Magnesium flashlights?

MtnDon · 2019-04-18T18:27:32.000Z

My son, a machinist, tells me that magnesium can be machined but has many hazards as it can be ignited so easily. So many shops will not even touch the stuff. Magnesium has the unique ability to react with things around it such as CO2 (Carbon Dioxide) or H2O (water) to extract Oxygen for burning. It cannot burn in an atmosphere of pure nitrogen though. So they have a special enclosed 5 axis machine for machining magnesiumand a few other dangerous metals.

Firelight2 · 2019-04-18T18:32:40.000Z

Sounds like dangerous stuff.

I’m not sure I’d want to make a flashlight with it. Especially a heavily driven li-ion powered light.

kat · 2019-04-18T18:36:37.000Z

I would like a flashlight made from tungsten carbide

MtnDon · 2019-04-18T18:39:46.000Z

In the form of a finished light it is not so dangerous. It is the machines spiral strips that ignite very easily and powder that explodes. The deck of my old lawn mower was magnesium and it was never considered a hazrd even with a hot gas enine bolted to it . FYI, magnesium is used as the igniter in thermite.

Agro · 2019-04-18T18:47:10.000Z

hIKARInoob:

I consider weight saving not so interesting with small flashlights as a large contributor to total weight is the battery itself.

Of course, a company can always promote how the magnesium light is x% lighter than the aluminium variant, or generally how much less dense magnesium is…

I disagree here. In all but few cases flashlight weighs more than battery. Even the lightest lights could be reduced by 10% (cell included) if they had mg shells, most would be close to 15-20%. Overall not a killer kind of feature but definitely nice to have.

Overall - I’m reading through the topic now.
The toughest Mg alloys (f.e. Elektron 675) are way tougher than 6061 and close to 7075, have adequate thermal properties and are much lighter. There are some advanced surface finishes available (like Plasma Electrolytic Oxidation) though I’m unsure how do they compare to anodized alu. Cost….is surely a factor but I believe a high end light could be very good when done with Mg.

Scallywag · 2019-04-18T18:54:37.000Z

I'm thinking Mg lights will have to start in the realm of expensive lights like Muyshondt. If they were popular, we might see them sometimes as we do Ti lights, but I don't really expect it. I don't even really see any fuss being made over the choice of aluminum alloys for lights. I didn't get my D25C Ti because I need titanium, but because titanium is cool. But maybe that's the point, here, too. A magnesium light would be pretty cool.

P.S. Doubles as a road flare in case of emergency. Just put your battery into thermal runaway and the light goes too!

Agro · 2019-04-18T19:06:33.000Z

Scallywag:

P.S. Doubles as a road flare in case of emergency. Just put your battery into thermal runaway and the light goes too!

Nah. It melts before it burns and that’s 650 Celsius. You won’t set it alight without external heat source.
So….tactical - maybe no, maybe a direct hit with a bullet could cause local heatup leading to ignition. But firefighters should be fine and regular users even more so.

jon_slider · 2019-04-18T19:22:59.000Z

en.wikipedia.org

Magnesium alloy

Magnesium alloys are mixtures of magnesium (the lightest structural metal) with other metals (called an alloy), often aluminium, zinc, manganese, silicon, copper, rare earths and zirconium. Magnesium alloys have a hexagonal lattice structure, which affects the fundamental properties of these alloys. Plastic deformation of the hexagonal lattice is more complicated than in cubic latticed metals like aluminium, copper and steel; therefore, magnesium alloys are typically used as cast alloys, but res...

cliff notes:
a 28 gram flashlight made of solid aluminium, would weight 18 grams if made of magnesium alloy, a savings about 1/3 the weight of the body.

magnesium alloy oxidizes, because it contains aluminium

magnesium burns:
it is used in firestarters

I can see it now… LiIon vents with fire, the magnesium flashlight body joins the thermal runaway

and we get a campfire:
“Water pisses it off!”

hIKARInoob · 2019-04-18T19:21:48.000Z

jon_slider:

a 28 gram flashlight made of aluminium, would weight 18 grams if made of magnesium…

This is if you keep dimensions identical; hence you’re looking at the density ratio of the two materials.

