Making some side money just for fun, selling custom lights

acab · 2019-06-21T19:35:54.000Z

I would print something similar to what other businesses have and put it in the package. Just in case. I am not a lawyer so I can not say anything about liabilities regarding your business.

Just one question:
Are you going to offer warranty service after the sale or selling as-is?

DavidEF · 2019-06-21T19:37:48.000Z

Assuming none of the potential dangers are from failures in workmanship, I would do two things:

Inform every potential buyer about the inherent dangers of the technology and how to handle it properly.
Leave it up to the buyer to be diligent in their own safety, knowing I gave them all the warning I could give.

If something did fail because of your own failure to produce a good product, there is no protection for you from liability, nor should there be.

trailhunter · 2019-06-22T01:30:54.000Z

Everyone’s feedback has been eye opening, thanks! Now time to build some inventory

DavidEF · 2019-06-22T01:54:26.000Z

HONDARIDER · 2019-06-22T02:17:35.000Z

Can you give us an idea of what all you are going to start with?

Lightbringer · 2019-06-22T03:09:15.000Z

Ugh, don’t.

I did that back when dinosaurs and drop-ins rules the earth. Bespoke lights. You pick the host, LED, driver, reflector, switch, etc., and I’d do it up.

Want a ’501 with NW XP-E and 1A 3-mode driver, no problem. A ’502 with WW XM-L, OP reflector, 2.1A 1-mode driver and FC switch, you got it. Etc.

Problem is, just the parts would sometimes top 30bux (for good parts, that is), and when craplights started coming out for 20 or less, I get complaints how “expensive” mine was compared to what’s out there. Add, what?, 10bux for my time and aggravation (well below minimum wage… for toddlers), now we’re at 40bux. And newer lights started coming out with overinflated specs, even cheaper than just the parts-cost.

Then B’harni forbid anything ever went wrong with it, even when dropped or otherwise abused. I’m now expected to honor a lifetime warranty, either repair the busted one or give ’em a new one.

No thanks.

Muto · 2019-06-22T03:26:10.000Z

Agree,

Only takes one Jackshaft to jam an oversized Crapfire “protected” 18650 which is really 18800 after the shabby re-wrap and cheesy protection board to jam the driver spring clean into the battery tube and go direct drive thereby melting the spring and trashing the Sheetfire battery and next thing ya know, “Jed’s a Millionaire” courtesy of some fleabag lawyer.

Ain’t worth the risk.
Would never even sell a flashlight with a battery unless I did so in person and trusted the buyer to have some common sense and a volt ohm meter and the knowledge to properly use it.

JMHO,
YMMV

HONDARIDER · 2019-06-22T03:36:15.000Z

Good thing he is just wanting to do it kind of as a hobby (Sounds like). His time is the biggest obstacle in the mark up. It will be difficult to make much on them. But if it just kind of for fun and you can get your name out there and break even in the beginning or make 10%. Then he can build a little clientele, and maybe get a little more out of his work in the future. His name would make for a good laser etch in the body. Something in the 1 to 2000 lumen with green and red filtered lenses for the hunter.
I would personally shy away from it. Maybe build some stuff for friends and family.

BlueSwordM · 2019-06-22T03:55:15.000Z

Well, here’s what you need to start.

- Solder paste for the LEDs: https://www.banggood.com/XG-Z40-10cc-Syringe-Solder-Paste-Flux-Paste-Sn63Pb37-25-45um-p-973158.html

- Solder paste for the springs and electronic pads: 2 Stück 50 g bleifreie Niedrigtemperatur-Schmelzpunkt 138 Grad Lötpaste Sale - Banggood Deutschland sold out-arrival notice-arrival notice

Keep these pastes inside of a ziploc bag in the fridge.

I guess you already have a good soldering iron, along with appropriate tips, correct?

- Any kind of temperature adjustable hotplate

Hot air station: https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Digital-Display-Hot-Air-Gun-Rework-Station-with-3pcs-Nozzles-Hot/264340287658

And that’s about it.

There are also some other things you can get, but just PM me for more info.

Lightbringer · 2019-06-22T04:32:36.000Z

Dunno if anyone mentioned it except in passing, but all you need is one jackass to damage the light, end up sticking it in his maw instead of using a headlamp, and end up having it go supernova and blow off half his jaw.

Even if you’d do the work at-cost or even for free (ie, gifting the lights), you could get sued into oblivion.

At least if you bought it untouched and gifted it, not putting your stank on it at all, you could (possibly) be cleared.

BlueSwordM · 2019-06-22T04:42:02.000Z

Well, he could just go into a small claims court and say that it was his irresponsibility that caused this.

There wouldn’t be much legal fees, and it could be reasonably proven that the light couldn’t have blown up unless the idiot did his idiot.

xevious · 2019-06-22T04:54:21.000Z

Start off by making a few “one-off” custom lights and then post to see if there’s any sales interest. That’s the way to start. If you’ve got a compelling design, excellent machining, and a price people would be willing to pay, after selling one you may end up with follow-ups asking if you’ve got more. Make more. Sell ’em. And if that keeps working, then you’ve got your custom flashlight business.

HONDARIDER · 2019-06-22T05:03:33.000Z

I think we are thinking about this way too much. Sure there are dangers with the cells. Drivers go bad and short. Could get hot. Maybe even get burnt. House could catch on fire. Isn’t that the same with OEM lights? I say go for it. Enjoy life. Do what you want. Tell the buyer purchases are at their own risk. Warranty only on workmanship. “Limited” Any signs of damage void warranty. 1 year or 6 months only. Offer repair work. Parts, labor and shipping to be paid by purchaser. Make a little buisness card with all the info. This is too easy. Maybe he will become the next Lumintop or .(add favorite manufacturer in blank.) Good Luck trailhunter.

