Massive fraud on 18650s in the Littokala Aliexpress stores!

Petr_J · 2018-07-23T14:41:21.000Z

I bought the batteries here. Video and Photos on page 12.

Massive fraud on 18650s in the Littokala Aliexpress stores! Rechargeable Batteries

After ten days, I won a dispute with the liitokala Official Store. I bought fake Samsung 30Q Button Top batteries. I wrote two reports, describing why I think the batteries are fake. Without reaction. Only after the dispute was opened the vendor reacted with the statement that everything was OK. I have photographed photos and videos. I asked for a refund of 50% of the original price. That’s what I think is a good deal. The batteries are functional, they have the correct capacity. They are not g…

patmurris · 2018-07-23T17:04:28.000Z

BlueSwordM:

Guys, if you want some real legit stores that I have ordered from, I would recommend the liitokala Official Store and Sunway store since I have bought cells from them, and confirmed they were legit.

I bought 6x 30Qs from the Sunway store:
https://sunway.aliexpress.com/store/3173029?spm=2114.search0104.3.5.1848cb3eLEeQ51
…

Well… $29 for 4x30Qs is not exactly a good deal.

From EU i’d rather buy from Nkon.nl.

eu.nkon.nl

Samsung INR18650-30Q 3000mAh - 15A - 18650 - Li-ion - Rechargeable batteries...

<a href="/sk/k/30q.pdf" target="_blank">Datasheet</a> <a href="/sk/k/30q-specs.pdf" target="_blank">Specs</a>

WalkIntoTheLight · 2018-07-23T18:19:26.000Z

patmurris:

BlueSwordM:

Guys, if you want some real legit stores that I have ordered from, I would recommend the liitokala Official Store and Sunway store since I have bought cells from them, and confirmed they were legit.

I bought 6x 30Qs from the Sunway store:
https://sunway.aliexpress.com/store/3173029?spm=2114.search0104.3.5.1848cb3eLEeQ51
…

Well… $29 for 4x30Qs is not exactly a good deal.

It is if it’s about the only place that will ship (and free, too). I’ve got the VTC6’s from that store earlier this year, and they’re genuine (cheaper than the 30Q’s for some reason, too). If you factor in shipping (free), it’s a decent deal.

Personally, I’d avoid the 30Q’s from anywhere on Ali, until the mess with the fakes is sorted out. Maybe the fakes aren’t in every store, but if the Official Store is showing the 4-prong fakes, it has me concerned.

BlueSwordM · 2018-07-23T18:37:17.000Z

@patmurris, I ordered from them when there a sale.

That sale is over, and prices are back up.

And of course if you are from the Eu I would order from nkon. However, in Canada, we have almost nothing.

patmurris · 2018-07-23T22:13:37.000Z

WalkIntoTheLight:

patmurris:

BlueSwordM:

Guys, if you want some real legit stores that I have ordered from, I would recommend the liitokala Official Store and Sunway store since I have bought cells from them, and confirmed they were legit.

I bought 6x 30Qs from the Sunway store:
https://sunway.aliexpress.com/store/3173029?spm=2114.search0104.3.5.1848cb3eLEeQ51
…

Well… $29 for 4x30Qs is not exactly a good deal.

It is if it’s about the only place that will ship (and free, too). I’ve got the VTC6’s from that store earlier this year, and they’re genuine (cheaper than the 30Q’s for some reason, too). If you factor in shipping (free), it’s a decent deal.

BlueSwordM:

@patmurris, I ordered from them when there a sale.

That sale is over, and prices are back up.

And of course if you are from the Eu I would order from nkon. However, in Canada, we have almost nothing.

Sorry, i forgot to factor in the shipping problem with some parts of the world… So far we have been rather lucky over here.

Barkuti · 2018-08-01T02:35:15.000Z

How you doin' fellows?

Right now I am undergoing two dispute procedures for both 4x 30Q and 4x 25R packs. 30Q cells purchased from liitokala Faketory Store (725333) and 25R ones from lietokala Official Store (217753).

30Q cells have 4x lobed top, higher internal resistance and capacity about matches, but not as consistent as genuine cells. The 25Rs have a 3x lobed (but different) top, higher capacity, higher internal resistance and also lack genuine cells' consistency.

I've opted for “product not as described” and half refunds, sellers do not seem very cooperative despite this though.

We'll see how it goes, but I think it's pretty much nailed down.

Did you thought… if getting a PayPal refund is easy in this regard, did I found a mine of free li-ion cells? :-D

Cheers :-)

joechina · 2018-08-01T21:29:12.000Z

@Barkuti
You posted you wrote to Samsung about the four hole cap. Did they respond?

Barkuti · 2018-08-01T22:26:29.000Z

joechina:

@Barkuti

You posted you wrote to Samsung about the four hole cap. Did they respond?

Can remember, case Seems like I got a six-pack of counterfeit/fake Samsung ICR18650-30B cells :-/. Unforfunately, Samsung never replied. I'd like to believe something different, but I think AliExpress right now is pandemonium ground for rogue li-ion battery sellers. And fuck with that. :-|

Cheers :-)

ledoman · 2018-08-02T07:09:23.000Z

I’ve got 4 NCR18650B with tabs from LiitoKala Official Flagship Store
I suspect them being counterfight. The wrapper is bit different (tipical wrinkles on both sides) and letters fonts are different too. Before any disputes I’ll do discharge test with curve plot in parallel with unused geniue I’ve got two years ago . This will definitively show what cell is really inside.
For additional comparation I’ve ordered same from VariCore Official Store but it will take time…

Barkuti · 2018-08-02T21:59:50.000Z

Recorded in a single unrehearsed shot to be used as dispute evidence. Sorry for my rough pronunciation. :-)

Have fun!

scrumpypaul · 2018-08-04T17:13:20.000Z

I bought four. They’ve taken like two and a half months to get here. The worst shipping period I’ve ever experienced from a seller. They’re just as everyone else has described, fake but I literally CBA’d to start a dispute for the sake of less than a tenner. I’ve left feedback stating they’re not genuine.

