In much the same way that I could run a rainbow of small SMD emitters around the perimeter and engage them through the switch light leads, again, not going to as it’s already complex enough. lol I have all these emitters, 8 colors of SMD’s, so tempting to use them…

Edit: Hank is offering 4 emitter choices for his D4S, I can use essentially those 4 emitters on 4 boards under 4 optics and add the center SST-40 under a 22mm reflector, which, in theory, would be good for some 17,700 lumens (expecting ~ 2000 from the SST-40)

From Hank’s site, regarding the D4S…

OTF lumen output and candela at start-up

XP-G2 S4 : 3300lm / 40,000cd

Nichia 219C : 3000lm / 20,000cd

XP-L HI : 4300lm / 45,000cd

XP-L HD : 5100lm / 27,000cd (I can either use XP-L HD or Samsung LH351D)

It just intrigues me what the beam would be like with all 4 D4S emitter choices coming from one light. Think I gotta do this… lol

contactcr · 2018-11-13T02:18:57.000Z

I shaved the dome on my SST-20 4000K E2L triple. It does appear to have made it slightly less green at the expense of not very much loss of CCT. I expected more anyways. I think it’s throwy enough with the dome on though so I wish a different tint existed but you get what you get

Here is a comparison, both have smooth narrow optic using lightly used 30Q/VTC6

SST20 4000K (SD)
14.2kcd
1750lm

and for reference:

XP-L HI V2 5D
14.7kcd
2230lm

EasyB · 2018-11-13T14:20:07.000Z

DB Custom:

It just intrigues me what the beam would be like with all 4 D4S emitter choices coming from one light. Think I gotta do this… lol

I think the beam will look good. Those four emitters are not that different in size so I don’t think the beam will look at all strange. The largest (XPL HD) is only ~1.5x larger in diameter than the others. In my 7xC8 light I used different emitters (sliced SST40 and sliced XHP70.2) and the beam looks good.

Barkuti · 2018-11-15T02:47:48.000Z

De extremized my quads to 2x 4000K and 2x 4500K after this TBone's contribution.

On the other hand since available emitters tend to be above the black body locus, any of you believe mixing close tints could actually “enhance” the resulting tint mixture's BBL position? Let's say, mixing a 3000K high CRI emitter (Samsung LH351B 3000K CRI90+) with another 4000K high CRI emitter (Luminus SST-20 4000K CRI95+).

With regards to CRI it shouldn't be very detrimental, what do you think?

Cheers :-)

Thu, 11/15/2018 - 03:10

twisted_raven · 2018-11-15T02:12:38.000Z

Just put a minus green filter over it to better your tint and cri.

Pavlo · 2018-11-29T04:44:58.000Z

CCT aside, what are the Pro’s and Con’s of this SST20 LED vs the older 219b 9080?

My understanding so far… did I miss anything?

219b:
+Best tint and closest to BBL
-Cannot be driven very hard in a direct drive light.
-Very slightly less bright/efficient than SST20

SST20:
+smaller die = better throw/intensity
+very slightly more bright/efficient over 219b 9080
+can handle higher current in direct drive lights
-Tint is above BBL

Which one do you prefer and why?

SKV89 · 2018-11-29T05:09:02.000Z

twisted raven:

Just put a minus green filter over it to better your tint and cri.

The problem is you lose 17% to 20% output with the Lee Filter, which means the SST-20 will output a bit less than the 219B 9080. So in that case, might as well just get the 219B 9080.

Pavlo · 2018-12-04T22:14:54.000Z

Can anybody explain or know how a multi emitter SST-20 light will perform in a constant current Boost driver vs a 219C that has a lower Vf?

ImA4Wheelr · 2018-12-04T22:22:31.000Z

SKV89:

twisted raven:

Just put a minus green filter over it to better your tint and cri.

The problem is you lose 17% to 20% output with the Lee Filter, which means the SST-20 will output a bit less than the 219B 9080. So in that case, might as well just get the 219B 9080.

Is that loss across the emitter's spectrum or just in the targeted color range?

wstrachan · 2018-12-04T22:30:26.000Z

High CRI and minuscule tint shift is great but it seems to take high current numbers to reach just a hare under 1100 lumens. 6.7A at near 4 volts (26W+). I don’t really see the purpose over other emitters (Nichia, XML’s, XPG).

Jerommel · 2018-12-04T22:30:26.000Z

contactcr:

I shaved the dome on my SST-20 4000K E2L triple. It does appear to have made it slightly less green at the expense of not very much loss of CCT. I expected more anyways. I think it’s throwy enough with the dome on though so I wish a different tint existed but you get what you get

Here is a comparison, both have smooth narrow optic using lightly used 30Q/VTC6

SST20 4000K (SD)
14.2kcd
1750lm

and for reference:

XP-L HI V2 5D
14.7kcd
2230lm

This is good to know.
So it’s like the 351D.
Shaving makes it shift a little towards red.

djozz · 2018-12-04T23:21:22.000Z

But the LH351D has no bond wires so you can shave it right onto the phosfor resulting in a larger tint shift and higher throw increase.

Barkuti · 2018-12-05T02:00:03.000Z

I had an LH351D 4000K CRI90+ with solder remnants on its pads after an aborted reflow. Decided to give it a try as pretty sure the emitter was in good condition, and thus I grabbed it by the dome with my flat nose pliers and applied heat gently with my iron's flat tip at ≈210°C and… voilà! Instantly dedomed too:

Cheers ^:)

contactcr · 2018-12-05T03:15:02.000Z

Where did you apply the heat?

Pavlo · 2018-12-05T03:38:31.000Z

wstrachan:

High CRI and minuscule tint shift is great but it seems to take high current numbers to reach just a hare under 1100 lumens. 6.7A at near 4 volts (26W+). I don’t really see the purpose over other emitters (Nichia, XML’s, XPG).

Thanks for your reply.

I am interested in the use of this LED in two specific lights, the Noctigon Meteor M43 and the D4S.

The M43 uses a Boost driver, meanwhile the D4S uses a combination of Linear + Fet.

If I understand correctly, the Boost driver will benefit from a lower Vf LED and thus be much more efficient with a Nichia over the SST20?
Meanwhile, in a Linear + Fet, I have been reading that a low Vf LED like the Nichia pulls alot of current and expels alot of its energy in heat. Does that mean the SST20 will be more efficient in a light like the D4S using a linear Driver and Fet?

Apologies for all the questions, still a little unclear.

BlueSwordM · 2018-12-05T03:49:39.000Z

@Pavlo, the difference in efficiency between the 219C and SST-20 in a regulated light is small. Knowing the SST-20 has better tint, more throw and slightly better color quality, I would get the SST-20 in this case.

In a FET light, the Nichia 219C version will actually be brighter because of slightly higher efficiency and more current. However, it will get hotter.

I would get the SST-20 again here.

Barkuti · 2018-12-05T04:01:05.000Z

contactcr:

Where did you apply the heat?

Where the solder remnants were, my intention was to remove the solder from the emitter pads (it had a lot).

Pavlo · 2018-12-05T05:33:04.000Z

BlueSwordM:

@Pavlo, the difference in efficiency between the 219C and SST-20 in a regulated light is small. Knowing the SST-20 has better tint, more throw and slightly better color quality, I would get the SST-20 in this case.

In a FET light, the Nichia 219C version will actually be brighter because of slightly higher efficiency and more current. However, it will get hotter.

I would get the SST-20 again here.

Thanks BlueSwordM.

Math aside, your explanation sums it up nicely.