Caleb · 2019-04-18T19:56:37.000Z

kat:

I would like a flashlight made from tungsten carbide

Or just the bezel and maybe the tail cap… the parts that will bump unto things.

BlueSwordM · 2019-04-18T20:07:33.000Z

Guys, they are just going to be using a magnesium-aluminium alloy, like LG does with their LG Gram

slowtechstef · 2019-04-18T20:12:32.000Z

jon_slider:

Magnesium alloy - Wikipedia

magnesium burns:
it is used in firestarters

I can see it now… LiIon vents with fire, the magnesium flashlight body joins the thermal runaway

and we get a campfire:
“Water pisses it off!”

From the wikipedia article you linked:

Adding 2% of calcium by weight to magnesium alloy AM60 results in the non-combustible magnesium alloy AMCa602.[15] The higher oxidation reactivity of calcium causes a coat of calcium oxide to form before magnesium ignites. The ignition temperature of the alloy is elevated by 200–300 K. An oxygen-free atmosphere is not necessary for machining operations.

I guess Fenix knows what they are doing, and would not manufacture and sell a light that is inherently unsafe; especially in combination with an 18650.

By the way, Surefire already sells a magnesium headlight as well since 2017. I guess it all comes down to choosing the right alloy and right coating/finishing.

slowtechstef · 2019-04-18T20:28:43.000Z

BlueSwordM:

Guys, they are just going to be using a magnesium-aluminium alloy, like LG does with their LG Gram

Thanks for the pointer to the LG Gram notebook.
Interesting to see LG taking over Apple in the field of material innovation for notebook construction.

I think there might be a trend here of producers starting to use magnesium-alloy constructions for light-weight electronic/consumer devices because of the more premium look and feel (and lower weight) when compared to objects made of aluminum.

Spartan · 2019-04-18T20:57:28.000Z

Magnesium is an epically stupid choice for flashlights. Period. End of story.

hIKARInoob · 2019-04-18T20:59:09.000Z

^ Well I guess you’re not into cool white then…

Spartan · 2019-04-18T20:59:47.000Z

slowtechstef:

jon_slider:

Magnesium alloy - Wikipedia

magnesium burns:
it is used in firestarters

I can see it now… LiIon vents with fire, the magnesium flashlight body joins the thermal runaway

and we get a campfire:
“Water pisses it off!”

From the wikipedia article you linked:

Adding 2% of calcium by weight to magnesium alloy AM60 results in the non-combustible magnesium alloy AMCa602.[15] The higher oxidation reactivity of calcium causes a coat of calcium oxide to form before magnesium ignites. The ignition temperature of the alloy is elevated by 200–300 K. An oxygen-free atmosphere is not necessary for machining operations.

I guess Fenix knows what they are doing, and would not manufacture and sell a light that is inherently unsafe; especially in combination with an 18650.

By the way, Surefire already sells a magnesium headlight as well since 2017. I guess it all comes down to choosing the right alloy and right coating/finishing.

No they don’t. It’s just something different they can crow about.

It’s not the first or the last time manufacturers put sales ahead of safety.

Spartan · 2019-04-18T21:00:53.000Z

hIKARInoob:

^ Well I guess you’re not into cool white then…

I rather be alive then cool white….on my way to crispy brown.

hIKARInoob · 2019-04-18T21:04:09.000Z

Do you have any idea what products are made from magnesium? It’s not going to go up in flames as easily as in the video you have posted.

Spartan · 2019-04-18T21:13:37.000Z

In my business we used molds. I experimented with every aluminum, steel, copper and titanium alloy.

We thought about magnesium properties……but it landed up as a joke because no insurance would cover us and no machining company would touch it.

If a calrod shorted, it would set off an unstoppable fire. The sample we got had a warning sign….EXTREME CAUTION.

But hey, lets make a flaslight out of it so if the battery ingites, we can have an unstoppable fire.

Brilliant.

slowtechstef · 2019-04-18T21:14:45.000Z

pure magnesium =! magnesium alloy