Barkuti · 2018-08-04T19:15:40.000Z

scrumpypaul:

… The worst shipping period I’ve ever experienced from a seller. They’re just as everyone else has described, fake but I literally CBA’d to start a dispute for the sake of less than a tenner. I’ve left feedback stating they’re not genuine.

Please understand they use the absolutely cheapest shipping service available, maybe even to the point of declaring the contents as “something not li-ion cells”. FastTech only quotes me shipping for cells via two carrier services, “PostNL” airmail or “China Post” (slow) ground shipping, and neither is free so this is the reason those sellers are using hacks for super cheap shipping.

With regards to going dispute I've done it for my 30Q 4-pack and even for a 25R 4-pack (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/liitokala-for-samsung-18650-2500mah-lithium-battery-25r-inr1865025r-20a-battery-for-electronic-cigarette-Free-shipping/32800243313.html). Paid for PostNL in that last order, got fakes and I've attained half refund favourable resolution. It really is not that much about the money, but to get the AliExpress Case Management Team more aware of what is going on in their yard. My 30Q review has been a 2/5 because the capacity is there, packaging was good and they may be HG2s (still to determine). The 25R order (from store number 217753) is gonna receive a major spank in the ass, not only less consistent fake cells but the seller, literally Ashley zhang caps typo included, was using a photo of Elsa Pataky. See here.

From now on and until something changes in this respect, I'll stay away from AliExpress for ordering big OEM high discharge cells.

^:)

ledoman · 2018-08-06T08:03:05.000Z

Made discharge test to compare geniue Panasonic NCR18650B to tabbed ones I’ve got from LiitoKala Official Flagship Store

I’ve got almost the same capacity at 2A, but the curve looks quite different. Wondering which cells are really under wrapper. Funny enough voltage curve is higher for the most of the time. Will try to use HKJ data to compare.

PS. The closest match by curve in HKJ comparator was Sanyo NCR18650BF/BL 3350mAh, but not by looking at them. I think I’ll need to unwrapp them.

Barkuti · 2018-08-06T09:14:10.000Z

Got my 30Q and 25R half refunds, but in the 25R case the cell appearances didn't convinced the AliExpress Case Management Team. My photos were very clear and well focused, so fuck with that and them. They bite the bullet because capacity was different, sent them combined photos of my Lii-500 result display shots.

There's some cylindrical li-ion cell crime syndicate out there in china. They're mass rewrapping cells, obviously. Hope they get spanked, preferably soon.

Cheers ^:)

abacab · 2018-08-06T10:53:15.000Z

ledoman:

Made discharge test to compare geniue Panasonic NCR18650B.

I will be very interested in your findings as i got the same 18650`s from that store and they were all 5 x lobed top, all there capacity’s were above 3200mah.

Barkuti · 2018-08-06T12:22:19.000Z

abacab:

…

I will be very interested in your findings as i got the same 18650`s from that store and they were all 5 x lobed top, all there capacity’s were above 3200mah.

Roll the dice!
I wonder what cycle life we can expect from all these unknown cells. Main problem here is: do we need to go through all this uncertainty? :-| If we could get the cells in their original OEM wraps at least we would have a nice chance to get a datasheet and we wouldn't feed those criminals.

My $0.02

wstrachan · 2018-08-06T14:27:19.000Z

I received fake 30-Qs and fake VTC5s/VTC6s from both Liitokala stores on Aliexpress. I filed several disputes. Two transactions were PayPal guaranteed and PayPal refunded my purchase.
I had ordered 8 VTC5s in a separate order and didn’t use Paypal. Regarding that order, I was asked to return the products for refund but unfortunately the shipping cost outweighs to purchase so i let it go.
There is that old saying “If it’s too good to be true”….
I learned from it. Aliexpress buyer protection is a joke and Liitokala “official store” sells fakes.

Barkuti · 2018-08-06T15:22:13.000Z

wstrachan, that old saying has nothing to do with truth unless we believe in it (I don't).

Conversely, where I live I learned “the saying of the three Bs”: “Bueno, Bonito y Barato”, which translates into “good, beautiful and cheap” all at the same time. And you can believe I do generally find amazing true deals like paying €1.25 for five USB micro-B to type-C adapters, keychain ready, in multiple colors plus S&H included. :STAR:

AliExpress buyer protection is what it is. The bad sellers are usually uncooperative and you need to provide clear proofs of the problem and be in the know of the corresponding dispute procedure intricacies, all of which takes time. However, if you let them go with the loot for free I believe you're only giving them further reasons to continue with their shitty behaviour.

I have a question: is it easy to recover your money via PayPal claim? This could be really interesting to get cells for free and bust their scoundrelly tactics.

Cheers :-)

justanotherguy · 2018-08-06T16:13:32.000Z

I got a pp refund… I explained, without much scotch, the situation…
Pp refunded me but said they weren’t penalizing the seller. So yeah,I got some free unknown batteries… But the seller felt no reprecussions

abacab · 2018-08-06T17:03:16.000Z

I think its best to go for a 50% refund if you put in a Aliexpress claim for fake battery’s, it doesn’t leave you open to the old “return it and we will refund” argument.

Barkuti:

I wonder what cycle life we can expect from all these unknown cells.

good question, these fake Panasonic NCR18650B i got (4) all come in at over 3200mah with highest 3350mah, i originally thought maybe sanyo but they have 3 loped tops and the fakes have 5, curious.