Massive fraud on 18650s in the Littokala Aliexpress stores!

Barkuti · 2020-05-30T12:13:00.000Z

Vapcell has quite decent reputation, but after all it is a rewrapper; with this I mean they can still stick whatever rating they feel comfortable with over any cell.

Different OEMs abide to different in-house rating standards. LG, for example, rates “20A” its HG2 cell despite being slightly lower performing than a 30Q. Samsung tends to be conservative with ratings, whereas cell rewrappers long to stick the biggest figure they find acceptable in their wraps (even if some times it is an outright fabricated and dangerous lie). A 30Q cell, with temperature protection, could be used fine at ≈20A.

P.S.: you can find other providers of 30Q cells besides Vapcell. In the european market, NKON is a well known distributor.

Style · 2020-05-30T19:44:11.000Z

Thanks for the informative reply, Barkuti.
Despite declaring the cells as 20A, do you think the cells are genuine?

About NKON, I used to purchase from his store but he no longer ships to my area.
I read through this thread and also came across Aliya and Lucky store. Are these stores
sell genuine Samsung 30 cells?

Barkuti · 2020-05-30T20:34:09.000Z

Yes, I think the 30Q cells Vapcell sells :-D are genuine.

Aliya's Battery & Lucky Electronics are known to sell brand genuine batteries. This doesn't means you should presume that everything they sell is genuine, they also sell other strange cells like some green wrapped 26650s Panasonic style (take a look: 26650s @ Aliya's Battery, 26650s @ Lucky Electronics) which, as far as I know, are not Panasonic cells. Far from it.

If in doubt, sell any of them a message with whatever question.

Barkuti · 2020-05-30T20:36:53.000Z

Style:

…

About NKON, I used to purchase from his store but he no longer ships to my area.

…

It never hurts to send them a message to see what can be done. O:)

Style · 2020-05-31T12:22:20.000Z

Barkuti:

Aliya’s Battery & Lucky Electronics are known to sell brand genuine batteries. This doesn’t means you should presume that everything they sell is genuine, they also sell other strange cells like some green wrapped 26650s Panasonic style (take a look: which, as far as I know, are not Panasonic cells. Far from it.

If in doubt, sell any of them a message with whatever question.

I’m mostly interested in Samsung 30Q cells. I’m also aiming for 25R and LG HG2.
Hope to get genuine stuff with those cells at least.

I’ll contact them but in my experience with Chinese sellers, they don’t care to lie if it
will make you place an order.

Barkuti:

It never hurts to send them a message to see what can be done. :innocent:

I did try with no avail, it was last year when I asked so maybe things have changed, although I have my doubts about it.

Barkuti · 2020-05-31T16:16:48.000Z

Style:

…

I'll contact them but in my experience with Chinese sellers, they don't care to lie if it
will make you place an order.

…

What we believe matters. If you care to learn something new and good, there's good people everywhere. So communicate, openly and clearly.

Personally I would order from Aliya's Battery or Lucky Electronics if looking for genuine brand cells. They ask the right prices, and besides having a small battery tester with PC software I also know how to identify cells.

Style · 2020-05-31T20:23:40.000Z

I will give Lucky store a shot, as they seems to have better shipping prices to me.

I have OPUS BT-C3100 to charge and check the mAh of my 18650 cells, but I’m more concerned about the discharge current capabilities. I followed this thread and came up
with this device - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32614219909.html

Does the EBD-M05 can tell the discharge rate of a 18650 cell? If it does, I’ll purchase one for myself. Is there any guide on how to use it, and how to verify the parameters are any good?

BlueSwordM · 2020-05-31T22:42:48.000Z

It can’t tell you the current rating of a cell, but you can easily derive rating by the internal resistance measured by the meter.

Barkuti · 2020-05-31T23:53:49.000Z

I personally have an EBD-M05, in fact I bought it from that seller months ago (my review is there and says “Great! A user of this device told me its stock fan… ”). It's a nice small battery tester which supports testing up to 5A/30W. You can find some related information here: ZKE Tech EBD-M05 help. For the software download page for EB devices, tap/click here.

No testing device will tell you the discharge rate of a cell, they're just testing devices. The discharge rate of a cell is mainly determined bearing in mind a maximum allowable cell temperature during discharge, but also relative capacity loss and probably maximum allowable cell voltage drop. Most important is the maximum allowable cell temperature during discharge, being 80°C the usual maximum allowed in datasheets. Lower figures may also be used, tester Henrik now limits his tests to 75°C for example (since his battery holder melted from testing Samsung 30T cells at 40+A, if I'm not mistaken).

In my experience, the few discharge curves I've attained with my EBD-M05 look worse than the ones attained by Henrik. Device calibration and testing conditions matter, of course. Now that the climate is warmer around here, I may give testing to a Murata VTC5A cell I picked from a bag in storage just today for comparison purposes.

Barkuti · 2020-06-01T00:03:57.000Z

BlueSwordM:

It can’t tell you the current rating of a cell, but you can easily derive rating by the internal resistance measured by the meter.

While the EBD-M05 makes such measurement, I'm not sure that the given figures are more or less in accordance with Mooch's ones, or the figure you can get by dividing the voltage delta between two plotted discharge curves at different rates (a little while after the start of the discharge) by the current delta.

Style · 2020-06-16T11:07:55.000Z

So, I just received two packages of Samsung 30Q cells - one from Lucky store, and the other one from a UK eBay seller. I’ll investigate both of the cells with my BT-C3100 to verify what mAh cacpity they have, however, I noticed something suspicious.
I came across the following post on Facebook, that basically says that if the second letter on a Samsung 30Q isn’t 0 - that’s a fake cell.