Lightbringer · 2019-06-22T06:51:49.000Z

I think phrases like “some little extra cash” and “side business” should be addressed. Lotta work, little pay.

Unless the intent is to just mod lights for the Hell of it, whether/not they’d ever get sold, but then sell ’em (hopefully) at some token profit anyway. But that doesn’t reflect the phrases above.

I still say it’d be like hand-crocheted sweaters. Lotta talent, lotta effort, lotta everything, yet who’d pay 100bux for something handmade they could buy something similar on Amazon for 40-50? Or on AX for 20-30?

Master Carpenters who actually build beautiful cabinets with real wood are dying off, simply ’cause people would rather go to Ikea and buy laminated particle-board garbage instead for a fraction of the price.

Original light + parts for modding + shipping + markup = ??

Say, a 35buk light + 15bux for fancy LED and driver (eg, XHPwhatever and FET+1) + 8bux for flat-rate shipping = 58bux. Add some kind of markup to, say, a flat 70 bux.

Bozo looks up the light online, finds it listed for quite literally half of what you sold it for. How much you wanna bet he’d demand a lifetime warranty, even for a broken front-glass or torn switch-boot, even a few years out? Meanwhile, it’s all beat to Hell and looks like bobofett’s helmet.

Mod lights all ya want, but don’t count on selling ’em for a profit… or even at-cost.

Like that crazy lady on the pill commercial who makes sandwich after sandwich after sandwich, literally dozens of ’em, just because she’s manic or something. Have fun doing it, but unless you’re willing to give ’em away, don’t count on someone wanting to buy ’em.

Yeah, everything’s fun at the “Wow, you can make me a light like that? And with my choice of X/Y/Z, too? Wow!”, but after it’s all done, maybe you fried a driver or LED with an oopsie, but now it’s all done and perfect, and you fork it over for the bux. Then it’s, “Wow… that’s kinda expensive.”, eyeballing it like it’s just… just… just a flashlight. Ohhhh, here we go…

Buyer’s remorse. “Uhh, you said the light was 35bux, not 70.”, like you’re trying to rip him off. They think “modding” a light is just taking a small screwdriver and tweaking some teenytiny dials or something, not replacing the guts from a fully working light to make it work somewhat better. And not for double the price.

Yeah, call me Mr Glass Half-Empty, but if anyone wants to find out the hard way, have at it.

acab · 2019-06-22T07:00:54.000Z

Whether you mod a 10 dollar light or a 80 dollar light, isn’t the work almost the same? At least for basic mods.
The cheap light can be sold modded for… maybe 30-35?
The expensive modded light could go for 135-150?

One thing I would do is look for the highest margin products you are planning on selling. Your salary/time/effort could be improved against that.

pinkpanda3310 · 2019-06-22T08:37:28.000Z

I agree with Lightbringer but if this is as you say ‘for fun’ then there’s a few good suggestions above. Also, if the fun is in the modding then just do it but don’t expect to get much back on your investment ( there’s a reason so many people swap out leds themselves ).

Main points being

1. you won’t know exactly until you actually do a small run so do some research on what people might want.

2. acab is spot on about original cost of the light. Additional costs on an upper range light seem less because it’s less markup percentage wise. You don’t see Vinh (or others) modifying cheaparse 3*AAA lights. He modifies mid-range to expensive lights and only the really popular cheaper ones.

Otherwise have at it and I look forward to seeing what comes…

Henk4U2 · 2019-06-22T11:33:48.000Z

My advice would be: don’t do this. At least not for the reason you mentioned. There’s a difference between “starting a small shop” to make some extra money, and having a fun hobby you a getting better in all the time. And maybe sell some of “yesterday’s mod’s” for a few bucks to family, friends or colleagues to keep the cost of being a flashaholic manageable.
Maybe a few extra-ordinary-gifted members could pull off the first variant (selling to make some extra money). The rest of us is lucky if they are not loosing too much money on it. That’s why it is called a hobby.

acab · 2019-06-22T11:51:30.000Z

One aspect that wasn’t discussed:
marketing / sales

How much money/time/effort do you have to invest to secure your customers? And who is the ideal customer? Do you have a large enough circle of friends and family who are all hunters/mechanics/LEOs and outdoor enthusiasts who all have no clue how to build a light?
Or would the people you know never buy a flashlight that cost more than 2 dollars from Dollar General and you need to find people on the internet who mostly compare your products with prices from Asia?

contactcr · 2019-06-22T14:09:25.000Z

I’ve been selling my modded lights to make room for new lights. Nearly every sale so far has been breaking even or losing money. If even 1 person has an issue I will be so far in the red it won’t be worth keeping track anymore.

I’m fine with this risk cause I’m not expecting to make money but if you are you will quickly dislike this hobby I would bet. Good luck

acab · 2019-06-22T14:19:47.000Z

Several months ago I built my first triple S2+:
Noctigon mcpcb, TA driver, 219C, Carclo lens, the whole nine yards

I bought all items when they were on sale, saved on postage and put extra effort to create this “masterpiece”. When I switched it on, I didn’t like the tint at all. too yellow. Couldn’t tear down the light, so put it up on ebay.

All in, the parts were roughly 25$, excluding any tools, my time or consumables. Put it up on ebay CA, US and UK. Not one offer or purchase bid for 35$. Even at 29$ the views didn’t go up and I eventually gave up and kept the light.

Without a clear path to distribution to enthusiasts, sales will be tricky any may suffer.

For the average Joe an AA flashlight above a few dollars is considered expensive and unreasonable because they don’t spend their free time on BLF.
Consumers who DO need a real light with specialist batteries can go into higher price ranges with the known brands and they also get warranty.