I checked my cells and got the following results -
Lucky’s cells - all of them have the lettering “L30Q” - there is no 0 on the second letter, might be fake (?).
UK eBay’s cells - all of them have the lettering “G0HZ” - there is 0 on the second letter so they are genuine.
I found that there is a difference in the lettering size as well, the UK eBay seller ones are bigger compared to Lucky’s store.

I also noticed that the insulator White rings are different between both of them.
The UK eBay seller rings seems to be more White compared to Lucky’s store cells.

So what do you think guys?

Style · 2020-06-16T11:09:46.000Z

I just checked with a Samsung 30Q cell that I purchased from nkon.nl in the past, it has the lettering “L0GB” - second letter has 0, it’s legit. I’m starting to have my doubts on Lucky store, thinking about dispute.

Barkuti · 2020-06-16T12:51:10.000Z

Style:

…

I checked my cells and got the following results -

Lucky's cells - all of them have the lettering "L30Q" - +there is no+ 0 on the second letter, might be fake (?).
UK eBay's cells - all of them have the lettering "G0HZ" - +there is+ 0 on the second letter so they are genuine.

…

Style:

I just checked with a Samsung 30Q cell that I purchased from nkon.nl in the past, it has the lettering “L0GB” - second letter has 0, it’s legit. I’m starting to have my doubts on Lucky store, thinking about dispute.

For the love of God Style, don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

That information you dug up from Mooch is quite dated already and, in any case, Mooch is not a Samsung employee, his words aren't gospel.

Layman people really doesn't knows what all these number and letter codes mean. If you want to really know, go ask some engineer at the corresponding Samsung battery cell plant or whatever.

Did you checked where these cells come from? Samsung also has plants in Malaysia, and the cells coming from these plants come marked as SDIEM (the last cell I received from NKON more than a year ago was from Malaysia) in the wrap. Cells from Malaysia plants may have different underwrap codes, and Samsung may be using new codes too!

Obtaining a couple discharge curves and some properly done, accurate internal resistance measurements will certainly reveal a lot more meaningful information than all of that “assumption mumbo-jumbo”.

Take care.

vapcell_Dennis · 2020-06-20T04:40:15.000Z

Style:

Hi, new user here :+1:

Does anyone know if Vapcell store is legit?
I would like to purchase Samsung 30Q from them, however, in their listing I can’t see any reference that they sell Samsung cells. The product page description says “no fake”, but they also write “Vapcell original 18650 3000mAh 20A 30Q”, which makes me wonder if it’s a branded cell of Vapcell or a genuine Samsung cell. Screenshot:

Another thing to be suspicious of, the 30Q cells are 15A and they rate them as 20A.

Ali-express is not allowed to directly sell famous brands such as Samsung LG, because none of our traders has a power of attorney, so we need to mark vapcell in the brand

These five international brands, including molicel, guarantee the original

Don’t sell a fake battery

30q, Hg2 and vtc6 have similar performance, and we generally think they can discharge at 20A

30Q 20A discharge ，Performance over Hg2

Style · 2020-06-21T07:49:33.000Z

Barkuti:

Obtaining a couple discharge curves and some properly done, accurate internal resistance measurements will certainly reveal a lot more meaningful information than all of that “assumption mumbo-jumbo”.

I did few discharge and charging tests to the Lucky’s store cells, I got results of around 3,050 mAh, so it’s look promising here.
As for the internal resistance test, I only have the Opus BT-C3100 (v2.2) for doing these tests. I got results going from 37 to 62. Are these considered as good results?
What is the “best” and most budget friendly device that will provide more accurate and reliable internal resistance measurements?

Lightbringer · 2020-06-21T17:22:24.000Z

For an Opus, yeah. For me, <100 and >100 are what separate “good” from “bad”. As much as I like my Ope, it’s all over the place as far as resistance measurements. Same cell, untouched, multiple tests in quick succession but trying to not even breathe in its direction and disturb anything, and readings will be jumping around all over the place.

Style · 2021-01-29T22:10:08.000Z

Hello guys, are any of you facing some issues with ordering 18650 from the trusted Aliexpress sellers?

Seems like Lucky store is not able to ship to my country any more (I purchased from him on June 2020,) Aliya store is
not selling products anymore, QueenBattery shipping is very high, and Vapcell cells prices are on the raise.

Would love to hear how is the situation on your side guys.
Thanks.

Barkuti · 2021-01-30T00:43:23.000Z

Style:

Hello guys, are any of you facing some issues with ordering 18650 from the trusted Aliexpress sellers?

…

The issue is about batteries in general, cylindrical cells namely (prismatic cells are a lot less affected). I've noticed many sellers adding shipping surcharges to their battery sales. I can still find good offers from other sellers, though, I just have to dig a little deeper.

Style · 2021-01-30T16:10:27.000Z

Barkuti:

I can still find good offers from other sellers, though, I just have to dig a little deeper.

Can you please share their store names/links? Thanks!

Barkuti · 2021-01-30T16:50:31.000Z

I do not have “usual stores” for batteries Style, I always look for best deals.

This ad from Shop5040275, for example, shows a good combined product + shipping cost for high capacity 18650 cells; If you compare it with this other ad from GlobalPower, the price for just a few pieces is quite a bit lower. Needless to say they aren't NCR18650B cells, they are some high capacity cell from one of the big chinese li-ion manufacturers.